Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Advocacy & Safety
Reload this Page >

i don't ride as far to the right as possible

Notices
Advocacy & Safety Cyclists should expect and demand safe accommodation on every public road, just as do all other users. Discuss your bicycle advocacy and safety concerns here.

i don't ride as far to the right as possible

Old 10-31-09, 08:19 AM
  #1  
pdedes
ka maté ka maté ka ora
Thread Starter
 
pdedes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: wessex
Posts: 4,423

Bikes: breezer venturi - red novo bosberg - red, pedal force cg1 - red, neuvation f-100 - da, devinci phantom - xt, miele piste - miche/campy, bianchi reparto corse sbx, concorde squadra tsx - da, miele team issue sl - ultegra

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 25 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
i don't ride as far to the right as possible

if i'm solo, i'll keep about a meter between my bike and the curb. keeps me out of the debris, forces most drivers to make a definitive move when passing me. here in Ontario, the Highway Traffic Act states that slower moving vehicles must keep to the right as far as practicable. in a letter to me from the director of the Ministry of Transportation, "the official driver's handbook advises that cyclists may use a whole lane for safety reasons, if necessary, and that they should not compromise their safety for the convenience of motorists behind them".
pdedes is offline  
Old 10-31-09, 08:26 AM
  #2  
botto 
.
 
botto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 40,375
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 25 Times in 11 Posts
Originally Posted by pdedes View Post
i don't ride as far to the right as possible
nor should you.

oh, btw - can this be moved to A&S before the psychos chime in?
botto is offline  
Old 10-31-09, 08:31 AM
  #3  
Servo888
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: SE, Michigan
Posts: 518

Bikes: k2 Zed 3.0

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 1 Post
I do the same thing; except for when a vehicle is coming up on me. Then I pull to the right, as far as possible, and let them pass. There are also situations when (ie a trucker) a vehical cannot safely pass, that's when I pull over, let them pass, and continue on. Since I've started doing this, the number of people yelling / honking at me, has been reduced significantly.
Servo888 is offline  
Old 10-31-09, 08:32 AM
  #4  
EventServices
Announcer
 
EventServices's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Detroit's North Side.
Posts: 5,108

Bikes: More than I need, really.

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 39 Post(s)
Liked 36 Times in 13 Posts
Michigan vehicle says "as far to the right as practicable".

And IBTCP (in before the chiming psychos)

Last edited by EventServices; 10-31-09 at 11:26 AM. Reason: Spelling. Duh.
EventServices is offline  
Old 10-31-09, 08:41 AM
  #5  
RedWhiteandRed
Bikesman
 
RedWhiteandRed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Northern Clime
Posts: 364

Bikes: Giant Seek 1 IGH; Specialized Roubaix On Order

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
In Ontario it is as far to the right as practicable whilst avoiding potholes, storm grates and obstacles. This means in the middle of most lanes.

Sgt. Hugh Smith of the Toronto Police gave a great talk on the subject explaining that cyclists have a right to the lane and the portion of the lane they choose to ride in is up to them (us.)

The only time I have remotely dangerous encounters is when riding too far to the right - if you are too far to the right people will do the 'squeeze or brush past' but in the middle will assert that you are vehicle and they will pass when it is safe for them to do so.

You drive your car and I will drive mine.
RedWhiteandRed is offline  
Old 10-31-09, 08:48 AM
  #6  
patentcad
Peloton Shelter Dog
 
patentcad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Chester, NY
Posts: 90,508

Bikes: 2017 Scott Foil, 2016 Scott Addict SL, 2018 Santa Cruz Blur CC MTB

Mentioned: 74 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1140 Post(s)
Liked 25 Times in 19 Posts
Originally Posted by pdedes View Post
if i'm solo, i'll keep about a meter between my bike and the curb. keeps me out of the debris, forces most drivers to make a definitive move when passing me.
To each his own; I have managed to ride 100,000+ miles within 1-2' of the edge of the road without a problem. I don't want drivers to make any 'definitive moves' other than NOT HITTING ME. I hear what you are saying, but my feeling is that the 'definitive move' might very well be the driver rear ending the cyclist. It's a gray area: depends very much on the road, the condition of the shoulder (if there is one), but I try to stay as far to the right as I can, and it works for me.

Do you have the 'right' to 3' on the side of the road? Yes, you do. The police will console your widow that you died obeying the law.
patentcad is offline  
Old 10-31-09, 08:54 AM
  #7  
Spreggy
King of the Plukers
 
Spreggy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: On the bus.
Posts: 891
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Liked 5 Times in 4 Posts
Besides taking some lane when needed, that little smooth section around 6" wide right next to the white line offers the best road smoothness, and has much less flat-causing tiny debris.
Spreggy is offline  
Old 10-31-09, 08:58 AM
  #8  
botto 
.
 
botto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 40,375
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 25 Times in 11 Posts
Originally Posted by Spreggy View Post
Besides taking some lane when needed, that little smooth section around 6" wide right next to the white line offers the best road smoothness, and has much less flat-causing tiny debris.
yep. far too much crap on the shoulder, which is one of many reasons why i don't ride hugging the side of the road.
botto is offline  
Old 10-31-09, 10:29 AM
  #9  
riff
Senior Member
 
riff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: TO
Posts: 432
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by patentcad View Post
To each his own; I have managed to ride 100,000+ miles within 1-2' of the edge of the road without a problem. I don't want drivers to make any 'definitive moves' other than NOT HITTING ME. I hear what you are saying, but my feeling is that the 'definitive move' might very well be the driver rear ending the cyclist. It's a gray area: depends very much on the road, the condition of the shoulder (if there is one), but I try to stay as far to the right as I can, and it works for me.

Do you have the 'right' to 3' on the side of the road? Yes, you do. The police will console your widow that you died obeying the law.
I WISH I could do this. I've ridden in enough centuries in the US to see that road quality is far superior to what we have up here. I live not far from Steeles Ave, which has been voted the worst road in Ontario for the umpteenth year in a row. Debris, sewer grates, potholes big enough to swallow children... If I tried to ride near the curb, I would constantly have to be swerving out 2-3 feet to avoid crash-inducing obstacles. This isn't just stuff that would dent a rim.

So yes, there are lots of stretches where I will ride 2-3 feet out from the curb. Once I get up to the country roads, I'm more than happy to be just left of the white line.
riff is offline  
Old 10-31-09, 11:32 AM
  #10  
patentcad
Peloton Shelter Dog
 
patentcad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Chester, NY
Posts: 90,508

Bikes: 2017 Scott Foil, 2016 Scott Addict SL, 2018 Santa Cruz Blur CC MTB

Mentioned: 74 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1140 Post(s)
Liked 25 Times in 19 Posts
On country roads here I am generally to the RIGHT of the white line, where possible, and it usually is.
patentcad is offline  
Old 10-31-09, 11:37 AM
  #11  
Atol
Senior Member
 
Atol's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 639

Bikes: CAAD9-6

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I'm a real man. I take up the left lane.
Atol is offline  
Old 10-31-09, 11:44 AM
  #12  
patentcad
Peloton Shelter Dog
 
patentcad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Chester, NY
Posts: 90,508

Bikes: 2017 Scott Foil, 2016 Scott Addict SL, 2018 Santa Cruz Blur CC MTB

Mentioned: 74 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1140 Post(s)
Liked 25 Times in 19 Posts
Originally Posted by Atol View Post
I'm a dead man. I take up the left lane.
Fixed.
patentcad is offline  
Old 10-31-09, 11:45 AM
  #13  
Patriot
Faith-Vigilance-Service
 
Patriot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Port Orchard, WA
Posts: 8,330

Bikes: Trinity, Paradisus, Centurion, Mongoose, Trek

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
It's possible to ride in the gravel, or even the muck down in the ditch.


Won't help your pace much though.
__________________
President, OCP
--"Will you have some tea... at the theatre with me?"--
Patriot is offline  
Old 10-31-09, 11:46 AM
  #14  
riff
Senior Member
 
riff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: TO
Posts: 432
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by patentcad View Post
On country roads here I am generally to the RIGHT of the white line, where possible, and it usually is.
I've been lucky enough to get a lot of riding in the Finger Lakes and upstate NY area... The generosity of the shoulders always delights and amazes me!

This is a typical country road here... Hence why I ride just left of the line...

riff is offline  
Old 10-31-09, 11:48 AM
  #15  
Atol
Senior Member
 
Atol's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 639

Bikes: CAAD9-6

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by riff View Post
I've been lucky enough to get a lot of riding in the Finger Lakes and upstate NY area... The generosity of the shoulders always delights and amazes me!

This is a typical country road here... Hence why I ride just left of the line...

Theres a perfectly good bike lane between the two yellow lines.
Atol is offline  
Old 10-31-09, 11:48 AM
  #16  
cyclezealot
Senior Member
 
cyclezealot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Fallbrook,Calif./Palau del Vidre, France
Posts: 13,225

Bikes: Klein QP, Fuji touring, Surly Cross Check, BCH City bike

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1482 Post(s)
Liked 73 Times in 64 Posts
calif state law says the same. Last time I read it's handbook..Often , The curb is full of debris and potholes. No place for stability. But, tell that to passing motorists.. They think you are not on the far right, don't be surprised if someone should attempt to force you further to the right.
__________________
Pray for the Dead and Fight like Hell for the Living










^ Since January 1, 2012
cyclezealot is offline  
Old 10-31-09, 11:51 AM
  #17  
DataJunkie
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 14,277
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
I ride wherever is safest.
DataJunkie is offline  
Old 10-31-09, 11:55 AM
  #18  
botto 
.
 
botto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 40,375
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 25 Times in 11 Posts
countdown to A&S starts now...
botto is offline  
Old 10-31-09, 01:59 PM
  #19  
clausen
Senior Member
 
clausen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Northern Ontario
Posts: 3,659

Bikes: Colnago Master XL, Bianchi Via Nirone 7, Marinoni Fango

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by riff View Post
I've been lucky enough to get a lot of riding in the Finger Lakes and upstate NY area... The generosity of the shoulders always delights and amazes me!

This is a typical country road here... Hence why I ride just left of the line...

Ah... I miss those nice roads. As for Steeles it's bad, but come up North it would just blend in, we just don't have the population to add up the votes.
clausen is offline  
Old 10-31-09, 03:18 PM
  #20  
Old Town
Sailing Cyclist
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Key West, FL
Posts: 408

Bikes: Kona mountain and hybrid. Other assorted junk.

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Atol View Post
Theres a perfectly good bike lane between the two yellow lines.
Atol is my new hero. Hey, the guy makes me laugh.
Old Town is offline  
Old 10-31-09, 09:01 PM
  #21  
Coaster
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 63
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I ride mostly on two lane country roads here in Maryland. I found when I rode as close to the white line as possible, that many drivers would, percieving an open lane with a bicyclist at the edge of it, zoom past like I wasn't there. In fact, you could hear them as they accelerated to pass, that didn't give a safe feeling. Now, I ride about two feet to the left side of the white line, keeping my ears open and my eyes on my rearview mirror. When I see a car approaching, they slow down b/c they now see an obstruction in their lane. Their next impulse is to move to the left to go around and I move to the right as they are passing giving a much more comfortable distance between us. Could this be a problem? Yes, with some drivers who don't give a **** what's in their way, but those drivers won't give you any consideration as long as you are on the same road they're on regardless of where you are. (And falling off the edge of the road and possible landing right in front of them is not my idea of a good place to be).
Rich
Coaster is offline  
Old 10-31-09, 09:26 PM
  #22  
wheel
Senior Member
 
wheel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Crystal MN
Posts: 2,147
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Way to many roads out there. If you did that on this road Hwy 60 AZ you would have to pull over every .5 mile. Az law of 5 or more.
https://www.youtube.com/user/bodybait#p/u/27/guSDgFGIOAE
wheel is offline  
Old 10-31-09, 09:50 PM
  #23  
Wogster
Senior Member
 
Wogster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Toronto (again) Ontario, Canada
Posts: 6,937

Bikes: Old Bike: 1975 Raleigh Delta, New Bike: 2004 Norco Bushpilot

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times in 5 Posts
Originally Posted by pdedes View Post
if i'm solo, i'll keep about a meter between my bike and the curb. keeps me out of the debris, forces most drivers to make a definitive move when passing me. here in Ontario, the Highway Traffic Act states that slower moving vehicles must keep to the right as far as practicable. in a letter to me from the director of the Ministry of Transportation, "the official driver's handbook advises that cyclists may use a whole lane for safety reasons, if necessary, and that they should not compromise their safety for the convenience of motorists behind them".
Actually if you read the relevant section of the Ontario Highway Traffic Act, it says that you must ride within the right HALF of the road, allowing space that someone can pass on the left. The fact that cyclists usually ride within the right half of the lane, is as a courtesy, to allow faster vehicles to pass without needing to completely go into the left lane. The onus is on the person passing to make sure they can do so safely, if that means needing to slow to 15km/h and staying behind a bicycle for 30km, then that's just the way it is.

I find 1m from the curb is good, and that many drivers will give you about the same on the other side.
Wogster is offline  
Old 10-31-09, 10:25 PM
  #24  
Digital_Cowboy
Senior Member
 
Digital_Cowboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Tampa/St. Pete, Florida
Posts: 9,352

Bikes: Specialized Hardrock Mountain (Stolen); Giant Seek 2 (Stolen); Diamondback Ascent mid 1980 - 1997

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 62 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Originally Posted by pdedes View Post
if I'm solo, I'll keep about a meter between my bike and the curb. keeps me out of the debris, forces most drivers to make a definitive move when passing me. here in Ontario, the Highway Traffic Act states that slower moving vehicles must keep to the right as far as practicable. in a letter to me from the director of the Ministry of Transportation, "the official driver's handbook advises that cyclists may use a whole lane for safety reasons, if necessary, and that they should not compromise their safety for the convenience of motorists behind them".
I can't find it right now, but I know that I've read at the Florida Bicycle Association web site that they recommend staying 3'/1yd/1 meter away from the curb. For the same reasons that you noted.
Digital_Cowboy is offline  
Old 11-01-09, 05:58 AM
  #25  
DX-MAN
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 4,788
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Yup, that's the biggest flaw in the FRAP laws -- lazy motorists who read what they want to read, IF they read it at all.

Indiana has FRAP -- and recently let an amendment die in legislature that would have corrected a lot of loopholes in bike traffic law, and would have added the 3' requirement. Not that it would have mattered, simply because half the drivers here are below MINIMUM intelligence, not just AVERAGE intelligence.
DX-MAN is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2023 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.