stoogeswoman

Yes, that was what was really bugging me, the two women with the baby strollers just taking up almost the whole path, and the skaters weaving back and forth from lane to lane. I can understand people needing to walk on it instead of the sand, I've had to do that myself. But I know enough to stay as far to the right as possible, and get out of the way of the wheels, when necessary.

Digital_Cowboy

Again, I have to ask if it is a clearly signed bikes only path why are pedestrians allowed or tolerated on it? Is it wide enough to accommodate both bicycle and pedestrian traffic? Given that these days that "everyone and their brother" has a cell phone with them when a cyclist sees a pedestrian on a dedicated bikes only path causing problems for cyclists then the cyclists should break out cell phone and call the LEOs and report them. Also maybe it's time to encourage the communities along the path to consider building dedicated paths for pedestrians only.

Biker395 

Well, there is the sidewalk up on Vista Del Mar, and there is also a frontage road that runs most of that stretch. I dunno if that fits the legal definition of an "adjacent adequate pedestrian facility" or not.

But you're right. There are few pedestrians on that path, and I have no problems with what few there are so long as they're staying to the right and not walking 3 or 4 abreast. And most do.

I have a much bigger gripe about the ones who walk/run on the bike path in Manhattan Beach (where there most certainly IS an adequate adjacent pedestrian facility) and those that insist on running up the yellow line instead of staying to the right.

Biker395 

That photo looks like it was taken on a weekend afternoon in Venice. That part of the path, at those times, is certainly crowded, and best left to the beach cruisers.

Other sections at other times are not. From Ballona Creek to El Porto is usually wide open, and 20 MPH is not at all unreasonable or unusual. Manhattan Beach has a separate walking path that most pedestrians are wise enough to use, so that's another place where 20MPH is not unreasonable.

Kneez

Exactly. I do the same with our dog. I keep our beast very close when the situation requires it. I don't take him on MUPs a all. In fact, I rarely even walk on MUPs. I don't feel comfortable walking on the same path with cyclists. The speed differential is just too much. I do walk on the sides of the MUPs, however. In general, I just walk on sidewalks. They go more places and there are almost no cyclists. Problem solved!

Biker395 

Hermosa (which offers a MUP, not a dedicated bike path) considered that and rejected that. To their credit, they have installed some sharrows on the roads adjacent the beach to accommodate cyclists who prefer them.

And the problem with any kind of enforcement elsewhere is that it belongs to the county, and most believe that the sheriffs and lifeguards have better things to do.

SCROUDS

I think the key here is to make paths wide enough to accomodate its traffic needs. That way, everyone can use it easily. 4 people lined up side by side, pass them. I think you're better off seperating by direction then modality, and make the paths wide enough for its uses.

sudo bike

Sounds oddly familiar!

JRA

I think you're right. The one path for walking and one for biking thing rarely works very well.

JRA

Bike paths are bike paths in name only. Most are actually multi-use paths.

Mandatory pedestrian path laws are as stupid as mandatory bike path laws are for bicyclists.

Here's a thought: If pedestrians are choosing to use a bike path instead of an ajacent walking path, maybe there's something wrong with the walking path.

Bicyclists acting like jerks toward other path users doesn't surprise me. I've seen it. Get the loudest horn you can find and scare the bejesus out of those damn pedestrians. It serves them right. The nerve of them!

How is bicyclists trying to scare pedestrians off of a path any different from motorists buzzing bicyclists to scare them off the road?

Call the bike path cops on those damn pedestrian! What's next? Hall monitors? The assistant principal giving you a hard time for throwing paper airplanes out the study hall window?

Gimme a break! Mandatory walking path laws are unenforceable and legislators who pass such laws are wasting their time.

What cop wants to enforce such a law? And do cops really have nothing more important to do?


Stop the insanity! If you can't share, maybe you shouldn't go out in public.

I ride a MUP almost daily and, guess what, you have to share with other path users, some of whom don't have a clue. Tough noogies! That's life in the big city.

Grow up and stop thinking the world revolves around you.

The preceeding is a rant prompted by the realization that, when it comes to being jerks, bicyclists can be just as jerky toward pedestrians as motorists can be toward bicyclists. This thread is disturbing.

Biker395 

I'd agree with that. But properly designed, they work reasonably well. The separate paths in Manhattan Beach work well.

Or maybe the pedestrians are clueless.

The preceding is a rant prompted by the realization that, when it comes to being jerks, pedestrians can be just as jerky toward bicyclists as bicyclists can be toward motorists.

SCROUDS

As long as they don't build 6 lane mups we should be ok.

Booger1

Normal,this is the era of "ME",as in,the laws don't pertain to me....

20 MPH on a MUP/bike lane is not reasonable,those type of paths are not race tracks.20 MPH+ on Lincoln Blvd/HWY 1(pick a street) is reasonable.

Standalone 

+1.

I understand the venting, but airzounds? come on. not even legal on a bike in my state.

By the way, our local boardwalk has a divided pedestrian/bike marking. unfortunately, I see more bikes on the pedestrian side than not. I think the reason is that they put the bike lane half on the side with all the lamp posts, benches, curb cuts, flower pots, and trash receptacles. Terrible design.

zeppinger

Bikes are legally aloud on the streets. By riding the streets we are educating all road users as to what the law actually says. Pedestrians on a BIKES ONLY path are also breaking the law and should be educated. Unless you want to have out fliers or educational videos I still like the Airzound idea. All that bike users are doing is asking that other users understand their rights. Chances are, if cyclists are riding on the sidewalk, and walkers on the bike path, then there is probably nothing wrong with either of them. That might also explain the cities investment in what the OP said were large signs every 100 feet. Since most bike paths don't have this kind of signage and dont have this kind of problem I am guess thing problem is with educating the public or the public not caring. Airzound solves both those problems.

Keith99

Stop being reasonable, you will get run out of town on a rail.

Actually I agree with you. Though there are more than a few places where there is a seperate pedestrian path that is perfect... As long as the pedestrian is comming from just the right direction, otherwise they might not even be aware of the pedestrian path. And there are a few other places where pedestrian and bile paths cross at strange angles.

Most of the Beach bike path is made for cruising and looking at the pretty sights. Looking at it any differently is looking for trouble.

Biker395 

That would depend on the MUP/bike lane, and the conditions at the time, wouldn't it?

We are talking about a concrete bike path that runs through a 100-200 yard wide stretch of sandy beach. At the time I am on it, there are typically no pedestrians at all, and any that are on the path can be seen at least 1/10 mile away. I can assure you that it is completely safe to ride 20MPH on that path under those circumstances.

SCROUDS

I think the question underneath everything is: Are these bike paths and MUPs for transit or recreation? A lot of times its both, and if that's so, then they should design the infrastructure for all users. Fast bikers, cruisers, joggers, gabbing peds and stroller pushers alike.

zonatandem

Kwitcherbellyachin . . .
A bicycle is a vehicle and permitted to ride on the road.
Stay off those so-called paths which are less safe than the road.

skye

This is why "bike paths" suck.

Get on the road, ride on the road. Bike paths are for wussies and posers.

zeppinger

Are roads for recreation or transport? Of course they are for transport but sometimes you are transporting yourself to recreation. Joy riding and racing on the streets is illegal. However, so is holding up traffic when its stacked behind you.

zeppinger

I live in South Korea which has some of the highest traffic related fatalities in the industrialized world. Car driving culture here is odd to say the least. I do ride the roads when I need to get somewhere and don't sweat it too much but Seoul has one of the largest networks of dedicated bicycle paths I have ever seen and finding safe, low-speed roads off the bike path is usually pretty easy. However, I take the paths whenever possible, they are much more pleasant than fighting inept drivers.

The bike paths are two lanes and have a walking path directly next to them. I have rarely seen a walker on the bike path and usually if there is one its an elderly person who just doesn't know the rule. There are no baby strollers because most Koreans dont use them, they carry their babies on their backs or just let them walk, imagine that! I do often see runners on the bike path which makes sense, they are traveling at about the speed of a slow biker.

There are lots of slow bikers in Seoul, especially on the weekends. Not a big deal, just ring your bell and they usually keep to the right. You have got to be careful around kids of course. There are sometimes large packs of racers on group rides that use the path as well. Also not a problem. They are all very nice and usually the guy in the lead will either have a bell or a whistle to let you know you are about to get passed by a pack.

Bicycle paths can and do get used properly in other parts of the world where bicycle culture still exists and/or has been reintroduced. Cultural norms, attitudes, and awareness are what need to change.

kjmillig

Maybe I missed something but didn't the OP say there's a pedestrian path adjacent to the "bikes only" path, yet there were cyclists using it? Why don't we also address that issue. Why were those bicycle riders being so discourteous and oblivious to the peds on the ped path? Have cops out there a couple of times a week redirecting cyclists to the cycle path and peds to the ped path on the warning of receiving a citation. Educate and enforce.

Digital_Cowboy

At least they have both in tht area. I don't suppose that they've run PSA's to educate the public as to what the sharrow means?

That is of course until a cyclist "plows" into a pedestrian and then "we'll" be put into position of again having to defend why "we" were on the trail, MUP, or path in the first place. It'd be nice if cycling was a more acceptable mode of transportation here in the states.

Sadly, as most of us know until gas prices hit and stay in the double digits that isn't going to happen anytime soon.

mackerel

I know exactly which path you are referring to.
The worst section is near El Segundo, a public beach called La Playa de Gorda.
The visitors to this particular strand of beach are larger than the average beachgoer.
So large, they cannot walk in the sand for fear of falling over and getting injured.
Their feet sink so deep in the sand as to make it nearly impossible to move - and that is why they choose to walk on the path.

Other than that particular section, it’s a very nice path.