Opinion of a non-cyclist
 

Hi,
I'm all for cycling--A close relative was the first Canadian to ride from the US west coast to Ontario, following railroad tracks. I recall his stories of "riding the century" in Canadian dirt roads, etc.
I'm a senior citizen living in a N. California city, on a street many cyclists use to ride to the back roads. Frequently when sweeping pine needles off the sidewalk, or trimming tree branches, a cyclist will whiz by me before I know he/she is there. On a narrow & busy street, I know they can't swerve into the street to have clearance from where I'm working, so...
This is more a courtesy issue than a safety one, but I don't want tree trimmings to fall on someone's head, or sweep pine needles into someone's bare legs when I don't see or hear them coming. If bells or horns are considered too lame or whatever, how about a shout to me to look out when I have my back to the direction you're coming from?
Thanks,
Ray Mac
fud2468@att.net

In an ideal world, everyone would use their turn signals, say "excuse me" or not use the parking spaces for the disabled if they're not entitled to them. Cyclists as a group probably follow the norm of society as a whole with some members being more courteous than others. For myself, I try to be sensitive to the type of situation you mentioned, but I know I don't comply 100% of the time. Your post is a reminder to me to try and think about the non-cyclist's point of view more often.

Usually, if I'm about to pass close by to a pedestrian, I will yell out "on your <position>" or if they're turned away from me, I will yell out "behind you". Like Tom Pedale said, sometimes I too forget and sometimes others forget too and sometimes there are just inconsiderate cyclists.

What the hell does turn indicators or handicapped parking have to do with this?

STOP, wait until you are acknowledged by the pedestrian, continue.

We are talking about someone who is standing in the street. On the side walk, get off your bike, walk to the street, ride.

If you need to yell at a pedestrian to get his attention. STOP and wait for him to acknowledge you, then pass safely.

I think the common statement, "On your left (right)" is very confusing to pedestrians and even to beginning cyclists. It gives no information as to what to do next to the hearer. Sort of:

Bicyclist: "On your left."

Pedestrian: "So what?"

How about a "Passing left" or "Passing on your left." which at least gives an indication to the hearer that perhaps they should move right or at least stay the course.

I remember a couple of years back yelling, "On your left" to a neophyte (of course, I didn't know that at the time) bicyclist, who, in response to my command of "left" simply kept moving further to the left, causing me to have to go out in the grass to get around her. I later learned she was just learning to bike, and no one had explained "on your left" to her.

In regards to the above:

I apologize for the bikers in your area. How about getting one or two of those orange traffic cones and placing them in your street so that the area in which you are working is "protected?" I think most sports stores carry a small version of those cones for marking playing areas, and it might save you and/or the biker a nasty accident. The cost would be small.

Thanks for the input. I am pretty careful, but will keep it in mind.

In the meantime, get a bike and join us. I am also a "senior citizen."

I've never had too much of a problem with someone misinterpretting "on your left" but I'll give the "passing left" thing a try to see if I get better results.

Right on DFox, I say "bicycle, may I pass?"" and stay behind the hikers until I see that they heard me, usually indicated by a move to the right. If they are already to the right as if anticipating cyclists or joggers I might just slow to their speed, say "bicycle" and pass safely before the walkers show that they heard me.

What the hell does turn indicators or handicapped parking have to do with this?


Since the gentleman who started this thread is a non-cyclist, I was only using descriptions of types of inconsiderate behavior by non-cyclists (eg motorists, pedestrians) to point out that in any group be it cyclists or otherwise, there are those who act responsibly and those who don't.

I did like the suggestion re: the safety cones...

Ray, I'm with you 100%.

I don't ride on the sidewalk, but in the street. Even there, when pedestrians cross illegally and unsafely (j-walking,) I am careful not to whiz by them before they know I'm there. It's not only discourteous, it's unsafe. A pedestrian could walk straight into the path of a cyclist, causing both the cyclist and pedestrian serious injury.

In my opinion, cyclists should stay in the street, where they belong. If they want to hop up on the sidewalk, they should travel at pedestrian speeds (5 mph.) and let everyone know when they are approaching.

Confusion exists because many cyclists simply don't know where they are supposed to ride.

1) Ray -- thanks much for your post. The views of rational noncyclists, such as yourself, can add much to our forum. When one of my neighbors, who lives on the inside corner of a blind intersection, trims his hedge, he deploys a few orange cones to deploy all traffic to a safe trajectory. Please not also that a properly trained conscientious lawful vehicular cyclist would probably have no conflict with your streetside activities, and likewise would give you no cause for alarm.
2) Pete -- I'm with you, as well, but I would add that confusion exists also because many motorists do not understand where cyclists are supposed to ride.

s
Denver fox is right. On the bike path, I'll often say "Excuse me" when passing roller bladers, pedestrians (who shouldn't be there anyways), or non-roadies. Roadies know what 'on your left' means, but most people don't. It means nothing to them. However, everyone understands "excuse me". ALthough I wonder these days because people seem to have such rotten manners. However, at least it means more than on your left. OF course, there are plenty of roadies who whizz by without announcing themselves, and that annoys me because they really should know better. Unfortunately,some still don't but most are mindful of others. THe ones I find are the worst are inexperienced bike riders, the casual kind who just ramble around and don't pay attention, especially the older hippie types on beatup old bikes. I see them around here and they still seem to think that rules are for the establishment ,so they ride on sidewalks, or down the middle of roads the wrong way, not looking, etc. And then there are young kids who not only ride on sidewalks, but ride really fast. I wonder why their parents arent' teaching THEM to be mindful of others.

A bicycle is a vehicle. As a vehicle they are prohibited from using the sidewalk. Some local ordinances will dispute that fact.
After one of our kids, on a bicycle, was hit by a police car coming out of a blind driveway, he was ordered to ride on the sidewalk (the police car had to be towed away). Kid had bruises from banging his knee and bike into fender + bike damage.
Researching the local ordinances, found two ordinances on the books: One prohibited use of a bicycle on the road; the other prohibited the use of a bicycle on the sidewalk!
City would not pay for bike damages. After showing them their conflicting laws, and promising a picketline and TV cameras, they paid up.
See if your city can put up a sign stating 'share the road' to give uninformed riders a hint.
And politeness and proper road manners are a 2-way street.
Thanks for presenting your concerns!

To the original poster, I'm a bit confused and would like some clarification of your exact concern. The way I initially read it, the situation was that cyclists were actually on the roadway but were far enough to the right that they might brush you as you're standing on the sidewalk (possibly at the edge) sweeping pine needles. Is this a correct interpretation of the situation? Other posters' comments have also led me to believe that one may interpret your description as that of cyclists passing by you while riding on the sidewalk to avoid a busy street. I'm just looking to establish a clear picture of what's actually happening.

I was not talking about anyone riding on the sidewalk--was referring to my vigorously sweeping sidewalk, propelling pine needles several feet into someone I happen to have my back to. I watch and listen for vehicles, but I often don't see bikes in time, and can't hear them coming. Cones??--would make cyclists veer farther out in the street & be more dangerous. It's already dangerous out there. Just trying to watch out for my fellow man. Thanks--I will now listen for "on your left"..Ray Mac.

Yeah, as a pedestrian that and "behind you" and such always bugged me - after a moment of being startled I'd flounder a bit wondering if I was expected to go a particular direction, and which direction that was. Actually I've always had to stop a moment to determine right/left - my brain never got wired for right/left somehow. I just use "excuse me" or the bell myself, since passing is always instinctively on the left in the US. Preferably the (soft/polite) bell. I suspect not everyone will have the same preferences though. You can't please all of the people all of the time.

bk

If the bike is in the street and you're on the sidewalk, with no chance for a collision, I don't think anybody is going to expect to announce themselves. Even if we don't observe you sweeping, getting pelted with pine needles (well, at least not at eye-level) is the least of our worries.

bkr

Okay, that's what I figured initially. I think that most cyclists wouldn't shout a warning because they figure that they're on the street and you're on the sidewalk and the chances of a collision are pretty slim as it's unlikely a pedestrian would step out into the street without looking for traffic. I suppose it could still happen though and a cautious cyclist should issue a warning that they're making a close approach. I also don't think that they view flung pine needles or pine cones as a possible hazard or maybe they're not looking out for it and/or not seeing it. As such, the suggestion to establish a work-perimeter using traffic cones is a good one and will alert anyone approaching the area of possible hazards and to take appropriate action.

I find it remarkable that someone would be so sensitive and considerate to others as to be concerned over the chance that he may fling pine needles into an unsuspecting persons path.

I say don't worry, I am sure that most cyclists would see you there and call out if they were concerned about being in harm's way by either hitting you or being hit by you or pine needles.

Try wearing something bright, even tie some streamers to your broom to make it more visible. Better yet put a cool, expensive bike on the curb and all cyclists will slow down to check it out.

It is sad though that some of us bikers out in the real world can be rude at times, even to each other.

Oh! :D Sorry. (I'd better learn to read more carefully...)

In that case, try sweeping facing traffic.

:)

That a bike is a vehicle does NOT automatically exclude one from riding on a sidewalk. In my state, MI, riding on a sidewalk is an option for a biker --unless the rider is 12(14?) or under, in which case they are REQUIRED to keep to sidewalks. And there are requirements that come with riding sidewalks, such as having to inform pedestrians of your approach, and yielding to them. Our poorly-written law also mandates audible devices (horns, bells). For some reason, our own voices are not sufficient.

Road-side paths --so-called "bike paths"-- are also optional for of-age riders, unless use is required by local ordinance, and the path is specifically designated for bicycle use. This is another common area of misunderstanding. Many believe that if a path is present it must be used by cyclists. Wrong.

And, for what it's worth, even some of our local (county) law officers don't know what our states vehicle code allows cyclists to do. One "dippity" recently told me that the law requires me to stay to the right-edge of the roadway, and therefore I am NOT allowed to use the left-turn lane I was standing in at the time. Yet, our county force even has its own bike-mounted squad! ...I wonder what those bike-officers know about the code.

Thanks for sweeping! I had my worst crash ever, and another that was a bit comical,
due to losing traction on wet leaves. Those cyclists should be thanking you.

Whoa buddy. Turn signals and handicap parking was a good illustration, IMO. ;) Get over it.

Riding on the sidewalk legal? Even required? That's a new one to me. But it's still a bad idea. Sidewalks are too narrrow for bikes and pedestrians to coexist. And it's dangerous. You are much more at risk of getting hit at intersections and driveways on a sidewalk than on a street because cars aren't looking for you there.

In summary, riding on the sidewalk is both dangerous and a pain.

I think both the cyclist and the original poster bear some responsibility. Both need to do a better job of watching what's going on around them.

Riding on the sidewalk is indeed legal in some areas, such as Florida. I agree it can be dangerous and prefer to ride on the roads myself, especially after my last accident on a sidewalk, but the road has just as much potential for danger. If you ride the sidewalk and you stop at intersections to look for cars and keep an eye on driveways then you are not likely to get hit, in my opinion the danger comes from the sidewalk itself. Cars are not going to look for you, you must look for them.

In general the point of this thread is to gain awareness of this guys sweeping habits but I sincerely doubt that the bikers in question are going to stumble onto this thread on this particular forum and go "hey, I'm the guy they are talking about, better change my ways."
If the cyclist does not give you the courtesy of announcing their presence then don't worry about sweeping needles into their path, they have it coming and likely the only way they will learn is if they make a painful mistake.

Um, isn't sweeping the pine needles into the street simply moving the mess from one point to another? You can't really depend on street sweepers to be frequent enough to get rid of them reliably. How about sweeping them into a pile and putting them in the bin or a compost heap?

That said, stuff swept with a broom into my path wouldn't bother me. It's those guys with the whipper-snippers working close to the road that are the hazard. Stuff flying out of those really stings the legs.