Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Advocacy & Safety
Reload this Page >

Another fatal cycling hazard (and it's not a vehicle)

Notices
Advocacy & Safety Cyclists should expect and demand safe accommodation on every public road, just as do all other users. Discuss your bicycle advocacy and safety concerns here.

Another fatal cycling hazard (and it's not a vehicle)

Old 11-16-09, 08:32 AM
  #1  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Jim from Boston's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 7,384
Mentioned: 49 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 800 Post(s)
Liked 218 Times in 171 Posts
Another fatal cycling hazard (and it's not a vehicle)

In the Sunday Boston Globe, 11/15/09, in the Metro Section was this story, “Family seeks answers in death of cyclist” Here are some excerpts:

(c) The Boston Globe Nov 15, 2009

At 71 years old, retired Newton educator Robert Zeeb wasn't slowing down.
Zeeb was training to ride his bicycle across the country. Every other day, Zeeb would ride his bicycle 60 miles in trips that took him from Newton to Concord, Sudbury, Weston, or Boston, and he was pushing himself to ride farther in preparation for his coast-to-coast ride in June.

"He figured he was going to have to go about 80 miles a day," said Zeeb's son, Noel. "It was about the act itself, for him. He wasn't a racer."

But on Monday, during a ride to Arlington, Robert Zeeb crashed his bicycle along Route 2. He died from his injuries the following day.

Witnesses told State Police that Zeeb crashed along the westbound side of Route 2, east of Exit 60, at 10:22 a.m. -not far from the Alewife T station. A witness told police that it appeared as if Zeeb's bicycle struck a hole for an electrical box in the ground and that no other vehicles were involved in the accident.

Zeeb's family is upset the hole wasn't covered and is looking for answers.
"I'm going to need to talk to them to see why that [cover] wasn't there," Noel Zeeb said yesterday.

One witness told State Police the hole was filled with leaves and its cover was several feet away, said David Procopio, a State Police spokesman.

The area in which Zeeb crashed is a partially paved sidewalk beside Route 2. It falls under the jurisdiction of the state Highway Department, now a division of the Massachusetts Department of Transportation, which responded to the scene and replaced the cover for the electrical box, Procopio said….

Noel Zeeb said his father was very careful on his bicycle and always wore a helmet. But Noel Zeeb said he doesn't think his father saw any danger ahead on his ride Monday.

"He had no idea," he said. "He didn't do anything wrong."
This Saturday, I accidentally rode into a puddle about 30 feet long and 4 to 6 inches deep. I am aware of warnings about riding in deep puddles that may mask deep holes, and now be aware of this additional seasonal hazard of piles of leaves.
Jim from Boston is offline  
Old 11-16-09, 08:42 AM
  #2  
Senior Member
 
Speedo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Boston Area
Posts: 1,998

Bikes: Univega Gran Turismo, Guerciotti, Bridgestone MB2, Bike Friday New World Tourist, Serotta Ti

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
He must have been on the path that runs on the shore of Spy Pond. I guess that, literally, along Rt. 2 describes that as well, but the thought of a bicycle on Rt. 2 at that point was a little jarring.

I just heard that a friend went down on some wet leaves and broke his leg. Let's be careful out there!

Speedo
Speedo is offline  
Old 11-16-09, 12:06 PM
  #3  
24-Speed Machine
 
Chris516's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Wash. Grove, MD
Posts: 6,058

Bikes: 2003 Specialized Allez 24-Speed Road Bike

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by Jim from Boston
In the Sunday Boston Globe, 11/15/09, in the Metro Section was this story, “Family seeks answers in death of cyclist” Here are some excerpts:



This Saturday, I accidentally rode into a puddle about 30 feet long and 4 to 6 inches deep. I am aware of warnings about riding in deep puddles that may mask deep holes, and now be aware of this additional seasonal hazard of piles of leaves.
This story, reminded me of when I did something very similar. I was on the sidewalk, at the time it happened. I had gone on the sidewalk because, I wanted to avoid the traffic on that road. Anyway, I was biking along, when, I suddenly ran into the concrete base of, where the traffic signal pole had previously stood. When they moved the pole, they did not get rid of the previous concrete base. I told the county's DOT and told them what happened. I told them I insisted on being reimbursed for the damages to my bike. I even took pictures with my digital camera of the concrete base and, sent them along with photos of the damage to my bike and, a copy of the bill. I hounded them, until I got them to cough up, what they owed me, for their negligence.
Chris516 is offline  
Old 11-16-09, 12:30 PM
  #4  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Jim from Boston's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 7,384
Mentioned: 49 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 800 Post(s)
Liked 218 Times in 171 Posts
Originally Posted by Chris516
This story, reminded me of when I did something very similar. I was on the sidewalk, at the time it happened. I had gone on the sidewalk because, I wanted to avoid the traffic on that road. Anyway, I was biking along, when, I suddenly ran into the concrete base of, where the traffic signal pole had previously stood. When they moved the pole, they did not get rid of the previous concrete base. I told the county's DOT and told them what happened. I told them I insisted on being reimbursed for the damages to my bike. I even took pictures with my digital camera of the concrete base and, sent them along with photos of the damage to my bike and, a copy of the bill. I hounded them, until I got them to cough up, what they owed me, for their negligence.
A similar thing happened to me too.I ran into a short post left in a sidewalk while trying also to be safer. I didn't see it partly because it was in shade, and I just entered the shade from bright sunlight. I fell pretty hard, but without severe damage. I can't recall if I made a report or not because I was just visiting that area, but it was sometime later removed.
Jim from Boston is offline  
Old 11-16-09, 02:23 PM
  #5  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Knoxville, TN
Posts: 505
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
One thing I've learned is that when there are leaves all over the ground, that it's best to take things a bit on the slow side. Downshift a bit if need be to maintain the slower speed. Leaves themselves can be slick, not to mention cover up other hazards and so on. And if one's traveling slower, then one is better off in the case of a crash, not to mention it gives more reaction time and such to avoid crashes to begin with.
Ngchen is offline  
Old 11-16-09, 02:35 PM
  #6  
call me T.J.
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 361

Bikes: trek 820

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I can just see some of you on a mountain bike trail. "I was riding along with this root jumped out and grabbed my wheel! I got right on the phone with the DOT (department of trails ) and let them know that I was coming after them for damages!"


When the heck did "wow, that sucked, let's not do that again!" turn into "WHO CAN I BLAME AND SUE?!?!?!?"



I heard a radio spot one time, the DJ had just had a friend visit them from (somewhere in Europe, one of the Scandinavian countries IIRC). While visiting, the friend was amazed at all of the tape and cones and signs surrounding a construction pit. The DJ explained that it was to keep people from falling into the hole, and to provide some protection to the company if someone DID fall into the hole.

The friend was amazed. He said that where he came from, people watched where they were going. And if you did happen to fall into a big pit in the middle of the street, you were embarassed because you'd just WALKED INTO A BIG PIT IN THE MIDDLE OF THE STREET.


If someone stretches a piano wire across a trail, or intentionally dumps debris in front of you -- THAT's negligent. The rest of this is just you complaining that the world isn't all soft and squishy.
tjwarren is offline  
Old 11-16-09, 02:49 PM
  #7  
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Posts: 28

Bikes: 2003 Specialized Rockhopper

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by tjwarren
If someone stretches a piano wire across a trail, or intentionally dumps debris in front of you -- THAT's negligent. The rest of this is just you complaining that the world isn't all soft and squishy.
I'm pretty sure that's not negligent, but malicious. Negligence covers things that aren't planned to be hazardous (like pot holes or debris).
Jehannum is offline  
Old 11-16-09, 03:05 PM
  #8  
Cycle Year Round
 
CB HI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Honolulu, HI
Posts: 13,644
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1316 Post(s)
Liked 92 Times in 59 Posts
Originally Posted by tjwarren
I can just see some of you on a mountain bike trail. "I was riding along with this root jumped out and grabbed my wheel! I got right on the phone with the DOT (department of trails ) and let them know that I was coming after them for damages!"


When the heck did "wow, that sucked, let's not do that again!" turn into "WHO CAN I BLAME AND SUE?!?!?!?"
So T.J., you consider mountain bike trails to be adequate design criteria for our roadways and sidewalks?
CB HI is offline  
Old 11-16-09, 03:14 PM
  #9  
call me T.J.
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 361

Bikes: trek 820

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
It just seems that "negligence" has become a catch-all for "I can't be bothered to look out for myself, so I'm going to make whomever I can blame for my misfortune miserable because I think they're 'negligent'".

Want to sell a product? Better be insured against negligence! Want to lead a group ride? Better be insured against negligence! Hey, this peanut butter has peanuts in it, and I have to tell you about it so you can't sue me for negligence!

Every time I hear of a "negligence" suit, I think the collective intelligence of this country dips a little bit.


You never hear of any *real* negligence. IBM spent forty years dumping chemicals into the Hudson River. They weren't "negligent", they were just doing good business, so you and I have to pay to clean it up. But sell a bottle of aspirin without saying "DO NOT USE: if you are allergic to aspirin" (I'm looking at the aspirin bottle right now), and that's negligent.

I personally know several people who won't shovel their sidewalks in the winter. Because if you usually shovel your sidewalk but don't one time, you're negligent if someone gets hurt, but if you never shovel your sidewalk it's simply an act of god.


IMO, negligence should be for those things which could reasonably be harmful (but you willfully neglect anyway), not those things that some idiot manages to hurt himself on.
tjwarren is offline  
Old 11-16-09, 03:14 PM
  #10  
call me T.J.
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 361

Bikes: trek 820

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
CB: No, I realize that sidewalks and roads have bumps and irregularities, and I don't get upset when I find one.
tjwarren is offline  
Old 11-16-09, 03:26 PM
  #11  
Blocking your fire exits
 
coffeecake's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 641
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by tjwarren
CB: No, I realize that sidewalks and roads have bumps and irregularities, and I don't get upset when I find one.
Your agenda notwithstanding, I think the OP's situation was more than a mere "irregularity" - it was a hole deep enough to warrant a cover. Sure there are tons of people willing to sue McDonald's when they get burned by their coffee, but I don't think the unfortunate cyclist who is the topic of the thread was one of them. We can talk about the tendency of Americans to sue anyone over anything in P&R.
coffeecake is offline  
Old 11-16-09, 03:26 PM
  #12  
Senior Member
 
Digital_Cowboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Tampa/St. Pete, Florida
Posts: 9,352

Bikes: Specialized Hardrock Mountain (Stolen); Giant Seek 2 (Stolen); Diamondback Ascent mid 1980 - 1997

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 62 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Originally Posted by tjwarren
I can just see some of you on a mountain bike trail. "I was riding along with this root jumped out and grabbed my wheel! I got right on the phone with the DOT (department of trails ) and let them know that I was coming after them for damages!"


When the heck did "wow, that sucked, let's not do that again!" turn into "WHO CAN I BLAME AND SUE?!?!?!?"



I heard a radio spot one time, the DJ had just had a friend visit them from (somewhere in Europe, one of the Scandinavian countries IIRC). While visiting, the friend was amazed at all of the tape and cones and signs surrounding a construction pit. The DJ explained that it was to keep people from falling into the hole, and to provide some protection to the company if someone DID fall into the hole.

The friend was amazed. He said that where he came from, people watched where they were going. And if you did happen to fall into a big pit in the middle of the street, you were embarassed because you'd just WALKED INTO A BIG PIT IN THE MIDDLE OF THE STREET.


If someone stretches a piano wire across a trail, or intentionally dumps debris in front of you -- THAT's negligent. The rest of this is just you complaining that the world isn't all soft and squishy.
I suggest that you go back and re-read the OP, there was an electrical box in the road that was left opened and leaves filled or covered with leaves. This isn't a simple case of someone "****ing" out not paying attention to where they're going and getting hurt. This is a case of a city worker or contractor creating a safety hazard.

Granted yes, I agree with you that if one is walking along the sidewalk, cuts through a construction site and falls into a pit that they and not the construction company is and should be liable for their injuries. But this isn't that kind of a case. This was an incident in which your average person has a reasonable presumption that the road will be safe for it's intended purpose. Clearly it was not otherwise the gentleman mentioned in the article in the OP would not have been in a single vehicle accident that sadly cost him his life.
Digital_Cowboy is offline  
Old 11-16-09, 03:31 PM
  #13  
Senior Member
 
Digital_Cowboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Tampa/St. Pete, Florida
Posts: 9,352

Bikes: Specialized Hardrock Mountain (Stolen); Giant Seek 2 (Stolen); Diamondback Ascent mid 1980 - 1997

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 62 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Originally Posted by tjwarren
CB: No, I realize that sidewalks and roads have bumps and irregularities, and I don't get upset when I find one.
Ah, but in this case it the cause of the accident wasn't a bump or an irregularity. It was an in ground electrical box that was left open. And then through an "act of god" got covered over and concealed. Therefore someone either a city/utility worker or contractor WAS negligent in the performance of his/her duties. And created an environment in which a person's life could and would be placed in danger.
Digital_Cowboy is offline  
Old 11-16-09, 03:43 PM
  #14  
Senior Member
 
Digital_Cowboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Tampa/St. Pete, Florida
Posts: 9,352

Bikes: Specialized Hardrock Mountain (Stolen); Giant Seek 2 (Stolen); Diamondback Ascent mid 1980 - 1997

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 62 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Originally Posted by tjwarren
It just seems that "negligence" has become a catch-all for "I can't be bothered to look out for myself, so I'm going to make whomever I can blame for my misfortune miserable because I think they're 'negligent'".

Want to sell a product? Better be insured against negligence! Want to lead a group ride? Better be insured against negligence! Hey, this peanut butter has peanuts in it, and I have to tell you about it so you can't sue me for negligence!

Every time I hear of a "negligence" suit, I think the collective intelligence of this country dips a little bit.


You never hear of any *real* negligence. IBM spent forty years dumping chemicals into the Hudson River. They weren't "negligent", they were just doing good business, so you and I have to pay to clean it up. But sell a bottle of aspirin without saying "DO NOT USE: if you are allergic to aspirin" (I'm looking at the aspirin bottle right now), and that's negligent.

I personally know several people who won't shovel their sidewalks in the winter. Because if you usually shovel your sidewalk but don't one time, you're negligent if someone gets hurt, but if you never shovel your sidewalk it's simply an act of god.


IMO, negligence should be for those things which could reasonably be harmful (but you willfully neglect anyway), not those things that some idiot manages to hurt himself on.
I agree with you that a lot of these "warning" labels go a little too far. Earlier this year I bought some peanut brittle and it too had the warning that "this product may contain peanuts or peanut byproducts" or some such thing as well as "this product was made in a facility that may process other nuts or nut products" or some such. I should it (the label) to a couple of friends and laughed at it "saying that given that I was buying "peanut brittle" that it had better have peanuts in it. After all I wasn't buying almond or chestnut brittle, but peanut brittle.
Digital_Cowboy is offline  
Old 11-16-09, 03:47 PM
  #15  
call me T.J.
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 361

Bikes: trek 820

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
coffeecake: I don't really have an agenda, I'm just tired of the assumption of blame. I simply happen to think that sometimes things go wrong and it's nobody's fault that they do.

Digital_Cowboy: I don't really see enough details in the article to say how dangerous the situation was. I don't know what an "electrical box" under pavement looks like. How deep and long was the hole? How long had it been uncovered?

I don't agree that simply because it was uncovered means that someone's to blame. Maybe a truck banged over it and made it bounce off, who knows? Sometimes crap happens.

That someone died because of it is extremely unfortunate, and truly my condolences go out to his family.

But in response to this article, we've had two responses from people saying they think it's perfectly reasonable to expect a sidewalk to be a safe and smooth place to be, and that they feel perfectly justified in blaming someone else when they discover that sometimes reality hurts. I'm sorry, but I have a problem with that.
tjwarren is offline  
Old 11-16-09, 04:06 PM
  #16  
Cycle Year Round
 
CB HI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Honolulu, HI
Posts: 13,644
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1316 Post(s)
Liked 92 Times in 59 Posts
Originally Posted by tjwarren
I don't agree that simply because it was uncovered means that someone's to blame. Maybe a truck banged over it and made it bounce off, who knows? Sometimes crap happens.
Which means it was improperly designed and someone is reasponsible for that improper design.
CB HI is offline  
Old 11-16-09, 04:07 PM
  #17  
Senior Member
 
Digital_Cowboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Tampa/St. Pete, Florida
Posts: 9,352

Bikes: Specialized Hardrock Mountain (Stolen); Giant Seek 2 (Stolen); Diamondback Ascent mid 1980 - 1997

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 62 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Originally Posted by tjwarren
coffeecake: I don't really have an agenda, I'm just tired of the assumption of blame. I simply happen to think that sometimes things go wrong and it's nobody's fault that they do.

Digital_Cowboy: I don't really see enough details in the article to say how dangerous the situation was. I don't know what an "electrical box" under pavement looks like. How deep and long was the hole? How long had it been uncovered?

I don't agree that simply because it was uncovered means that someone's to blame. Maybe a truck banged over it and made it bounce off, who knows? Sometimes crap happens.

That someone died because of it is extremely unfortunate, and truly my condolences go out to his family.

But in response to this article, we've had two responses from people saying they think it's perfectly reasonable to expect a sidewalk to be a safe and smooth place to be, and that they feel perfectly justified in blaming someone else when they discover that sometimes reality hurts. I'm sorry, but I have a problem with that.
I have several in ground electrical boxes in the areas that I ride. Most of them are long and deep enough that if left uncovered they could and would trap a front wheel causing a bicycle or even possibly a motorcycle to crash. Generally the covers are of sufficient size and weight that a vehicle driving over them won't dislodge them. Just as manhole covers are of sufficient size and weight that a vehicle driving over them won't dislodge them.

The posted article says that the cover was several feet away from the electrical box, that it was filled in with leaves. Which would I lead a reasonable person to the conclusion that said electrical box had been uncovered for more then a few minutes. Nor do I think that it's likely that a vehicle driving squarely over it is going to send the cover "several feet." It's more likely that someone working on the box moved the cover out of their way and forgot to replace it when they finished, or that someone intending to engage is some "harmless fun" opened the box and set the lid aside.

Sadly, unless the family of the gentleman mentioned can find a work order that shows that the box had been opened and worked on sometime "immediately" prior to the gentleman's ride we'll probably never know why it was open.

Yes, sometimes crap happens and there isn't "anyone to blame," but if one looks deep enough there usually is, even if it's the victim not paying enough attention to their surroundings.

Why shouldn't a sidewalk be safe and smooth? Isn't that why they're installed? So that pedestrians have a safe place to walk so that they do not have to walk with traffic? It is up to the city, county, state and in some areas home/property owner to make sure that they are safe for people to use.

That is why we pay, income, property, and sales tax. To provide the government with the funds to make sure that our roads and sidewalks are safe for everyone to use and enjoy. If they are not maintained in a safe manner then someone has to be held accountable. Otherwise what is the purpose of paying taxes?
Digital_Cowboy is offline  
Old 11-16-09, 04:09 PM
  #18  
Senior Member
 
Digital_Cowboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Tampa/St. Pete, Florida
Posts: 9,352

Bikes: Specialized Hardrock Mountain (Stolen); Giant Seek 2 (Stolen); Diamondback Ascent mid 1980 - 1997

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 62 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Originally Posted by CB HI
Which means it was improperly designed and someone is responsible for that improper design.
Agreed, design error is human error. And if that's the case here, then they need to redesign it so that it doesn't happen again in the future.
Digital_Cowboy is offline  
Old 11-16-09, 04:11 PM
  #19  
Senior Member
 
Wogster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Toronto (again) Ontario, Canada
Posts: 6,931

Bikes: Old Bike: 1975 Raleigh Delta, New Bike: 2004 Norco Bushpilot

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times in 5 Posts
Originally Posted by tjwarren
coffeecake: I don't really have an agenda, I'm just tired of the assumption of blame. I simply happen to think that sometimes things go wrong and it's nobody's fault that they do.

Digital_Cowboy: I don't really see enough details in the article to say how dangerous the situation was. I don't know what an "electrical box" under pavement looks like. How deep and long was the hole? How long had it been uncovered?

I don't agree that simply because it was uncovered means that someone's to blame. Maybe a truck banged over it and made it bounce off, who knows? Sometimes crap happens.
I think underground utilities boxes are typically about 8" in diameter and the covers fit in tight with a recessed bolt that holds it in place.

Now there are a few possibilities:

1) After maintenance the cover was not replaced properly.
2) Vandals removed the cover. and left it open.
3) There was a defect in the box, lid or bolt that allowed it to come off.
4) An unauthorized party removed the lid and didn't replace it properly.
5) Work was ongoing a construction cone marked the hole originally, the cone was blown away, knocked away or stolen.
Wogster is offline  
Old 11-16-09, 04:27 PM
  #20  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Boston
Posts: 4,556
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by Digital_Cowboy
I agree with you that a lot of these "warning" labels go a little too far. Earlier this year I bought some peanut brittle and it too had the warning that "this product may contain peanuts or peanut byproducts" or some such thing as well as "this product was made in a facility that may process other nuts or nut products" or some such. I should it (the label) to a couple of friends and laughed at it "saying that given that I was buying "peanut brittle" that it had better have peanuts in it. After all I wasn't buying almond or chestnut brittle, but peanut brittle.
That's different. Those warnings appear in a standard place in a standard way so that you can very quickly decipher if that allergen is a danger or not for that packages product.

This isn't about intelligence or stupidity. It's about making information consistent and easily accessible. We can't let some products off because it's "obvious" or "common sense." You apply it to everyone equally so that things are consistent and simple.

Again, allergen information isn't a warning label. It's more akin to an ingredients listing, but it's specifically narrowed down to common food allergies.
crhilton is offline  
Old 11-16-09, 06:43 PM
  #21  
Senior Member
 
Digital_Cowboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Tampa/St. Pete, Florida
Posts: 9,352

Bikes: Specialized Hardrock Mountain (Stolen); Giant Seek 2 (Stolen); Diamondback Ascent mid 1980 - 1997

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 62 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Originally Posted by crhilton
That's different. Those warnings appear in a standard place in a standard way so that you can very quickly decipher if that allergen is a danger or not for that packages product.

This isn't about intelligence or stupidity. It's about making information consistent and easily accessible. We can't let some products off because it's "obvious" or "common sense." You apply it to everyone equally so that things are consistent and simple.

Again, allergen information isn't a warning label. It's more akin to an ingredients listing, but it's specifically narrowed down to common food allergies.
I understand that warning for other foodstuffs that is made/processed in the same factory that processes peanuts and other nuts. But when the product IS peanuts or peanut based and someone with a peanut allergy eats it whose fault is that? The manufacturer of the product or the person with the allergy?
Digital_Cowboy is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.