You're on a bike, take advantage of that. Just like drivers take advantage of all the speed and pass you on the roads, you can take advantage of your size and pass them when you can. Not filtering is about the dumbest thing you can do, especially if you miss the green light because you had to wait.

Aside from the leapfrogging problem I have mentioned with Genec, the other problem I have with filtering is that can be hypocritical. Do you maintain a 3 foot clearance from vehicles on your left and right when you filter to the front between lanes?

roughstuff

you think safe passing distances are the same for a motor vehicle passing a pedestrian or bicycle versus a bicycle passing a motorist?

a car is not a vulnerable road user. but a bicyclist is.

Bicyclists allowances in determining safe passing distance of a stopped car should be 'practicable' rather than the public safety standards established for motor vehicle operators overtaking or operating in close proximity of an unprotected HPV operator or pedestrian.

No, but:

1. I don't pass them at a speed difference of 30 miles an hour either.

2. My air-blast effect passing stationary tractor trailers is pretty minimal, as far as I know.

Or, a though experiment: At 15 mph, who could pass the closest to a pole without hitting it... a motorists sitting six feet away from their right-side mirror, or a cyclist looking down at their right handlebar?

Put another way, I don't mind when cyclists and motorcyclists, or even small cars, pass closer, or way closer than 3' at low overtaking speeds.

It's the BMW SUVs and rusty white contracting trucks doing 50 MPH+ that I'd like more separation from.

it ain't horseshoes or hand grenades, bek...almost doesn't count.
If 3 foot is good for the goose, it should be good for the gander.

Indeed, if we are so vulnerable <shiver> we shouldn't get within a mile of any of those big bad cars! :twitchy:

Since you mentioned me, and the gap, the only time I filter is when there is a bike lane that allows me a nice wide gap. That and when traffic is at a dead standstill and not moving... when I could filter as a virtual pedestrian and still beat the folks stuck in cages.

Well, I was gonna goose the gander too, Chip...but i wanted to make a slightly different point.

Ok: then the distance a which a vehicle gives clearance should depend on factors such as size, weight, and draft. Why, then, do cyclist groups go gaga over a flat 3 foot rule?

Everyone wants the rules to be read in their favor. A car passing me going 50 mph isn't using some kind of mysterious privilege or entitlement to get by...its plainly and simply doing what is a basic maneuver. Otherwise traffic will get dumbed down to the slowest of roadway users, and I can't imagine a faster way to get bicycles banned from roadways entirely than some cockamamie idea that we can slow traffic to pedaling speed.

And all this garbage about weight, and draft, and all that, is simply refusing to admit that you ride a more dangerous vehicle (a bicycle) than an auto or truck is. You are on two wheels, they are on four or more.

If my lane---a bike lane, or more frequently in my rural case, the shoulder---is open, then I ride to the front of the line of cars to my left as I approach a red light. If I see right turn signals, especially if it is a big vehicle or a school bus, for example, I often decide discretion is the better part of valour, and hang back in order to avoid a right hook.

roughstuff

I dunno...the three foot rule craze seems to be a pretty recent fad...perhaps because so many middle-aged folks are getting back on bicycles and finding the roads a bit more unnerving than they remembered the sidewalks being when they were kids. You tell me.

My point to Bek is that bikes should keep a prudent distance when passing cars too...especially if filtering. Ya just never know when a door is going to open, a jaywalking ped is going to dart out from between cars or some mutt is gonna decide he wants to swing out of the lane, etc.

Sorry, but I bristle every time I hear folks complaining about feeling exposed or being passed too close. IMO, if they didn't touch you or cause you to take evasive action or go off your line, it wasn't too close. Acting like helpless victims only ensures that we will forever be considered helpless victims...and perhaps ultimately become one.

If one doesn't feel comfortable being exposed, perhaps a bike isn't a wise transportation choice for him/her.

Now let's get back to goosing my gander...it sounds kinda kinky!

PS: I consider two wheels an advantage and safer than 4 or more. YMMV

That's how I feel too. If I whined every time a car passed close in L.A., I'd be grumpy all the time.

Not to go off on a tangent, but watching someone just now dash across our parking lot with a book over their head, after waiting for at least 10 minutes in their car for the rain to subside first, begs the question: when did we humans become so fearful of the elements and dependent upon being sheltered from them at all times?

(not saying that cars are as harmless as rain, roughstuff, just feel like ranting a bit ;) )

While the waiting may be driven by discomfort of the elements, I view the head covering to be more an emotional/social signaling response to the frustration the rain and resulting wait caused.

I see it as being afraid of getting a little wet...like I did as they watched (from their car) me walk out to my bike, put my cover on my Brooks, and walk back in, no coat, no hat, no running. It's only water. While it may not be real good for my saddle, it ain't gonna hurt me.


...unless it was acid rain.

OMG YOU DON'T THINK IT WAS ACID RAIN, DO YA, AL?

;)

Spandex and kink are kissin' cousins, Chipcom...at least out here in the boonies where I live. I am not sure why ya consider 2 wheels safer. I can see the mobility that it might give you, and dexterity, which can translate into safety as long as contact is avoided. Once it occurs however, two wheels really suck.

roughstuff

Beats me.

I sometimes find a tractor-trailer passing 3 feet 1 inch away with a 80kph differential on a windy day un-nerving. A Yaris 2' from me at 30kph, notsomuch.


A trait hardly unique to this thread.

I'd call it physics. Like I said, closer passes by motorcyclists rarely concern me, cause I know in an accident they're probably going down too.

I don't think "dangerous" it the right word.

The fact that we are exposed to our environment, rather than a spectator in a little box, plus slower speeds, better maneuverability and mobility, etc. tend to help reduce the chances of that contact happening at all, IMO. I've got a lot of miles operating both...if I have my druthers I'druther be on a bike. ;)

Yeah, spandex seems to bring out the love in these parts too, so I only wear it when I want to treat the world to my good and plenty.

Yo, too much info! ;)

Don't hate me cuz I'm beautiful, Gene. :p

Well Chipcom don't scare the kiddies!

I was in a coffee shop one day skin tight and splayed out, when this lady answered her cell phone and her husband told her to pick up some buns! WE all had a good laugh.


and all that, is simply refusing to admit that you ride a more dangerous vehicle (a bicycle) than an auto or truck is.

Well, more risky is perhaps more precise. While the issue is exhaustively discussed in other threads, when controlling for velocity i would imagine a bicycle is far more dangerous than a car.

roughstuff

I can only go by personal experience.

Bike: over 40 years, 1 traffic accident, no hospitalization required
Motorcycle: over 30 years, 1 traffic accident, no hospitalization required
Car/Truck: over 30 years, 4 traffic accidents, no hospitalization required, though 1 deer was killed.

The two wheelers have a 2-1 advantage over the 4 wheelers, so far, and no wildlife was harmed by the two-wheelers. :thumb:

YMMV of course

Yeah I know Ken Kifer got killed by a drunk driver, but his piece on cycling risk is still relevant.
http://www.kenkifer.com/bikepages/health/risks.htm

lol what for? A cager sitting on his chair with his thumb up his nose doesn't care whether im 10 or 1 feet away. On a bicycle however the difference is huge. Ridiculous you want to even compare the two. And no, i squeeze between the cars with inches to spare, cutting my handlebars helped a lot with that.

Isn't it a bad thing that we've become so desensitized? Every so often I do get passed really really close, but it doesn't do anything to me except make me pissed. It doesn't even scare me anymore. I'm uncomfortable with that

Well said.

http://clerk.ci.seattle.wa.us/~scrip...e1.htm&r=1&f=G

If you can pass on the right safely, you can do so. I do it in certain circumstances, like in game day traffic in which traffic volumes have fully caused massive backups and cars cannot proceed through green lights. And always use common sense.

Seattle Municipal Code

Information retrieved May 11, 2010 7:51 PM
Title 11 - VEHICLES AND TRAFFIC
Subtitle I Traffic Code*
Part 4 Pedestrian, Hitchhiking, Bicycle, EPAMD and Motorized Foot Scooter
Rules
Chapter 11.44 - Bicycle Rules
SMC 11.44.080 Overtaking and passing on right.

The operator of a bicycle may overtake and pass a vehicle or a bicycle upon
the right only under conditions permitting such movement in safety.

(Ord. 108200 Section 2(11.44.080), 1979.)

Yea, but it hasn't been established that 3 foot laws are good for the goose. Often people think they can solve problems by passing laws but a lot of the times they can't.

I'd argue that 3 foot laws are just your typical well-intentioned but over-simplistic and unenforceable laws. A lot depends on speed. A safe passing distance at 10 mph is not necessarily safe at 50 mph.

I'm of the "no harm, no foul" school although, if an SUV passes me at 30 mph and their side-view mirror hits my arm, I do think that's a little close, even though I was unhurt / I've had that happen- I wasn't too pissed because I don't think they did it on purpose- it was just a lousy driver.