MilitantPotato

My roommate is pretty adamant about fighting our cities plan to install a entirely useless trolley infrastructure.

She's hoping to add stories, and hopefully pictures of accidents us cyclists are at risk of due to tracks running parallel to the roadway. Fear of litigation is a strong deterrent to many policy makers.

If you wish to include personal details with your story, pictures, or anything else you add, send them to me in a PM if you'd like.

We both thank you in advance.

Zizka

No story here. Just an old thread.
https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...e-injury-study
and
https://www.cher.ubc.ca/cyclinginciti...sification.pdf
To summarize very briefly, Toronto has a large network of street car tracks, and the tracks are a contributing factor in about one third of cyclists' trips to the ER.

JonnyHK 

There are a bunch of stories involving trams in Melbourne Australia.

Try looking up the main newspapers for articles - The Age and the Herald Sun. One street with lots of accidents is Swanston Street.

BengeBoy 

Some cyclists in Seattle recently filed suit against the city for accidents caused by the tracks of the Seattle Street Car. You can do a google search and find some newspaper stories and blog posts about these tracks. The streetcar is also known as the South Lake Union Trolley (****), so that may help you in the search (**** is not the official name; it's a local joke, many people call it that).

Edit: just noticed that BF won't let me spell out the acronym formed by South Lake Union Trolley. I'm assuming you can figure that out.

CB HI

https://bikeportland.org/2007/03/23/g...laim-a-victim/

rogwilco

Trolley tracks are an inconvenience for cyclists, but, even if you don't want to hear that, imo not a prohibitive one. My city has a huge trolley network and yes, I've slipped on the tracks once or twice myself (when it's wet you really have to be careful, especially when you have to cross the tracks more or less parallel), but I like them anyway. I think the advantages outweigh the problems, even for cyclists, because trolleys don't stink like buses do and they are much more predictable than cars - you always know where the trolley is.

Kneez

Is it St. Louis that is planning the trolley line? Can you provide a link. I'd like to learn more about it.

Kneez

Is this the project in question?

https://www.publicbroadcasting.net/kw...ederal.funding

SCROUDS

They make gap covers that can be installed over roadways that will give for trains/trolleys but will stand firm for bikes so they don't pinch the wheels and throw the riders. I think they should be mandatory for all urban non perpendicular track crossings.

BengeBoy 

Do you know any place where these are being used?

I tried doing some research on this six months ago or so to send to the city of Seattle but didn't get very far. I found a report that said it has been used somewhere in Europe but results were inconclusive, as I recall.

sm1960

I don't get it. This forum typically complains about cars behaving badly, but when an infrastructure change that can reduce the number of drivers on the road is proposed there are complaints about that also. I understand rail tracks are tricky to navigate, but isn't that better than the car?

Chicago Al 

The proposed trolley route is 2.1 miles and goes down one major street, Delmar Avenue, then turns onto DeBaliviere St where it terminates at the Missouri History Museum. It connects with Metrolink. It's on *two streets*. Are you seriously suggesting that there is not an E-W alternative to Delmar?

https://www.looptrolley.org/loop_trolley_route.html

Having lived in St Louis (years ago) and visited there for family and work many times over the years it is hard for me to imagine how anyone would stand in the way of ANY attempt at revitalization there. This trolley may not be the best idea ever, but St Louis needs all the help it can get.

rogwilco

Yes it is. I'd happily trade more trolley tracks against fewer cars.

BengeBoy 

True enough, but there are good ways and bad ways to install trolley tracks. In Seattle, the South Lake Union trolley was installed in such a way that the tracks run right down the right-hand lane of traffic. And the gap is huge, *and* the tracks curve around the streets in such a way that it's almost impossible in some places for a cyclist to cross them at 90 degrees.

So you have cyclists figuring out how to ride within the tracks, or between the tracks and the curb, and then figuring out at certain intersections whether to ride erratically in order to cross the tracks at 90 degrees, or whether to cross the gap in the tracks at an oblique angle.

As I understand it, the city has pretty much admitted they blew it on Phase 1 of the project. For Phase 2, which is being planned now, the tracks will run down the center of the street.

boneshake

Trolleys are hardly useless. They sure beat more highways and cars and car-oriented development.

MilitantPotato

There's Lindell, which traps you opposite of Forest Park parkway for sizable distances, and Waterman which traps you in a maze of cul-de-sacs. Farther north is Page, which is a pot hole filled mess and a sketchier neighborhood.

There's a couple of reasons she's wanting to fight it, she might post later to explain them.

SCROUDS

I've found an intesting site, https://www.bikeplan.com/traxq.htm They mention it being used in Tavares Fl near the end. My brother lives around that area, I'm hoping to get up there this week or this weekend and get some pics. I don't remember ever seeing pics, just reading about them. If you look on google maps, there are 3 rail/road intersections on lake dora road, including 2 rails that start merging together in a roundabout.

AndrewP

MY experience with Toronto street car tracks is that they are no problem when they run straight along the street. They are real problems when the make turns at intersections, and a re particularly bad when the intersection is on a hill - then get off and walk.

Seattle Forrest

It's a pretty bad situation on an important stretch of Westlake. I normally take 9th Ave instead, but there are some routes that make it pretty difficult to get to 9th. When I find myself on Westlake, where the tracks are, especially if I'm heading down hill ( toward Lake Union ) I take the left lane.



This is what the tracks look like:



Here's an article in the PI about the lawsuit:

https://www.seattlepi.com/transportat..._lawsuit1.html

High Roller

Thank you for starting this thread. Boise mayor Dave Bieter has become enamoured with the idea of building a trolley system in downtown Boise, and I forwarded a link to this thread to him. He appreciates the opportunity of learning what other municipalities have learned the hard way. Of course, it doesn't hurt our cause that he rides his bicycle to work every day.