MacCruiskeen

[QUOTE=Feldman;11035362adhering fanatically to POSTED SPEED LIMITS and whenever we can get away with it driving 5mph slower than them. Chip away at that taboo with a bigger chisel![/QUOTE]

It seems that no matter how fast you are going, there is always someone who wants to go faster. I hate those guys who race right up to your bumper and start flashing their lights. I ignore them.

Digital_Cowboy

I like that idea. That would make a good PSA.

Digital_Cowboy

Exactly, even though some seem to think that their destination is more important than the next persons.

A couple years ago I was talking with a gal outside of the library that I go to. Who actually thought that in part that the reason that bikes didn't belong on the road is because people in cars were transporting things from point a to point b. She for whatever reason couldn't or didn't want to understand that those of us who ride bikes for transportation are doing the exact same thing.

I even tried to point out to her that when I'm pulling my trailer loaded with groceries, as well as having my pannier bags filled that my bike and me can/do weigh a couple of hundred pounds. And that it isn't that difficult for me to get up to and maintain a speed between 15 - 20+MPH. And at that speed and weight that I could very easily inflict serious injury on a pedestrian walking down the sidewalk.

Seattle Forrest

A lot of cyclists don't want to hear it. I found myself eating with two cyclists who were new to town; we were sharing our favorite routes, destinations, and such, and they told me how much friendlier Seattle is than where they came from. But of course it only takes one. When I told them that they have the right, under law, to take the lane, it was like I had three heads. They told me they don't want to do anything rude or aggressive, or to inconvenience people.

Digital_Cowboy

And sadly that is one of the trains of thought that we need to overcome.

As it suggests that just because we are on a bicycle instead of in a car or on a motorcycle that our destination and time is somehow less important than other road users. And as I am sure we know it is not being "rude, or aggressive, or inconveniencing people" to ride in a safe, and legal manner. Or rather it is "rude, aggressive, and an inconvenience" for motorists to think that their destination and time is more valuable than that of the person on the bicycle. And again it's that mindset that we have to overcome. And the only way that we can do that is through education, and a good tool for that would be PSAs on both the TV and radio.

sggoodri

I know a lot of people who, when driving their cars, get obsessed with tailgaters and spend more time looking in their rear view mirror and speedometer than looking at the road ahead of them.

Personally, I ignore tailgaters and just maintain a safe distance from the car in front of me. If there isn't one, which is often the case with tailgaters on two-lane roads, I punch the cruise control at 2 mph under the speed limit and ignore the rear view mirror. Why stress?

Seattle Forrest

I felt a little bit like the guy in the saying about horses and water. But on the other hand, I'm sure these people aren't dead today because they won't take the lane. They probably find cycling a lot more anxiety ridden than I do every now and then because of it, but taking the lane isn't like wearing a seat belt. At least on most urban streets with low limits imposed by traffic and not just by the posted limit.

Sometimes I think this ( meaning a lot of cycling safety - taking the lane in my example ) has almost nothing to do with education. Instead, I wonder if it's a personality thing, like introversion/extroversion. Maybe some people are inherently willing to put their own safety first on a regular basis, and others are more concerned by social etiquette? Or maybe some other concepts besides safety and politeness, make one person tend to ride a particular way, and another person differently?

chasm54

Embarrassment is a really interesting thing. An ex-girlfiriend of mine once walked out into the street and got hit by a bus. It threw her into a shop doorway and a concerned crowd gathered. She knew it had been her fault, she was embarrassed, so she jumped to her feet, insisted she was OK, brushed everyone off and walked away. Only when she was around the corner and away from all the fuss did she register that she had broken her arm.

Assertiveness is one of the secrets of life. Knowing how to do it without aggression, without unnecessarily upsetting people, but with a proper and uncompromising focus on one's own safety, is key to urban cycling. It isn't just a matter of personality, it can be learned.

Seattle Forrest

Oh, I don't doubt that it can be learned ... I'm curious, though, if some advanced psychologist visited us from the distant future, would they be able to look at us as kids, and predict which one of us will grow up to take the lane, and which won't? Might a lot of people learn to do it, but ultimately decide not to, for whatever reason? I took to taking the lane like a fish to water: "So you mean that's legal? I'll never ride on the edge of the road again!" I pull over to let people by when it's safe to and doesn't inconvenience me terribly, but otherwise, mid lane just feels like where I ought to be. And I'm wondering if that "feels like" point is a personality trait, maybe related to a person's tolerance for risk, and assessment of danger ( both of which are inherited to a large degree )? Or if it's really a matter of "Well this is where everybody tells me I'm supposed to be, so hugging the fog line it is."

Anyway, I'm curious about this.

chasm54

I can remember what it felt like to start commuting by bike in London, thirty years ago. There were fewer of us doing it then, and although I'd ridden a bike as a kid, this was different. Trust me when I say that London traffic makes NYC look like a cow town. It isn't that there's more of it, it's just that it all seems to be going in different directions. Anyway, for my first few journeys I doddered about in the gutter like the few other cyclists I saw. But after a short while it became clear to me that I was more at risk there than out in the traffic. Getting out in the middle of the road, overtaking on the right (we drive on the left, remember) where I could see and be seen, made me and everyone around me safer. Personality, or brains?

Seattle Forrest

Do you know Richard Dawkins?

Sorry - I couldn't help it. Maybe it was hearing the biggest city in Yankistan compared to a cowtown. Everybody who biked 30 years ago in the 'Isles must be acquainted, right? ( And Dawkins does mention being buzzed by drivers while commuting by bike 30 years ago, near Oxford, in one of his older books. )

Maybe a little of both. But what about the folks who just won't ride in the center of the lane, forcing cars to pass in a different lane, to avoid being buzzed? Some people won't do this because they think it will cause the driver to fly into a rage and kill them; a lot more people won't do it, but don't really have a reason why not.

I wonder, too, if the same thing applies to sidewalk cyclists, and the occasional salmon?

Digital_Cowboy

You make some good points, but by the same token educating the ignorant and naive motoring public about the rights of cyclists will also go a LONG ways into making the roads a safer place for everyone. And sadly (because a lot of folks don't understand things) that may mean doing things that some will interpret as being unsafe, illegal, or "wrong." And I agree that it isn't always safe to take the lane on every road no matter narrow or wide it may be.

And also sadly as we know there are WAY TOO many drivers out there who do not know (or care for that matter) that we as cyclists have as much right to be on the road as they do.

And that is where the education really comes into play.

satrain18

Not to mention it's easier to cause fatal collisions this way due to increased closing speeds which, therefore, create shorter reaction times and increased collision forces.
https://www.dailyrepublic.com/all-dr...g-hit-on-i-80/
Bicyclist riding wrong way hit and killed in Venice

CB HI

Zombie thread alert.
crhilton's last post was Aug 2011 and he is unlikely to see your post.