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Bike Got Hit While Parked

Old 12-27-09, 08:08 PM
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NiMO189
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Bike Got Hit While Parked

My bike was parked at a bike rack, when a salt cart hit it. I chased down the cart and got the company info, I will be calling them to file a claim tomorrow during business hours. The obvious damage is to the front end, with the bars being totaled, a dent in the head tube, and a couple stress marks on one of the fork blades. The front wheel was also put out of true but is likely truable.
My concern is that the company's insurance will throw me something like $20 because it's an "old" bike. The bike is a c.1973 Batavus Tour de l'Europe that has been modified to be fixed-wheel, and the front wheel is a hand-built Velocity Aero onto a vintage Maillard hub.
Any advice you can give is much appreciated.
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Old 12-27-09, 08:15 PM
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You have to hope they -the business and the insurer-are honest. They know you aren't going to hire a lawyer-not for $100-$200-,so you are sorta' at their mercy.

Big aside-what is a salt cart??

You'll do ok if these are honest folks.Do you have a witness?
Charlie
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Old 12-27-09, 08:17 PM
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Take it to a bike shop, get estimates for repair and for replacement with an equivalent bike. I don't know what the rules are but I wouldn't think that the insurance company gets to just make up values that are at odds with a professional estimate.
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Old 12-27-09, 08:24 PM
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Thanks for the quick responses guys.
@phoebeisis A salt cart is the name I came up for the thing they were driving. It's basically a heated golf cart that has a salt hopper on the back of it. There were no witnesses other than the two in the cart, but when I chased down the cart I got the driver's name. I know he called dispatch to report it (after I chased them down), because he came back and said the company wanted him to take pictures.
@ItsJustMe That was my plan. The biggest wrinkle in it is that the used bike shops in town (who would be likely to have similar frames/bikes) don't offer much for paperwork, and I'm not sure that the new shops will be able to help me. I'll try anyhow, a repair estimate is better than nothing.
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Old 12-27-09, 08:26 PM
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They owe you the cost of an equivalent replacement bike. Front fork may be out of whack beyond cold setting.

Originally Posted by NiMO189 View Post
and I'm not sure that the new shops will be able to help me.
They will if they think they can sell you a Specialized Allez steel if they write out a replacement estimate.

-Kurt
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Old 12-27-09, 08:55 PM
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I swear the guys that clear snow around here like to wipe out bikes.
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Old 12-27-09, 09:42 PM
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There are several old threads you should look up about dealing with insurance companies. Most are likely in the commuter forum.


Get estimates from 3 different LBSs for both repair and in kind replacement (built with the same frame and components that are on the bike now). Submit the highest 2 estimates to the insurance. If this is a commuter/utility bike, include an estimate for per week travel cost to rent a bike or for public transportation while your waiting for the insurance to settle plus two extra weeks for repairing/replacing the bike after the check is in hand. Demand the insurance company “make you whole”. That is one of their terms, which means your bike ends up in the same condition or the replacement is in the same or better condition as before they damaged it.

The insurance adjuster will likely make you a low offer or claim an excessive depreciation on the bike. They will also delay paying for as long as possible up to the point that the company sets for them to finally clear the claim from their books. So be ready for the process to take a long time. That is why it is important to have the rental, so their cost to close the claim goes up every week that they delay paying.

In the end, if they refuse to pay or offer too little, take the golf cart owners to small claims court.
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Old 12-27-09, 10:04 PM
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I'll remember that line, and the rental angle. Hopefully that will speed things up, all of your help is much appreciated.
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Old 12-27-09, 10:06 PM
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Personally, I'd be more concerned that the insurance company will decide that they're not to blame at all for the accident than that they'll try to screw you once they've taken responsibility.

They could claim that the bike wasn't in a proper place, or the bike rack was too close to the street, or your bike wasn't properly locked, or that they never hit it, etc. Not saying they will, but certainly this sort of thing has happened before. Personally, I've never had insurance companies screw me over once they took responsibility -- but they certainly have tried before getting to that point. Of course, to be fair I've never made an insurance claim for damage to a bike -- though when my car was rear-ended and it ruined by bike rack (in addition to the back of my car), they paid far more for the rack than I had, as I had bought it used and they paid new price for it. I had even told them what I paid, and they said that was too little and paid a lot more.

That picture of your bike on the bike rack -- was that taken before you moved the bike? If so, that's pretty good evidence for your case (though it would be nice if it was more in focus), though it's not clear where the rack is relative to the actual road.
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Old 12-27-09, 10:15 PM
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The picture of the bike on the rack is after I picked it up but before I unlocked it. In the foreground is the sidewalk the salt cart was traveling down, the bike rack is swallowed in the snowbank and behind that is the road. The picture quality is so poor because it is a cell phone camera picture, the real camera was at home.
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Old 12-28-09, 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by NiMO189 View Post
The picture of the bike on the rack is after I picked it up but before I unlocked it. In the foreground is the sidewalk the salt cart was traveling down, the bike rack is swallowed in the snowbank and behind that is the road. The picture quality is so poor because it is a cell phone camera picture, the real camera was at home.
A cell phone picture is better then nothing. It's too bad that the only other witnesses are the driver and passenger in the golf cart. As it's probably not in their best interest with their company to tell the whole unvarnished truth.

Please let us know how it goes with filing a claim with their insurance company.
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Old 12-29-09, 06:00 AM
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If the insurance company is Allstate, you will have no recourse but to take them to court. It is Allstate's current policy to force *all* vehicle claims to trial, regardless of the size of damages. It has actually been their policy for several years. They will do this to their own policyholders as well.
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Old 12-29-09, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Ajenkins View Post
It is Allstate's current policy to force *all* vehicle claims to trial, regardless of the size of damages.
I've had an accident where the other driver was insured with Allstate (and was at fault.) They were a pain in the butt, but they eventually paid without going to court. My insurer (USAA) even told me up front that some insurance companies were easy to deal with, and some weren't -- and Allstate was the worst. This was perhaps 13 years ago, so things certainly could have changed since then.

In any event, do you have any citations to back this current policy up? The wikipedia page on Allstate certainly says they've been difficult to deal with, but doesn't say they force *all* claims to go to trial (which seems counter productive to me.) Even this story doesn't quite say that.
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Old 12-29-09, 12:12 PM
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Well, let's hope they don't have Allstate then.

Had the bike checked out by a couple shops. The consensus seems to be to replace the fork, stem, bars and headset. However, the new fork won't be compatible with the 5/16" axle on the existing hub, so I expect there will be additional costs to find a solution to that. The frame checked out okay, despite the dented HT.
Still waiting to hear back from their insurance, I'll post an update when I do.
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Old 12-29-09, 01:10 PM
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What would your bike-prewreck of course-sell for on CL before it was dinged?
Can't insurance companies just "total" it out? My guess is it would be cheaper for them to just "total" it for $150 than to actually pay a bike shop to replace the parts. A bikestore will probably charge >$200 installed-for a fork($40), headset($20), stem($20), bars($20) and a wheel($30)+ maybe $100 labor.



They will total it-which might be ok.See what they want to buy it back??
Luck
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Old 12-29-09, 01:43 PM
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The first step to deciding if something is totalled is to see how much it would cost to repair. The next step is to compare that cost against what the item is worth. The insurance company isn't going to pay $400 to repair a bike that can be replaced for $150.

Of course, this assumes that something can be replaced for $150. If you look for similar bikes on Craigslist or Ebay, you may find people asking for a lot more -- perhaps they may not sell at that price, but it does give you ammunition to use against the insurance company if they say your bike is only worth $150. If you can't find a comparablebike available anywhere for less than $250, then that means your bike is worth $250 or so. If you can fix it for less, great. If not, get the company to give you the $250 and buy the other bike. They may even let you keep your old bike (or may not) and so you can salvage it if you wish.
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Old 12-29-09, 03:18 PM
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Does the bike-Batavus-1973-have a nice frame-DB chrome Moly or 531 Reynolds maybe?? Your front wheel would cost maybe $80 to duplicate, right? Rim maybe $40+ spokes+hub, so replacing it with the cheapest bike shop wheel wouldn't be fair.

Fingers crossed-you have to hope the insurance company, and the salt cart company are honest.
Charlie
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Old 12-29-09, 09:42 PM
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Send the driver a demand letter, too. Negligence. He's the negligent party.

Get your ducks in a row. One demand letter. Then on to small claims court. Squeaky wheel effect.
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Old 12-30-09, 02:11 PM
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Originally Posted by NiMO189 View Post
Well, let's hope they don't have Allstate then.

Had the bike checked out by a couple shops. The consensus seems to be to replace the fork, stem, bars and headset. However, the new fork won't be compatible with the 5/16" axle on the existing hub, so I expect there will be additional costs to find a solution to that. The frame checked out okay, despite the dented HT.
Still waiting to hear back from their insurance, I'll post an update when I do.
Remember, you deserve to be "made whole". Your bike did not have a dent in the HT before, so do not accept a dent now. Demand that they remove the dent and repaint the bike OR replace the frame OR pay for an in-kind bike.

That way, if they low ball your claim, you may still be able to get the amount of money YOU need to get the bike back on the road in a condition that you are OK with without going to court. The money the give you will be a lump sum to clear the claim; if you choose to not repaint the bike or replace the frame, that is YOUR choice.

I think Allstate only does auto insurance, and your claim will probably go to an business/property insurance type company.
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Old 12-30-09, 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by CB HI View Post
Remember, you deserve to be "made whole". Your bike did not have a dent in the HT before, so do not accept a dent now. Demand that they remove the dent and repaint the bike OR replace the frame OR pay for an in-kind bike.
Correct. That is why you need the repair estimates suggested earlier. Also, do some looking on CL and ebay to find a similar quality bike. There is a difference between your bike and an old schwinn varsity. Also, to only pay for replacement means that there is a marketable solution that you can exercise, so if they offer you a replacement value for a like-kind bike, demand they show you what it is based on and where you could actually purchase such a thing.

Originally Posted by CB HI View Post
That way, if they low ball your claim, you may still be able to get the amount of money YOU need to get the bike back on the road in a condition that you are OK with without going to court. The money the give you will be a lump sum to clear the claim; if you choose to not repaint the bike or replace the frame, that is YOUR choice.
Correct. The obligation is to monetarily make you whole. There is no obligation on your part to actually repair or replace the bike unless they total it, in which case they are purchasing the bike for the cost it would have been had it not been damaged. If you want to keep the damaged frame, they will likely ask you to buy it back at their perceived salvage value. With a bike I doubt they'd actually do all that, but they CAN do that.

Originally Posted by CB HI View Post
I think Allstate only does auto insurance, and your claim will probably go to an business/property insurance type company.
Incorrect. Allstate insures autos, homes, businesses, misc. vehicles like ATVs and likely also Salt carts. Allstate is difficult to deal with because for a long time lawyers filed lots of claims hoping they would settle when there was no real liability. I'm not saying they do things the way they should, but I understand how they got to where they are. Their practices help keep Allstate Insured's premiums low(er than they would otherwise be). Still, I think the accusation above (that they force all claims to court) is blatantly false and should be deleted.

Fair disclosure: I work for a competitor of Allstate.
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Old 12-30-09, 03:52 PM
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Wouldn't it be cheapest/easiest for the insurance company to just total it??If they decide they are at fault,I don't see them being really cheap about it-and arguing about $50-$100.
If they think you are at fault, they just won't pay, and it probably wouldn't be worth the effort to go after them.
Heck, it would be cheapest for them to just give him $250 and tell you to do what you want with it.

I suspect if they decide to pay, they won't nickle and dime you.
Charlie
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Old 12-30-09, 08:08 PM
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Looking like I won't hear back until next week earliest, with tomorrow being New Year's Eve. I think if I tried to charge them for paint and the HT, any sensible company would say it was totaled and give a fair market price (as would I, if I were in their shoes). What a fair market price is exactly is the debatable subject here, so I would like to avoid that argument. It is not stock, and isn't the most common of manufacturers (in the US). Also, I live in a town where used bicycles seem to go for slightly more than the majority of the US. All of these factors make for determining a fair market value or finding an equivalent replacement more difficult.
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Old 12-31-09, 07:37 AM
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Right-just paying you replacement cost,letting you keep the hulk- more or lesss calling it totaled would be the quickest, cheapest way for them to go. Playing hardball wouldn't make any sense for them- if they decide their client is at fault.Since your bike wasn't even moving, and the salt cart was driving on a sidewalk, I can't really see them deciding they weren't at fault. This is a tiny claim-few hundred $$-for an insurance company.
It should work out ok for you.
I don't have much idea what your bike is worth(but that won't stop me from guessing), but maybe $250-$350-you keep the hulk, would seem fair. I don't see the actual salvage value of a bike with a dented frame being more than the pennies the steel would be worth-zero in other words.Your front wheel was the only special part, right? It was trashed,so..
It will work out ok,I think.
Charlie
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Old 01-11-10, 10:35 PM
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Thought I'd give anyone who's interested an update:
I've spoken with the insurance, and they've agreed to a settlement. $325 was the figure that was worked out, and I'm happy enough with that. It doesn't address the dented HT or paint, but I couldn't expect that they would (fixing those would put the costs well above what the bike is worth). After how long it took to get ahold of someone at the insurance company, I have to say that I'm a little surprised at how fast they agreed to the repair estimate I sent them. I'm sure this is a ridiculously small some to them, so they probably just wanted to move on.
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Old 01-11-10, 11:54 PM
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Originally Posted by NiMO189 View Post
Thought I'd give anyone who's interested an update:
I've spoken with the insurance, and they've agreed to a settlement. $325 was the figure that was worked out, and I'm happy enough with that. It doesn't address the dented HT or paint, but I couldn't expect that they would (fixing those would put the costs well above what the bike is worth). After how long it took to get a hold of someone at the insurance company, I have to say that I'm a little surprised at how fast they agreed to the repair estimate I sent them. I'm sure this is a ridiculously small sum to them, so they probably just wanted to move on.
I guess if you're happy that's all that matters. But aren't they suppose to make you whole? If so then why settle for less? Especially considering that it took you a long time to get a hold of anyone at the insurance company. They were probably dragging their feet because they realized that you would either:

a) settle for less when you did get a hold of them
b) just give up and go away
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