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Toronto Councillor - cycling like swimming with sharks

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Toronto Councillor - cycling like swimming with sharks

Old 08-08-10, 01:17 PM
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Toronto Councillor - cycling like swimming with sharks


Toronto Councillor's thoughts on bike lanes and cycling in Toronto.

Here's his email. Feel free to let him know if you agree.

councillor_ford@toronto.ca
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Old 08-08-10, 02:40 PM
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The ironic thing is, I do swim with sharks*... not a one has ever intentionally tried to harm me "just for the fun of it."

Sharks have a single purposeful meaning to what they do. Human motorists can be quite unpredictable.




* I do open water swims in the pacific ocean, usually about 3-4+ miles a week. I regularly see blue sharks, gray sharks, nurse sharks, horn sharks and lots of leopard sharks. Whites also exist, but I have never encountered one. (and hope I never do)

The analogy of motorists to sharks is totally false. Too bad some humans fail to realize that motorists, cyclists and pedestrians are all the same species, all with the nearly the same transportation goals.

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Old 08-08-10, 10:07 PM
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Particularly ironic given his physical shape
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Old 08-09-10, 01:53 PM
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And driving is like shooting a gun and if you hit someone it's their fault for being in the way of the bullet.
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Old 08-09-10, 02:11 PM
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Originally Posted by genec View Post
. . . motorists, cyclists and pedestrians are all the same species, all with the nearly the same transportation goals.
Well said.
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Old 08-09-10, 11:14 PM
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Originally Posted by The Human Car View Post
And driving is like shooting a gun and if you hit someone it's their fault for being in the way of the bullet.
Well said. I agree 100%
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Old 08-10-10, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Spire View Post
Particularly ironic given his physical shape
I wonder when the last time was that he did any exercise?
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Old 08-11-10, 09:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Digital_Cowboy View Post
I wonder when the last time was that he did any exercise?
When he stood up to make the speech?? LOL
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Old 08-11-10, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Tober1 View Post

Toronto Councillor's thoughts on bike lanes and cycling in Toronto.

Here's his email. Feel free to let him know if you agree.

councillor_ford@toronto.ca
For a person who probably has not been able to look down and see his shoes for at least ten years, his opinions of a healthful form of ANYTHING should be carefully considered as to their context.
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Old 08-11-10, 12:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Limey1212 View Post
When he stood up to make the speech?? LOL
Sadly that wouldn't surprise me in the least little bit.
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Old 08-11-10, 01:06 PM
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Originally Posted by The Human Car View Post
And driving is like shooting a gun and if you hit someone it's their fault for being in the way of the bullet.
Slower people are supposed to pull over or at least FRAP to make room for faster bullets so they don't have to slow down.
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Old 08-11-10, 02:02 PM
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Originally Posted by limeylew View Post
For a person who probably has not been able to look down and see his shoes for at least ten years, his opinions of a healthful form of ANYTHING should be carefully considered as to their context.
+100

How can anyone who is so grossly overweight give advice on what is and isn't healthy?
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Old 08-11-10, 08:38 PM
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As much fun as it is to make fun of this man's size, it's off the mark. His topic is bike lanes, and his arguments are about safety, not health. The fact that he is so very wrong is fuel enough with which to ridicule him.
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Old 08-12-10, 01:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Boyd Reynolds View Post
As much fun as it is to make fun of this man's size, it's off the mark. His topic is bike lanes, and his arguments are about safety, not health. The fact that he is so very wrong is fuel enough with which to ridicule him.
I would say that based on the video in the OP that there is a lot about this man that provides fuel for ridiculing him. But the combination of his weight and how wrong he is in his assertion about the "dangers" of cycling combines to make a very (no pun intended) big target. And as we all know it isn't cycling that is dangerous, rather it's the distracted, drunk, sleepy, inattentive and speeding drivers that makes the road(s) dangerous.

Motorists need to learn that they are NOT the only ones on the road, and that cyclists, pedestrians, etc. all have a legal right to be on the road.
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Old 08-12-10, 06:33 AM
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He doesn't bike that's why or maybe he doesn't know how to bike...
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Old 08-12-10, 07:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Digital_Cowboy View Post
I would say that based on the video in the OP that there is a lot about this man that provides fuel for ridiculing him. But the combination of his weight and how wrong he is in his assertion about the "dangers" of cycling combines to make a very (no pun intended) big target. And as we all know it isn't cycling that is dangerous, rather it's the distracted, drunk, sleepy, inattentive and speeding drivers that makes the road(s) dangerous.

Motorists need to learn that they are NOT the only ones on the road, and that cyclists, pedestrians, etc. all have a legal right to be on the road.



Until we start seeing giant billboards and other public messages that announce that cyclists and peds, etc have rights to the road, I am afraid the driving public will continue with their attitude that they OWN the roads, as that driving public both believes that they have paid for it, and it was designed for cars.

This Toronto Councillor is merely displaying the attitude that most motorists have and will continue to believe.
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Old 08-12-10, 07:56 AM
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Originally Posted by genec View Post
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Until we start seeing giant billboards and other public messages that announce that cyclists and peds, etc have rights to the road, I am afraid the driving public will continue with their attitude that they OWN the roads, as that driving public both believes that they have paid for it, and it was designed for cars.

This Toronto Councillor is merely displaying the attitude that most motorists have and will continue to believe.
The driving public DO PAY (gas tax, licensing fees, and other user fees) for the roads and the roads are built for MOTORISTS. Roads are incredibly expensive infrastructure to build and maintain and the only reason they exist is to serve as an economic circulatory system. They are built to move goods, services, and workers and in anything other than a Utopian fantasy that means motor vehicles. The remainder of the costs are born by the taxpayers who receive the benefit for their funding even if they never own a car or use public transport--everything they purchase gets there by using the roads. As a cyclist, who may own a car you may pay all of the above fees, BUT you pay them not to be able to ride your bike (or even your car) on the roads, but to have an economy that can allow you to purchase groceries from the store down the block or have a means to get to/from a place of employment.

Courts and politicians have deemed that cyclists have a right to use the roads, but that doesn't mean that the roads are safe for them or that they CAN be designed to be safe for them. Nor does it mean that the already insufficient funding for road construction and maintainance should be spent to cater to the whims of a very small percentage of the users.

Cyclists can behave and function like a motor vehicles (not that they always do) on roads posted for up to about 35mph (depending on rider), but beyond that there is a marked increase in risk to the cyclist because of the inability to proceed with the flow of traffic. Bike lanes do not solve the problem due to the inevitable interaction at intersections. And spending already insufficient funds on infrastructure that only serves (and poorly at that) a very small percentage of the public is a poor use of those funds.

I am all for adding MUP and bike lanes (on slower speed facilities) and believe that cyclists should be licensed and taxed to pay for the infrastructure needed to support them. Given the relatively small number of cyclists, when compared to motorists, the relative costs per cyclist could easily exceed $1000 per cyclist per year...
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Old 08-12-10, 09:17 AM
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don't be ridiculous, there's no way that car taxes alone can pay for the roads
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Old 08-12-10, 09:41 AM
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Originally Posted by lechatmort View Post
don't be ridiculous, there's no way that car taxes alone can pay for the roads
I didn't say that vehicle taxes alone paid for the roads, but they do represent a significant portion of the funding for roads in the US. And vehicle taxes/user fees cover a wide number of fees; licensing, registration, gas taxes, tolls, ...

I work as a transportation planner, I know what I'm talking about (at least in the US). The bottom line is that cyclists in the US pay little to nothing for the infrastructure they use. Its not ridiculous, its a simple fact.
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Old 08-12-10, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by myrridin View Post
Given the relatively small number of cyclists, when compared to motorists, the relative costs per cyclist could easily exceed $1000 per cyclist per year...
You had a point toward the beginning of your message, in that roads are the circulatory system of our modern economy ( which is why many cities refer to some of their roads as "arterial" ), and that some of the cost is borne by people who benefit from this even without owning or driving a car, eg by being able to buy groceries that weren't grown locally. On the other hand, the quote above is a bit of a stretch.

Given how little damage cyclists do to the road and bridge infrastructure, compared to, say, big rig trucks, $1,000+ per cyclist per year is more than a little a bit dubious, if it means anything in terms of actual cost to the public.
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Old 08-12-10, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by myrridin View Post
I am all for adding MUP and bike lanes (on slower speed facilities) and believe that cyclists should be licensed and taxed to pay for the infrastructure needed to support them.
If in your world I did not pay the 'cycling tax' I wouldn't be allowed to use bike lanes or MUPs when cycling? Sign me up!

Of course those who should pay for the MUPs and bike lanes are those who benefit the most from them. This would be the motorists who want the cyclists out of the way.

Anyway, there is so much wrong in your ideas, but it has been rehashed here so many times before.
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Old 08-12-10, 10:46 AM
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what a ****tard.

"It's dere own fault at de enduh the dey"

Right.
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Old 08-12-10, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
You had a point toward the beginning of your message, in that roads are the circulatory system of our modern economy ( which is why many cities refer to some of their roads as "arterial" ), and that some of the cost is borne by people who benefit from this even without owning or driving a car, eg by being able to buy groceries that weren't grown locally. On the other hand, the quote above is a bit of a stretch.

Given how little damage cyclists do to the road and bridge infrastructure, compared to, say, big rig trucks, $1,000+ per cyclist per year is more than a little a bit dubious, if it means anything in terms of actual cost to the public.
Are you aware how much it costs to pave and maintain bike lanes, MUP? Further, to make such things safe, they need to be physically separate from the vehicle infrastructure which adds to the cost tremendously (bridges, tunnels and/or separate right of way). A $1000 per cyclist per year is frankly a very low estimate of the actual cost such infrastructure would entail. Further, since the "customer base" is so much smaller there is much less justification for spending limited public tax funds on infrastructure that would serve a very small percentage of the population. The issue isn't damage to the roads, but the need for a separate infrastructure which costs money. The high unit cost is also a function of the limited user base. The sheer fact of the matter is that Americans like to "spread out" and short of some fascist imposition of behavior modification that doesn't seem likely to change.

Our current infrastructure is deteriorating. In most places in the US there is less money available that needed to actually maintain the infrastructure we have available. Do a Google search on substandard bridges sometime if you want a scare. What is worse is the money available for infrastructure is further diminished by the need to spend some of it on adding new capacity. And adding new capacity is essential to maintaining a healthy economy.

Also, the source of the groceries doesn't matter. Unless your buying your food from the farm/ranch where it was grown then it is getting transported via the roads...
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Old 08-12-10, 10:52 AM
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We should also start taxing people who walk! Sir, do you have you walking papers?
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Old 08-12-10, 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by noisebeam View Post
If in your world I did not pay the 'cycling tax' I wouldn't be allowed to use bike lanes or MUPs when cycling? Sign me up!

Of course those who should pay for the MUPs and bike lanes are those who benefit the most from them. This would be the motorists who want the cyclists out of the way.

Anyway, there is so much wrong in your ideas, but it has been rehashed here so many times before.
An argument with as much coherence as the ad hominums directed against the politician in the original post...

Please explain just how cyclists pay for the infrastructure they use? The short answer is they don't. Then again never mind.
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