Chalupa102

Today i was on my commute heading back home. I was coming up to an intersection to take a left turn and was already in the "left turn area". The green arrow went out a ways ahead but the light was still green. I stopped right before the intersection because there were a lot of cars going straight coming from the other way. There were a few cars behind me planning to take a left turn as well. Out of no where, 2 cars passed me and stopped in the actual intersection getting ready to turn left. Did they not understand that i was stopped because there were cars coming the other way? They could not go either because of the cars coming. As soon as the cars were clear coming from the other way, i waited for those 2 cars to go that passed me and then made my turn. Has this ever happened to you guys? Is there anything that could have been done to prevent this from happening in the future?

I made a rough sketch to try to better explain the situation.

genec

Actually technically you should move into the intersection to stop and wait for traffic to clear... you'd do that in a car, why not on a bike. You were at the stop line, and you are allowed to go beyond the stop line and enter the intersection and even go after the red, from that point, as you are already in the turn. If the light turned red while you were behind the stop line, you cannot go.

Now the real question is how these motorists that went around you, got around you and the two cars behind you.

Again, consider what you would do if you were driving a car in the same situation.

Chicago Al 

Had the same thing happen today...though I was in a car. At this particular intersection, E bound, you enter a freeway onramp from the L turn lane, and due to heavy W bound traffic you cannot really do it except on the green arrow. So the line can build up, but usually not horribly, you might have to wait a cycle to get through. But people sometimes cut over from the next W bound lane in order to make it to the onramp, 'butting in line.' Maybe not routinely, but I have seen it a lot, and today some lady apparently felt that waiting in line at all was beneath her. (This was Division/Kennedy Expwy if anyone reading is familiar with Chicago, there is a ghost bike at this site though I don't think that accident had anything to do with this particular situation.)

In your situation it sounds to me like you were smart to stay where you were. You could have gone further into the intersection, as genec says, but personally I would feel too 'exposed' in that situation. If someone were to go through the intersection late going 'down' which I presume is S in your drawing, not leaving you the opportunity to make your turn before the E-W traffic started up, you'd be in the middle of a mess. An awkward situation in a car could be a dangerous one on a bike. Not to mention that people frequently accelerate to make it through the last of the yellow and end up running the red.

The cars likely did cut in line because you were on a bike and not aggressively in the intersection, reasoning (if you can call it that) that you would go slowly through and would hold them up. But (of course) that does not entitle them to cut in front of you or the other cars.

As far as the future, unless police were to actually ticket for infractions like that (and I'd be pretty sure it was against the law in your situation and the one I saw), 'no harm no foul.' So unlikely there is anything to be done.

GriddleCakes

They most likely understood what you were doing, they just disagreed with how you were doing it. A lot of motorists will pull into the intersection to wait for either a gap in traffic or for the light to change, which ever comes first. It's a type A versus type B driver situation, as I understand it. The drivers that passed you were unwilling to wait another light cycle, and had no problem hanging out in the intersection (is this dangerous? it always struck me as a dangerous position) and risking running a red light if oncoming traffic didn't cease before the light changed.

You got passed by a couple of impatient motorists, and I don't think that there was anything you could do to prevent it except pulling the same type A move that they did, before they did it. At least they were putting themselves at risk (physically? definitely legally), and not you. I wouldn't have done anything different than what you did.

This might vary from state to state. I was in the passenger seat as a state trooper explained to my girlfriend that she shouldn't wait in the intersection, and that by being in the intersection while the light was red she had technically run a red light. She was let off with out a ticket, but my roommate wasn't so lucky when he was caught doing the same thing next summer. The practice is pretty ubiquitous around here, but so are a number of common driving practices that are illegal. As a defensive driver, I never stop or linger in the intersection. It just seems like a bad idea.

unterhausen

it says to pull into the intersection to wait to make a left turn in the PA driver's handbook. In most cases, if you don't do that you are really holding up traffic.

GriddleCakes

Huh, the AK driver's manual says the same thing. I guess Nick should've fought the ticket. I still don't feel comfortable sitting in the intersection, though, and I don't really care if I'm holding traffic up by one car length.

tero

I'd say it really depends on your local applicable traffic laws and your own judgment. I believe in general you are allowed to "break" the rules if you sincerely think that obeying the law to the letter would risk someone's safety. At least that's how it damn well should be.

Sitting in a busy intersection, as a cyclist, is not a safe place. Especially if there's any issues with visibility. I would do exactly as the OP did. If you get a ticket for that, well, in that case the law should be changed.

In Korea, most taxi drivers are guilty of pulling in front of other turning cars. As a cyclist, it's very disconcerting because it makes it so much more difficult to predict how the other cars are going to behave.

Digital_Cowboy

A couple of years ago I was going to the site of a geocahce and I had some fool do the same thing. He thought that I was taking too long to make a left turn from the left hand turn lane and he pulls up on my left and makes a turn.

The place that he was in such an all-fire hurry to get to was the McD's to get to the drive-thru to get presumably a hamburger. And as in your situation there was one or more cars headed south that I didn't want to take the chance "meeting" in the middle. I will make a left turn in that type of situation only when I feel that it is safe for me to do so. And I'll be damned if I am going to let some bloody cager hurry me into making a move that could result in my getting injured or worse.

Digital_Cowboy

I generally do do that, but there are times and intersections where it is neither prudent or safe to do that. And that it is better to wait behind the stop line for another cycle before making one's turn. And in my case given that mister personality actually challenged me to a fight with him I don't think that other then not being on "his" road. That there is/was anything that I could have done that would have made him happy. And besides that fact that:

a) I didn't consider it worthy of fighting over
b) Not a fighter by nature (yes I know flipping drivers off might suggest otherwise)
c) Was wearing spandex so didn't have much protection

I just went on my way to where I was going anyway and let him think that he "won" something when he really didn't.

noisebeam

Was your safety compromised?

AlmostTrick

You may actually be facilitating better traffic flow. By waiting back at the stop line one can cut a shorter gap because they can get a rolling start. I almost always wait at the line and see the driver in the middle of the intersection miss many gaps that I easily could have made.

Even if legal, I highly doubt that you are ever required to enter the intersection in this situation. By staying back you also have less chance of being involved in a collision when the middle hanger gets whacked.

EDIT: If there is a person in the oncoming left turn lane you will also have better sight lines by staying back. The common situation of two vehicles nose to nose waiting to turn means neither driver can see squat.

wheel

this is why I favor a green turn arrow signal at the end of the green light phase.

noisebeam

yes

but on the rolling start... just be careful you don't send warning signs to the thru drivers coming the other way

noisebeam

at least we get to mix it up depending what city we are driving thru

AlmostTrick

Good point. As long as you are just rolling forward (no hard "jump") and you don't turn your wheel, it doesn't seem to faze 'em.

Chalupa102

Thanks for all the feedback guys.


Personally my safety wasn't at that time.

SlimAgainSoon

I've had this happen.

In my case, I rode into the intersection (as someone recommended here).

Car still pulled up and around me.

Freaked me out!

noisebeam

Which probably means you don't need to do anything in response.

But it is worth considering the ways how your safety could be reduced - then if you can't take actions to prevent the situation from happening to consider what actions (either physical or mental) you need to take to address the safety risk from the new situation.

I've seen the situation where a motorist is out in intersection waiting for a gap to turn left and the motorist behind them turns left, not waiting for their turn. There is risk to others nearby due to increased potential for collision, for example if the the driver behind misjudged the gap the driver ahead had decided not to turn across or if the driver ahead started to turn as the driver behind did.

rumrunn6

you did the right thing
they failed
you can't stop this from happening

crackerdog

I would look up the law in your state and follow that. If anyone gives you grief, including a cop, you are in the right with the caveat, only if it is safe.

Digital_Cowboy

Did you mean me? Yes, I believe that by his actions my safety was or could have been compromised as I was in the designated left turn lane and he had to cross the double yellow line in order to pass me.

rumrunn6

I assumed they passed you on your right but they passed you on your left?!!!!??? THAT'S NUTS!

ItsJustMe

Heck, I once had an idiot pass me on the left while I was starting a left turn in my CAR with the turn signals on. Would have been a nice accident had I not been paying attention and seen him pulling around (at high speed).

Ajenkins

They're motons. You can't expect smart from an eggplant.

genec

And yet there are those that still contend that motorists are predictable...