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Stop that unsafe bicycling or I'll Shoot - sentencing

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Stop that unsafe bicycling or I'll Shoot - sentencing

Old 11-19-09, 06:31 PM
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Stop that unsafe bicycling or I'll Shoot - sentencing

The firefighter who shot at the cyclist in Asheville NC was sentenced today... and violence wins again...

link to article (updated for the more complete morning edition story)


link to original thread

Last edited by cooperwx; 11-20-09 at 05:35 AM. Reason: updated news article link
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Old 11-19-09, 06:48 PM
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"Diez had stopped his car and confronted Simon, apparently because he was concerned about the safety of the Asheville man riding his bicycle with his young child on the back on the busy road, police said."


he was concerned about the cyclist safety? IMHO 1200 or 120,000 days are not enough 120 days is a waste of the courts time and the cities money
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Old 11-19-09, 07:11 PM
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I'd hate to be that first cyclist Diez sees on the road after he gets out.
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Old 11-19-09, 08:49 PM
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Originally Posted by cooperwx View Post
The firefighter who shot at the cyclist in Asheville NC was sentenced today... and violence wins again...

link to article


link to original thread
DA Tom Moore is just like every other legal authority that go full-steam when it is a driver-driver incident. But when it is a driver-cyclist incident, they most assuredly drop the ball. Because, Cyclists are treated like second-class citizens.
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Old 11-19-09, 09:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Bianchigirll View Post
"Diez had stopped his car and confronted Simon, apparently because he was concerned about the safety of the Asheville man riding his bicycle with his young child on the back on the busy road, police said."


he was concerned about the cyclist safety? IMHO 1200 or 120,000 days are not enough 120 days is a waste of the courts time and the cities money
I agree with you, a 120 sentence is worse then a slap in the face. And given that this is presumably the ex-firefighters first offense he'll probably get probation or possibly a suspended sentence.

I agree that where some offenses are concerned that first time offenders should be given some leeway, but this is NOT one of those times. He should have to serve much more time then a 120 days.
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Old 11-19-09, 09:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Chris516 View Post
DA Tom Moore is just like every other legal authority that go full-steam when it is a driver-driver incident. But when it is a driver-cyclist incident, they most assuredly drop the ball. Because, Cyclists are treated like second-class citizens.
It's Ron Moore. Carry on.
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Old 11-20-09, 06:18 AM
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Conviction, record, and a sentence (any sentence) form a surprisingly strong deterrent to future misbehavior.

I don't see much emphasis on long terms in auto-auto, auto-moto, etc.

I don't believe that punishment after works well anyway. Education before, change in societal norms about, and removing access to misused equipment afterwards. That might work. Here, suitable punishment might be something like a year without a car and permanent loss of right to carry and use firearms, plus a 100 day fine (dayfines prove quite effective).
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Old 11-20-09, 08:11 AM
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Originally Posted by mandovoodoo View Post
Conviction, record, and a sentence (any sentence) form a surprisingly strong deterrent to future misbehavior.

I don't see much emphasis on long terms in auto-auto, auto-moto, etc.

I don't believe that punishment after works well anyway. Education before, change in societal norms about, and removing access to misused equipment afterwards. That might work. Here, suitable punishment might be something like a year without a car and permanent loss of right to carry and use firearms, plus a 100 day fine (dayfines prove quite effective).
Auto-auto**********????
Are you kidding me? Just because this guy shot at someone from inside his car, it's not an auto vs. auto incident. He shot at and injured an unarmed man. You can't go back and educate him before, and I don't think this guy cares at all about your societal norms given his conduct. I'm all for removing access to "misused equipment" but that's not nearly enough. If he had fired shots at someone you loved for no good reason, would you want him back out in your neighborhood? .
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Old 11-20-09, 09:18 AM
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Did the FF past a Psych exam? Why would he even stop the cyclist much less fire a "warning" shot. He's lucky the other person wasn't carrying; if you pull a gun you better be willing to kill the person.
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Old 11-20-09, 09:34 AM
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Originally Posted by mandovoodoo View Post
Conviction, record, and a sentence (any sentence) form a surprisingly strong deterrent to future misbehavior.

I don't see much emphasis on long terms in auto-auto, auto-moto, etc.

I don't believe that punishment after works well anyway. Education before, change in societal norms about, and removing access to misused equipment afterwards. That might work. Here, suitable punishment might be something like a year without a car and permanent loss of right to carry and use firearms, plus a 100 day fine (dayfines prove quite effective).
Light sentences tend to send a poor signal to someone of this nature who purposely tries to harm someone else. Just read a local news article about a motorist who was convicted of killing 4 persons while intoxicated, driving on a suspended license and is currently serving a 6 year term as a firefighter trainee at a unfenced low security camp that has escorted privileges into the nearest local town . The news article goes to say that the motorist now seeking to have their sentence reduced due to a legality issue. I feel stronger sentences for road rage/negligent driving, not lighter ones, are the order of the day when a firearm or a death is involved.
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Old 11-20-09, 10:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Buddha4 View Post
Why would he even stop the cyclist much less fire a "warning" shot.
Clearly, you didn't read the article (since it provides an explaination for the shot being fired).

The title of this thread is an embarrasing deliberate misrepesntation.
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Old 11-20-09, 11:22 AM
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Assault with a deadly weapon is why he was convicted. Anyone know: is that a felony? If so, no guns for Mr. Firefighter anymore...
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Old 11-20-09, 11:36 AM
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And it may very well be no more firefighting job. Many public jobs like that (as well as my own private sector job) are not available to anyone with a felony conviction.
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Old 11-20-09, 12:55 PM
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"Assault With a Deadly Weapon With Intent to Kill Inflicting Serious Injury (AWDWIKISI), which is a Class C felony, with a minimum sentence of 44 months (bottom of the mitigated range for a person with no prior convictions)." (according to https://www.chetson.com/felonies/assaults/ (a NC lawyer page.)

Looks like most of his sentence was commuted as long as he's a good boy. But being convicted of a felony, his punishment will be significantly greater than simply being in jail for a while. He won't be able to own a gun for the rest of his life, for example. (Unless NC law is unusual, I guess.) And it very well may affect his job.
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Old 11-20-09, 06:03 PM
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[QUOTE=njkayaker;10056429]Clearly, you didn't read the article (since it provides an explaination for the shot being fired).


I did read the article "but testified during his sentencing hearing that he only fired a warning shot and didn't intend to hurt Alan Ray Simons" It's a BS explanation. The Driver had a weapon drawn after HE initated the confrontation. I commute on a MC over 15k this year and pretty much view every driver as an idiot and you can't expect idoits to do smart things. Stilldoesn't explain why he evenshouted at the cyclist

Besides fighting to keep a job hopefully he loses big in a civil suit.
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Old 11-20-09, 06:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Buddha4 View Post
Originally Posted by njkayaker View Post
Clearly, you didn't read the article (since it provides an explaination for the shot being fired).
I did read the article "but testified during his sentencing hearing that he only fired a warning shot and didn't intend to hurt Alan Ray Simons" It's a BS explanation. The Driver had a weapon drawn after HE initated the confrontation. I commute on a MC over 15k this year and pretty much view every driver as an idiot and you can't expect idoits to do smart things. Stilldoesn't explain why he evenshouted at the cyclist

Besides fighting to keep a job hopefully he loses big in a civil suit.
First page.

When I got to his door, the gun was pointing at my chest. I turned to walk away, (and) the gun went off. He chose to pull the trigger.”
Second page.

Diez maintained that Simons reached into his car and grabbed him, a claim Simons denied.
Originally Posted by Buddha4 View Post
Why would he even stop the cyclist much less fire a "warning" shot.
The "whys" for both are either obvious or provided. Of course, one could argue that those "whys" are mistakes, stupid, wrong, etc, but they aren't missing.

===================

Personally, I think people carrying guns for "protection" is stupid, largely, because of the fact that crap like this happens. Given this case, the thread in the "Road Cycling" forum about what gun to carry while cycling is amusing.

Last edited by njkayaker; 11-20-09 at 06:21 PM.
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Old 11-20-09, 06:14 PM
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Originally Posted by bikesafer View Post
Auto-auto**********????
Are you kidding me? Just because this guy shot at someone from inside his car, it's not an auto vs. auto incident. He shot at and injured an unarmed man. You can't go back and educate him before, and I don't think this guy cares at all about your societal norms given his conduct. I'm all for removing access to "misused equipment" but that's not nearly enough. If he had fired shots at someone you loved for no good reason, would you want him back out in your neighborhood? .
You, my friend, really need to learn how to read.

1. I didn't state this incident was auto-auto - I was looking to a previous comment on the disparate treatment delivered depending on the kind of interaction involved. Generally we have large commercial, auto size, motorcycle/scooter, and bicycle type things on the roads, with the potential for various types of interactions.

2. The solution isn't likely to be to educate each individual independently. Rather, changing the norms will keep future morons in check a bit. I'm not proposing time travel.

3. I'm all for effective control of morons. Jailing them at substantial cost simply turns them into professional criminals.

4. Please learn to read.
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Old 11-20-09, 06:24 PM
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Originally Posted by dynodonn View Post
Light sentences tend to send a poor signal to someone of this nature who purposely tries to harm someone else. Just read a local news article about a motorist who was convicted of killing 4 persons while intoxicated, driving on a suspended license and is currently serving a 6 year term as a firefighter trainee at a unfenced low security camp that has escorted privileges into the nearest local town . The news article goes to say that the motorist now seeking to have their sentence reduced due to a legality issue. I feel stronger sentences for road rage/negligent driving, not lighter ones, are the order of the day when a firearm or a death is involved.
Are you writing about specific deterrent? That is, directed at this individual. Or general deterrent. Directed at society, the punishment as a message.

That's the key.

Now. Conviction alone (especially of a felony) carries a good deal of deterrent in both arenas.

Nobody is thinking of the potential sentence when they're misbehaving. I used to ask my customers about that specific thing. "Did you think about the time you'd serve if you got caught?" Not one of my criminal defendants thought about it at all. The potential for punishment doesn't really enter into people's minds in any particularly meaningful way unless they're about to commit some really serious crime. If they're all worked up, then they'll still commit the serious crime.

Rather than attempting to make society less violent by punishing some individuals, we'd be much better off changing our societal norms about violent behavior. This would have to change TV content and people wouldn't like it. People tend to like to have a fantasy life involving violence against an unfair society. TV makes the detailing of that fantasy life easier. At least we could embed PSAs on what's really acceptable into TV. Wouldn't that be nice!

Road rage I can see distinguishing from other assaults. But the punishment should primarily be (assuming no serious harm) taking the car away and the right to drive it. That's going to be a big deterrent to the culprit and will permeate society quickly. People clearly value their cars and car freedom more than others' lives.

For negligent driving, we've got much of that handled fairly well. I'd like the cost of distracted driving involving food cell tv tomtom etc to be loss of license and vehicle. Vehicle permanently. License lost for a significant time. Keep in mind that a significant period of time is 3 months for most people. They simply can't get around! So a whole change of seasons, a year, without a license is a big big deal.

Add the firearm - yeah. This guy needed to be zapped really hard. But most don't.
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Old 11-20-09, 08:26 PM
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120 days? He says he was the one who felt threatened? What a load of crap. I cannot believe this is happening.
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Old 11-20-09, 08:37 PM
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Originally Posted by mandovoodoo View Post
Are you writing about specific deterrent? That is, directed at this individual. Or general deterrent. Directed at society, the punishment as a message.

That's the key.

Now. Conviction alone (especially of a felony) carries a good deal of deterrent in both arenas.

Nobody is thinking of the potential sentence when they're misbehaving. I used to ask my customers about that specific thing. "Did you think about the time you'd serve if you got caught?" Not one of my criminal defendants thought about it at all. The potential for punishment doesn't really enter into people's minds in any particularly meaningful way unless they're about to commit some really serious crime. If they're all worked up, then they'll still commit the serious crime.

Rather than attempting to make society less violent by punishing some individuals, we'd be much better off changing our societal norms about violent behavior. This would have to change TV content and people wouldn't like it. People tend to like to have a fantasy life involving violence against an unfair society. TV makes the detailing of that fantasy life easier. At least we could embed PSAs on what's really acceptable into TV. Wouldn't that be nice!

Road rage I can see distinguishing from other assaults. But the punishment should primarily be (assuming no serious harm) taking the car away and the right to drive it. That's going to be a big deterrent to the culprit and will permeate society quickly. People clearly value their cars and car freedom more than others' lives.

For negligent driving, we've got much of that handled fairly well. I'd like the cost of distracted driving involving food cell tv tomtom etc to be loss of license and vehicle. Vehicle permanently. License lost for a significant time. Keep in mind that a significant period of time is 3 months for most people. They simply can't get around! So a whole change of seasons, a year, without a license is a big big deal.

Add the firearm - yeah. This guy needed to be zapped really hard. But most don't.
Lose of license does not deter many people from driving, I personally know several persons who drove or are driving regardless. They may be better drivers without a license, but in my first post that was not the case. Most people who lose their vehicle usually borrow another from an unsuspecting person, and the vehicle is usually returned back to that person should the unlicensed driver be caught. As in my first post, the motorist was driving on a suspended license from a prior DUI, and it goes to show that suspending a motorist's license does very little in deterring people.
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Old 11-20-09, 11:10 PM
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Originally Posted by cooperwx View Post
The firefighter who shot at the cyclist in Asheville NC was sentenced today... and violence wins again...

link to article (updated for the more complete morning edition story)


link to original thread
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Old 11-20-09, 11:22 PM
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The puke former firefighting convict started the confrontation, and he was in fear for his life or safety? Yeah, OK -- and I'm in the middle of a threesome with Halle Berry and Alicia Keys.

Some judges will swallow ANYthing.
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Old 11-21-09, 07:47 AM
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Originally Posted by mandovoodoo View Post
You, my friend, really need to learn how to read.

1. I didn't state this incident was auto-auto - I was looking to a previous comment on the disparate treatment delivered depending on the kind of interaction involved. Generally we have large commercial, auto size, motorcycle/scooter, and bicycle type things on the roads, with the potential for various types of interactions.

2. The solution isn't likely to be to educate each individual independently. Rather, changing the norms will keep future morons in check a bit. I'm not proposing time travel.

3. I'm all for effective control of morons. Jailing them at substantial cost simply turns them into professional criminals.

4. Please learn to read.
----------------------------------------
Road rage I can see distinguishing from other assaults. But the punishment should primarily be (assuming no serious harm) taking the car away and the right to drive it. That's going to be a big deterrent to the culprit and will permeate society quickly. People clearly value their cars and car freedom more than others' lives.
Add the firearm - yeah. This guy needed to be zapped really hard. But most don't.
First off, I can read just fine. Nowhere in your first comment is there any reference to any previous comment. In fact there is no other previous comment in this thread on "disparate treatment". I was simply responding to what you wrote. I guess I assumed you were posting on the topic of this thread which was not an auto-auto incident. But that is a moot point because you add later that,
"Here, suitable punishment might be something like a year without a car and permanent loss of right to carry and use firearms, plus a 100 day fine". Again implying that this was somehow car related. Taking someones car away because he tried to shoot someone doesn't make a lot of sense. Maybe we should take away their playstation and send them to their room without dinner too.

One of the biggest way we change societal norms is the deterrent of prison time. And in this case the persons access to "misused equipment"(guns) will be denied simply based on his felony conviction. I don't think that's enough of a punishment for shooting at another mans head.

I guess I can't really make sense of what you think because you repeatedly make reference to punishments other than serious incarceration, but then at the end you add that this guy needed to be zapped hard. Which is it?
Maybe it's not that I don't know how to read, maybe you should try being a little clearer with your writing. Just a suggestion.
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Old 11-21-09, 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by dougmc View Post
"Assault With a Deadly Weapon With Intent to Kill Inflicting Serious Injury (AWDWIKISI), which is a Class C felony, with a minimum sentence of 44 months (bottom of the mitigated range for a person with no prior convictions)." (according to https://www.chetson.com/felonies/assaults/ (a NC lawyer page.)

Looks like most of his sentence was commuted as long as he's a good boy. But being convicted of a felony, his punishment will be significantly greater than simply being in jail for a while. He won't be able to own a gun for the rest of his life, for example. (Unless NC law is unusual, I guess.) And it very well may affect his job.
I think his sentence could be viewed as plenty fair:

"Only" 120 days in jail. Raised hands--how many of us have spent any time at all in jail, country club or not? I'm guessing it will suck, at the very least, compared to being not locked up.

He will be on parole/probation for 30 months. 2-1/2 years where he can be tested for drugs or alcohol at will, his home can be searched at any time, and he cannot travel without permission.

He won't be able to vote for those 30 months, maybe longer if there is additional probation involved, and there are 12 states where he will never be able to vote.

He will never be able to legally carry a firearm. Sure hope he wasn't a hunter (firefighter? in NC? what's the chances...).

He lost his job Aug 10, will not be able to pass a background check if it ever comes up, and will have to disclose a felony record on job apps. He'll never get a job in his chosen field, or police work, or the military(?).

He likely will be denied entry into many foreign countries, including Canada.

He pretty much wrecked his life. I got no pity for him--he made his flowers, now he must eat them--but there are far more ramifications than just the jail sentence to think about when considering what's "fair." All the above? Seems pretty fair for taking an undeserved shot at someone, but which did not kill or do grievous injury.
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Old 11-21-09, 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by mconlonx View Post
I think his sentence could be viewed as plenty fair:
You're missing the point. The minimum mandatory sentence of 44 months would've been fair. If Diez weren't a fireman, he would've served at least that. His reduced time served is an outrage and should be a wake up call for non-gov't employees.
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