Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Advocacy & Safety
Reload this Page >

Accident - newspaper article and iPod use

Search
Notices
Advocacy & Safety Cyclists should expect and demand safe accommodation on every public road, just as do all other users. Discuss your bicycle advocacy and safety concerns here.

Accident - newspaper article and iPod use

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 06-16-10, 07:12 AM
  #1  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
JonnyHK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: London
Posts: 2,420

Bikes: Baum Romano, Brompton S2, Homemade Bamboo!

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 474 Post(s)
Liked 204 Times in 129 Posts
Accident - newspaper article and iPod use

From The Age newspaper, Melbourne Australia. An article about a bike accident featuring commentary of iPod usage.

Warning - moderately gruesome picture with article (no red stuff, but injured person 'in-situ' with tram, bit freaky)

Not mentioned in article, but I add: I know this intersection very well as it is 500m from my childhood home and there is no way the rider and tram hit each other unless one of them was going against a red light signal.

Headphone danger warning after cyclist using iPod hit by tram
MEGAN LEVY
June 16, 2010 - 5:10PM

Cyclists who wear headphones while riding are increasing their risk of being involved in a serious crash, according to a transport safety expert.

The warning comes after a 45-year-old man cycled into the path of a tram while listening to his iPod in Melbourne’s south today.

The Windsor man was pushed along the tram tracks after he was struck on the corner of Williams and Dandenong roads in St Kilda East just before 1pm.

Paramedics say he was lucky to escape with only bruising to his leg and a sore knee in an accident that has put the spotlight on the divisive issue.

A Victoria Police spokeswoman said it was legal to ride a bike while listening through headphones.

However, Marilyn Johnson, a researcher at Monash University’s Accident Research Centre, said cyclists were already vulnerable on the roads and needed all of their senses to avert a possible tragedy.

She said many cyclists felt they needed their hearing to navigate through the traffic, while others said listening to music relieved boredom and the drone of the roads.

While there was no legislation banning the use of headphones on bicycles, Ms Johnson believed it was an unsafe practice.

"I think it’s dangerous enough when you’re cycling to be on the road when drivers aren’t looking out for you, and there other things that are going on around you, be it a pothole in the road or merging traffic," she said.

"For you to have one of your senses removed by being distracted with sound, I don’t think it’s a safe behaviour for cyclists."

Senior Constable Greg Oxnan said the man had been cycling along Williams Road while listening to his iPod and did not see or hear the tram in front of him.

Yarra Trams spokesman Colin Tyrus said the man rode into the path of the route 64 tram, which was bound for East Brighton.

He was knocked off his bike and pushed forward along the tracks, Ambulance Victoria spokesman Paul Bentley said.

The bicycle remained wedged in front of the tram while paramedics treated the man at the scene for bruising to his leg and knee.

He was taken to The Alfred hospital in a stable condition.

Mr Tyrus said route 64 trams were diverted via Balaclava Road, and route 5 trams via High Street, while the accident was cleared.

Bicycle Victoria has been contacted for comment.
JonnyHK is offline  
Old 06-16-10, 09:32 AM
  #2  
for affordable housing
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 329
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
"Man hit while wearing headphones" - implied is that the latter caused the former. Post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy - correlation != causation.
4000Miles is offline  
Old 06-16-10, 09:35 AM
  #3  
www.theheadbadge.com
 
cudak888's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southern Florida
Posts: 28,513

Bikes: https://www.theheadbadge.com

Mentioned: 124 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2422 Post(s)
Liked 4,395 Times in 2,092 Posts
To say nothing of motorists fiddling with their iPods while driving, fiddling with their cell phones while driving, and reaching for that three-year-old Milk Dud wedged under the passenger's seat while driving.

-Kurt
__________________












cudak888 is offline  
Old 06-16-10, 10:29 AM
  #4  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 397
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
mmmm milk duds.
SCROUDS is offline  
Old 06-16-10, 10:37 AM
  #5  
Senior Member
 
Seattle Forrest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 23,208
Mentioned: 89 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18883 Post(s)
Liked 10,646 Times in 6,054 Posts
Originally Posted by cudak888
To say nothing of motorists fiddling with their iPods while driving, fiddling with their cell phones while driving, and reaching for that three-year-old Milk Dud wedged under the passenger's seat while driving.
Driving with headphones is illegal in this country, and using a cell phone while driving is also illegal in many states ( with a bluetooth loophole ). The fact that some motorists do it doesn't mean it's safe for cyclists to. Are you in favor of blowing through red lights, too?
Seattle Forrest is offline  
Old 06-16-10, 11:56 AM
  #6  
Randomhead
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Happy Valley, Pennsylvania
Posts: 24,396
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked 3,696 Times in 2,517 Posts
Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest
Driving with headphones is illegal in this country, and using a cell phone while driving is also illegal in many states ( with a bluetooth loophole ). The fact that some motorists do it doesn't mean it's safe for cyclists to. Are you in favor of blowing through red lights, too?
trying to remember what logical fallacy this represents. Can we avoid putting words in other people's mouths? The "S" in A&S needs to be changed to "semantics" after the way things have been going in here.
unterhausen is offline  
Old 06-16-10, 11:56 AM
  #7  
Randomhead
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Happy Valley, Pennsylvania
Posts: 24,396
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked 3,696 Times in 2,517 Posts
Since the forum software doubled my post, I'll just say that I can't imagine wearing an ipod while riding a bike. Hearing isn't 100% effective, but it does give significant cues to other traffic. Having said that, ipod use seems to follow cluelessness to some degree. At least that's my observation with pedestrians using them.

Last edited by unterhausen; 06-16-10 at 11:59 AM.
unterhausen is offline  
Old 06-16-10, 01:14 PM
  #8  
Senior Member
 
Seattle Forrest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 23,208
Mentioned: 89 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18883 Post(s)
Liked 10,646 Times in 6,054 Posts
Originally Posted by unterhausen
trying to remember what logical fallacy this represents.
Let me know when you remember. I don't think this represents any logical fallacy; I believe it's a fair comparison, and I think if the answer is "yes," that some explanation is needed. I'd guess 99 % of A&S people are vehemently against blowing through red lights because it's dangerous and illegal (and, for some, because it frustrates other road users). All of these reasons for not liking one type of cyclist behavior also apply to the cyclist behavior we're talking about - riding with impaired hearing thanks to head phones. So, my question stands.
Seattle Forrest is offline  
Old 06-16-10, 01:24 PM
  #9  
Single-serving poster
 
electrik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 5,098
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Cyclists who wear headphones while riding are increasing their risk of being involved in a serious crash, according to a transport safety expert.
It's true, don't cross train tracks or streetcar tracks without looking about.

In regards to automobiles, i'm very skeptical... i doubt the car that hit you from behind sounds different than the car that passes you safely. It might feel that way, but often i'm wrong! You can't even hear hybrids... Always shoulder check before changing lane positions and if you want to listen to music don't crank it up, bad for your hearing! I often just leave one ear-bud in and one out if i want to listen to tunes.
electrik is offline  
Old 06-16-10, 02:03 PM
  #10  
Bike ≠ Car ≠ Ped.
 
BarracksSi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 13,861

Bikes: Some bikes. Hell, they're all the same, ain't they?

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked 5 Times in 4 Posts
Originally Posted by electrik
It's true, don't cross train tracks or streetcar tracks without looking about.
Exactly. Headphones don't cause blindness.

Well, unless he was also wearing those fancy meditation goggles with flashing lights:
https://www.toolsforwellness.com/75044.html

In regards to automobiles, i'm very skeptical... i doubt the car that hit you from behind sounds different than the car that passes you safely. It might feel that way, but often i'm wrong! You can't even hear hybrids... Always shoulder check before changing lane positions and if you want to listen to music don't crank it up, bad for your hearing! I often just leave one ear-bud in and one out if i want to listen to tunes.
Right -- and who's to say that the sound of the car just off your flank isn't being masked by the sounds of the one that just passed you, or the big diesel behind it, or the bus on the opposite side of the street, or the gusting wind in your ears...?

It's damned noisy out there sometimes. I've given up on trying to rely on my sense of hearing for my safety. I don't usually ride with music anyway, but when I don't, I still don't trust my hearing at all. I can always see what I might not hear.

Regarding the accident in the OP's article: it had nothing to do with the iPod and everything to do with him not following the rule every momma should tell her kids -- LOOK BOTH WAYS.
BarracksSi is offline  
Old 06-16-10, 02:10 PM
  #11  
www.theheadbadge.com
 
cudak888's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southern Florida
Posts: 28,513

Bikes: https://www.theheadbadge.com

Mentioned: 124 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2422 Post(s)
Liked 4,395 Times in 2,092 Posts
Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest
The fact that some motorists do it doesn't mean it's safe for cyclists to.
...and both should be held equally accountable, of which this article fails to acknowledge.

One would think, the way this article is written, that simultaneous iPod use - while operating any sort of vehicle - is some sort of unique, cyclist-only phenomenon.

It isn't.

-Kurt
__________________












cudak888 is offline  
Old 06-16-10, 05:18 PM
  #12  
Cycle Year Round
 
CB HI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Honolulu, HI
Posts: 13,644
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1316 Post(s)
Liked 92 Times in 59 Posts
Originally Posted by unterhausen
Since the forum software doubled my post,
You could try simply deleting the duplicate post.
CB HI is offline  
Old 06-16-10, 06:31 PM
  #13  
Randomhead
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Happy Valley, Pennsylvania
Posts: 24,396
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked 3,696 Times in 2,517 Posts
Originally Posted by CB HI
You could try simply deleting the duplicate post.
happens so often I get tired of that.
unterhausen is offline  
Old 06-17-10, 07:50 AM
  #14  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 397
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I think we use our hearing more then we give credit for. At work, I try and get outside and walk around, and around the side of the building is a not often used road/parking area and the AC units. I've been surprised many times by cars next to me that I couldn't hear. Ordinarily, i hear the car, then I look and confirm its there. Without hearing being on autopilot, i'd have to scan the area to catch things my ears would have. Basically its an intergrated system that works best with both parts providing info.
SCROUDS is offline  
Old 06-17-10, 09:16 PM
  #15  
Bike ≠ Car ≠ Ped.
 
BarracksSi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 13,861

Bikes: Some bikes. Hell, they're all the same, ain't they?

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked 5 Times in 4 Posts
Originally Posted by SCROUDS
I think we use our hearing more then we give credit for. At work, I try and get outside and walk around, and around the side of the building is a not often used road/parking area and the AC units. I've been surprised many times by cars next to me that I couldn't hear. Ordinarily, i hear the car, then I look and confirm its there. Without hearing being on autopilot, i'd have to scan the area to catch things my ears would have. Basically its an intergrated system that works best with both parts providing info.
So, you're saying that your ears aren't telling you enough info to keep you safe, and visual confirmation is always necessary.

I agree. Next time any of us are riding with someone else, we should try holding a conversation while paying close attention to how loudly we're actually talking.
BarracksSi is offline  
Old 06-17-10, 11:03 PM
  #16  
for affordable housing
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 329
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I am hearing impaired, and wear a hearing aid under normal circumstances. Unfortunately, it is difficult to wear one effectively while cycling because of the wind noise (imagine listening to a recording of someone blowing into a microphone during your entire ride). My hearing without the aid is not terribly effective in helping me determine what's going on around me (for the reasons mentioned above). As such, I'm constantly - and I do mean CONSTANTLY - checking behind me for cars, etc. With my eyes. As such, I've found that FOR ME, riding with headphones is perfectly safe provided they're at a reasonable level. I can still hear cars around me better than if I were encased in a steel box, hearing problems and headphones aside.
4000Miles is offline  
Old 06-18-10, 07:54 AM
  #17  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
JonnyHK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: London
Posts: 2,420

Bikes: Baum Romano, Brompton S2, Homemade Bamboo!

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 474 Post(s)
Liked 204 Times in 129 Posts
Originally Posted by 4000Miles
I am hearing impaired, and wear a hearing aid under normal circumstances. Unfortunately, it is difficult to wear one effectively while cycling because of the wind noise (imagine listening to a recording of someone blowing into a microphone during your entire ride). My hearing without the aid is not terribly effective in helping me determine what's going on around me (for the reasons mentioned above). As such, I'm constantly - and I do mean CONSTANTLY - checking behind me for cars, etc. With my eyes. As such, I've found that FOR ME, riding with headphones is perfectly safe provided they're at a reasonable level. I can still hear cars around me better than if I were encased in a steel box, hearing problems and headphones aside.
I'm guessing that you wouldn't miss a 20m long rectangular green thing that does 'ding, ding' approaching you. I think this cyclist had more going wrong than just wearing an iPod.
JonnyHK is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
fritz1255
Advocacy & Safety
99
04-17-13 09:45 PM
TromboneAl
Advocacy & Safety
33
03-11-13 02:20 PM
surgeonstone
Road Cycling
1
09-14-10 11:36 PM
stokell
Advocacy & Safety
5
04-26-10 02:27 AM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.