Interesting paradox
 

I just went to my first Critical Mass in Edmonton, and it was a great time. Most motorists in the city seem to respect the event. The interesting thing was meeting an avid masser who's been to a dozen or so rides, who confesses to be a sidewalk bicyclist, and can't understand why cyclists would want to ride on the road. He's a great guy, but I thought his opinions were rather interesting for someone who so often supports mass rides.:backpedal:

He must just be there for the group dynamics; riding in a crowd of what he sees as basically like-minded people (i.e., they all ride), gives him a sense of belonging to something. Otherwise, he's hardly ever coming up out of his storm cellar.

That's like a dentist and a surgeon. A pair of docs.

-Kurt

It's not really a paradox at all -- he likes riding his bike, but he's afraid of cars. (Sure, the sidewalk is more likely to have him collide with a car, but he hasn't realized that.)

Critical Mass insulates him from the cars and lets him ride in the street.

I've run into a lot of people who like Critical Mass because they feel "safe" during it. (Personally, I don't really see it. I think the risk of a collision with another bicycle (probably ridden by an inexperienced rider) far more than makes up for any reduction in risk of collision with a car, but that position probably isn't obvious to somebody who hasn't gotten past their irrational (some fear is appropriate, but many people go way too far) fear of cars.)

I've just in the last year or so become a "full-time" vehicular cyclist and I can't see going back. The sidewalk is slow, bumpy, doesn't always have a dropped curb at intersections(which for anyone without suspension and bomb proof rims means slowing to a crawl to drop off the curb or dismounting alltogether), is full of pedestrians, busy driveways and parking lot entrances. It just makes so much more sense to be on the road considering all the time you'll save and the poor pedestrians you won't scare or engrage. :rolleyes:

My eyes perk up when I see those loaded words..."confessed". I ride the sidewalk. I ride the road. Trails. Everywhere i want to. I'm not confessin' just sayin'

Sidewalks are legal here (outside the 'business district'), and some of them are in such poor shape that they make great substitutes for trails! Likewise, some streets are so choked with poor drivers/lack of enforcement that cycling on them is suicide during some times of day. So, yeah -- I will ride wherever.

Ah Ha, a paradox within a paradox... the potential for being seriously hurt by a collision with another cyclist is vastly lower than that of a similar collision with a much larger, heavier and faster vehicle that will impart all of it's force into the cyclist.

When two cyclists collide, the energy of that collision is rather equally shared between the two like masses. When a cyclist collides with a motor vehicle, the larger mass distributes it's forces into the smaller mass... the cyclist. So while the odds of colliding with another cyclist may increase when there are large numbers of cyclists, the odds of a serious injury diminish.

Scratches, scrapes and skinned knees are not the same injuries as broken bones and serious contusions. This is also why MUPs are in fact safer than streets, in spite of the potential for "more collisions."

One also has to consider the potential energy of the speed of colliding vehicles... where a motor vehicle can easily move at speeds well over 25MPH and impart all that energy into a cyclist, such speeds are rare on sidewalks and MUPs for cyclists and pedestrians.

"Risk of Collision" should be evaluated by potential of serious injury. Not just the likelihood of a bump... other wise, walking in a large crowd carries the highest risk of "a collision," but few people are ever injured by bumping into one another in crowds.

Not the position I would have expected from you.

I'm referring specifically to big, chaotic group rides like Critical Mass or the "Full Moon Cruise" that happens in Austin the night of the full moon. Hundreds of bikes, often going fast (especially if there's a hill to go down.) Lots of people who only ride once a month and really don't have much clue how to ride, let alone ride in a group. Relatively few helmets (these are the situations where a helmet might help!) Lots of brakeless fixies (in Austin, perhaps 20% of the bikes I see on these rides are brakeless fixies?) Lots of people drunk and/or high. And then you're riding around in a pretty random matter, generally ignoring stop signs and red lights, assuming that the cars will stop. And while you may just be there to ride, others may be there to screw with drivers -- making them mad at all these bikes on the road. Most of the drivers around are somewhere between amused and annoyed -- but a few get mad, and a very few will do stupid stuff. A motorist pulled out a gun here back in March.
Thanks for the physics lesson, dad. But consider the statistics -- if the risk of an accident is 50x larger, but the accidents are on average 1/10th as bad -- which situation is more dangerous?

My point is that the "mass rides" (the term used by the original poster) are often more dangerous than riding by yourself, and the number of incidents I've seen is significant. People on bikes collide, then somebody falls into the ground, hits their head. Somebody's bike falls over to the side, and his drop bar goes into the front wheel of the bike next to him, which immediately does an "endo". Somebody runs over a speed bump and fall over, hitting their head. A few people get hit, seemingly intentionally, by a car (and then the driver pulls out a gun after being confronted by a bunch of angry cyclists after he finds that he can't flee.) I've seen people break their arm in a fall and keep riding. I've seen several incidents where ambulances are called and people go off to the hospital. I had somebody fall into me one evening and I fell off my bike and hurt my tailbone. (It was pretty minor, but it was the first time I got hurt by somebody else.)

And yet I've never seen a lone cyclist hit by a car in a significant way, including myself. I know I've been lucky, but I also know it's not just luck.

I do enjoy these mass rides, so I've been on a lot of them, but I am aware of the risk, and feel that the overall risk is a lot higher than it is when I'm just riding by myself somewhere. I'm not the drunk jerk who doesn't know how to ride and thinks brakes are uncool -- but that might be him next to me. And yet I've heard many people tell me how "safe" they feel on these rides, how they're safe from cars ...

Hold on there Hoss... I am not supporting CM... I am merely disputing the typical "accident statistics" crap that is spewed out here from time to time.

So a motorist with a gun makes this a bad situation... not the fact that you are cycling in a crowd. Just how many cyclists are seriously injured on such rides? Broken bones?? Deaths???


Depends on what you mean by "dangerous..." if all you do is equate every scratch with a broken leg or severe head injury... then by sheer numbers alone, the mass rides and MUPs and sidewalks are more dangerous... just as walking in a crowd is going to get you bumped more often than walking alone.

But if you factor in the reality of the severity of the injury... and consider recovery time... then the mass rides and riding on MUPs etc, are in reality a lot safer than cycling solo on a roadway with motor traffic.

But the folks that just toss stats out don't consider severity... just numbers. They ignore the severity of injuries. 700 or cyclists are killed each year by motorists... but how many cyclists are killed by other cyclists or pedestrians... perhaps 1-2.

Being hit by a car is more likely to result in a severe injury than being hit by a fellow cyclist. Spending weeks recovering is more down time than putting on a new bandaid from time to time.


OK now we are pulling out anecdotal evidence... fine. I have been hit by cars three times in my life... every one totaled my bike. One put me in a hospital and resulted in 2 surgeries and months of recovery time.

Group rides have only resulted in one incident... in which a single rider was injured (paceline in Mexico on a long tour with others). He was on his bike the next day... and finished the tour... no hospital time involved... I didn't even get a scratch.

Jostling in crowds both here and abroad has resulted in many "collisions," but never a single injury.

Looking at the numbers alone, the jostling in crowds resulted in far more "collisions" and therefore, by the numbers is "more dangerous... " Not hardly.

The severity of injury is also a issue... and injuries due to motor vehicles collisions kill more cyclists than injuries due to cyclists colliding with peds or cyclists.

Again, I am not supporting CM, nor these unorganized, even drunken mass cycle rides... But I am disputing the stats that tend to be tossed about while discussing cycling injuries and "danger," while also ignoring the severity of potential injuries.

I'll take the injuries one may incur on an MUP any day over the injuries that may occur from being hit by a car.

I'm not saying you're supporting CM or don't support CM or anything along those lines. More, I'm surprised that you seem to be saying that cyclists don't injure themselves or other cyclists in any significant number.

The OP said "mass rides" -- I don't know if he meant Critical Mass type rides or not. (I would expect your typical large charity ride with closed streets to be relatively safe.) But Critical Mass puts a bunch of cyclists in the road, generally disobeying certain traffic laws, many riders are unskilled, may be intoxicated, the motorists may be riled up. My experience (anecdotes, yes) tells me that this is a more dangerous situation than a single cyclist riding down the same roads. And just because you're surrounded by other bikes, that doesn't mean you're protected from cars. I remember a case where a cop pulled his car out and hit one of the bikers that was trailing at the back of the 200 riders -- he just assumed all the cyclists were done without looking. (The cyclist wasn't injured, but his wheel was taco'd. The police admitted fault, but refused to pay for the wheel on the grounds that the cyclist's lights were on his person rather than mounted to the bike. The cyclist won on appeal and got his damages paid.)
Right, but the crowd lead to his actions. He didn't shoot anybody, the cyclists he struck with his truck just had some scrapes, so it was just the potential for harm, but yes, I do feel that the "mass ride" lead to a dangerous situation. You can argue about who's fault it was, but a single cyclist probably wouldn't have had any problem there. (There were those two cyclists stabbed yesterday, but the article made it sound like a typical roadie ride rather than a Critical Mass type ride, so I doubt it's really relevant to my point here.)
I've seen a number of broken bones -- wrists, arms and collarbones mostly. For the most part, the people who have been injured had been drinking -- so staying sober would seem to increase your safety, which certainly makes sense. Haven't seen any deaths.
Most people who toss stats only look at deaths -- mostly because that's what's accurately counted, Injuries are not accurately counted.
I don't know the exact figures, but way more than two cyclists per year are killed in the US in accidents that don't involve cars.
I tend to believe that this sort of group ride is a lot safer than what I was talking about -- riders are more uniformly skilled, I doubt anybody is drunk, traffic laws are obeyed most of the time, bikes are better maintained, no brakeless fixies, etc.
Personally, I feel safer riding on a street than a sidewalk or MUP. Motorists are relatively predictable. Pedestrians, children, dogs on leashes or not on leashes -- not so much. But yes, the average injury is likely to be less serious.

MUPs also cross streets, often with minimal or even sometimes unclear traffic control at that intersection.

I did. I ride VC probably 90-95% of the time, but there are times where the sidewalk is, in my mind, the best option. I try to always use the best option for a given route. One that I use with some regularity is a sidewalk on a busy road on a bridge over the river. The speed limit is 40, but because there is no cross traffic on the bridge people get going as fast as 60 on the bridge. Sorry, I don't want to be in the traffic lane for that. I also use a few parking lot cut-throughs, pop a curb here and there. VC is great, but it's just one tool in the toolbox and I don't want to limit myself to just that one tool.

That's one thing they definitely got right here in Fort Worth. The major MUP follows the Trinity River around here. At almost all places where it crosses a road, it is where there is a bridge over the river. They just run the MUP under the bridge along with the river and there are no intersections unless you take the ramp up to street level, and then it's pretty clear who has the right of way because the MUP ends at the street.

On the dowtown streets where most critical mass rides take place, speed differentials are low and roadway cycling is arguably at its peak safety benefit when compared to sidewalk cycling, due to all the intersection conflicts. Riding on the roadway alone lawfully on the same streets is probably just as safe as doing it as part of a CM ride, especially if one is assertive in lane use at narrow lanes and intersections.

The biggest injuries on group rides are normally from falls but can be serious. Cyclist catches a curb or another cyclist's tire. Such falls seem to be more serious on bikes than among pedestrians. Any runners have experience with fall injury statistics in road races?

The key to what I am saying is in this phrase... "any significant number."


As I have stated over and over again, if all you look at are the numbers... then every scratch and scrape add up to higher numbers.

But if you consider the seriousness of the injury, cyclists DO NOT harm themselves and others as much as motor vehicles harm cyclists and others.

Take away the phrase "any significant number," and substitute "in a serious and significant manner."

Ask the question... how many cyclists were killed by cyclists in any year... and compare that to the number of cyclists killed by motor vehicles in any year!

This is why the one person mentioned in the OP stated "it was safer." Cuts and bruises don't matter... you walk away from those... Hard to walk away from a deadly injury.

I too wonder what the real numbers are... But we know about 700 cyclists are killed each year by motorists... and a couple by trains... the latter hardly the train's "fault." The real question is how many cyclists are killed by other cyclists. I am willing to bet that number is less than a handful each year in the US.

The average speed at a Critical Mass ride is about 6 mph. The only way to achieve enough ( eg 'critical' ) mass is to ride at a speed everybody is capable of, so the group can stay together.

The reason Critical Mass riders cork intersections is to avoid exactly the situation you've just described.

I helped lead a government-sanctioned "Bike To Work Week" kickoff bike ride in Downtown Raleigh. The organizers intended for the whole group to stay together, but the more experienced commuters in the group got bored with the pace of the slowest riders and broke off the front into a separate group after a couple of miles. I stayed with the slow group, which included a guy on a kick scooter. I enjoyed the socializing, but it certainly wasn't the pace that the more experienced cyclists had expected. How does Critical Mass keep the more capable cyclists at 6 MPH?

Interestingly, the Raleigh PD had some bike cops ride with the group, and they corked the intersections for us in some locations, and used their special keys to change the traffic signals in others.

At least in Austin, it doesn't, and I've no experience with other cities. The moving average speed is more like 10-11 mph or so, and even so, there are plenty of people who speed ahead, and a few who lag behind. Corking is certainly done, but it's not always done -- and yet most riders ride along as if the route was fully corked. I don't know if this is typical or not.

It's chaotic, it's fun -- but there's an element of danger that doesn't exist when you're just riding by yourself or on the more "organized" rides.

The average speed is about 6 mph over the course of a ride; I'd have to check my GPS track logs to get something more specific, since that's from memory. But the group rides much more slowly than a single rider without much experience. I've heard people complain about this pretty often on their first Critical Mass ride.

They don't actually hold capable cyclists back ... there's no leadership, or set of rules, etc. But, at least in Seattle ( and several years ago in San Francisco ) this tends to happen on its own. It's a social event, and a celebration of bike culture, so people tend to want to stay with the crowd. The one thing CM does to help this, is for people in the back to start yelling "MASS UP" when they feel the group has become too stringy. Which happens pretty often - a dozen or two times per ride. That's pretty much universally accepted; when people in the front hear the call, they'll stop and wait for everyone else to catch up, and only start moving again when the crowd does.

Of course a few people get impatient, and spin off on their own ride. But since there's no established route, leaving the group means it will be hard to find them again. ( Riders in Seattle tend to head out from the urban core, and seem more interested in finding a park with a nice view than fouling up traffic. ) Most people who come, do it for the fun of the large group ride, and understand that it will be a slow one; they come anyway, and accept it.

So, it just hasn't been an issue here, keeping a slow average. With all the hills, and accepting anyone who shows up on a bike, it probably couldn't happen any other way.

All sounds like similar experiences to my CM ride. Our group was (from what I heard) unusually small, 25-35 people, where as the June-August rides can number up to 200 people in Edmonton. Corking for us was only necessary for left-hand turns, since the green lights for those turns at intersections were very short, even for our small group. Alberta is quite loose on enforcement of sidewalk bicycling, I can't think of anyone I know who's received a sidewalk ticket (about $50-70). Only in the downtown core of Edmonton and the art market district of Whyte Ave will you find stricter enforcement. We have a "semi-no sidewalk law" in Alberta, being that only bicycles with wheels 20in in diameter or smaller are permitted on the sidewalk, meaning BMX riders are free to use them. On Whyte Avenue I hear the Cycling/Skateboarding/Rollerblading ticket is something around $100-250. Ouch.