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cycletrack/buffered lane bicycling facilities report from Portland State U.

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cycletrack/buffered lane bicycling facilities report from Portland State U.

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Old 03-03-11, 01:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Bekologist
"the four types of cyclist" in portland are not represented by you and your derision for innovative road treatments new to portland, ubiquitous in the true cycling capitals of the world.

Randya's constituency represented below:

that Portlandia clip is just plain stupid, shame on you
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Old 03-03-11, 01:28 PM
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oh, everyone has been getting a kick out of it from the League of American Bicyclist blog on down, trust me it's entertaining and HILARIOUS.

don't deny it, that's bike comedy at its best.
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Old 03-03-11, 01:29 PM
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whatever

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Old 03-03-11, 01:30 PM
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Originally Posted by menemia
....no measurable change in the number of people cycling
???

Originally Posted by harvard study
Observation of the video counts found that the counts increased 77% on SW Stark and 271% on SW Oak.
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Old 03-03-11, 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Bekologist
???
The cycle track portion of the study apparently did not find an increase in numbers, though they attempt to explain it away. That is really just an admission that the study's methodology for estimating numbers of cyclists is very limited and uncontrolled, and not really reliable.
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Old 03-03-11, 01:55 PM
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A well integrated network of paths, bike boulevards and bike lanes that offered a comfortable place to bike would encourage even the weekend rider to extend their range further and further and discover commuting. But as long as we have this LANCE image... cycling in America will remain a fringe activity.
Cycling will remain a fringe activity until Americans loose their desire to own one single family home with a yard for years which will be necessarily far from jobs for many workers and away from mass transit since the resulting population density doesn't support it.

The average American worker commutes 16 miles each way to their job which is 12,100 kilometers a year assuming the 10 holidays and three weeks of vacation which are typical for many professions.

In 2006 the average Dutchman rode just 902 kilometers.

To get a lot of people commuting by bike you'd need to move them closer to work by putting them in high-density areas so there'd be a lot of jobs near a lot of potential employees, or by getting rid of real-estate transaction costs so they can move from one suburb to another when they change jobs (this would also require significant changes to the education system so there wouldn't be good and bad schools)

Allowing children to bike to school might help too.

Last edited by Drew Eckhardt; 03-03-11 at 01:59 PM.
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Old 03-03-11, 01:58 PM
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Originally Posted by bad statistic posted by Bek
Observation of the video counts found that the counts increased 77% on SW Stark and 271% on SW Oak.
That's just laughable, both of those streets were low-speed, low-traffic streets that were perfectly safe for cyclists before the buffered bike lanes were installed, and those buffered bike lanes are empty 95% of the time.
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Old 03-03-11, 02:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Drew Eckhardt
Cycling will remain a fringe activity until Americans loose their desire to own one single family home with a yard for years which will be necessarily far from jobs for many workers and away from mass transit since the resulting population density doesn't support it.

The average American worker commutes 16 miles each way to their job which is 12,100 kilometers a year assuming the 10 holidays and three weeks of vacation which are typical for many professions.

In 2006 the average Dutchman rode just 902 kilometers.

To get a lot of people commuting by bike you'd need to move them closer to work by putting them in high-density areas so there'd be a lot of jobs near a lot of potential employees, or by getting rid of real-estate transaction costs so they can move from one suburb to another when they change jobs (this would also require significant changes to the education system so there wouldn't be good and bad schools)

Allowing children to bike to school might help too.
You say this like these are bad things... Changing zoning laws to allow light industry/offices to be located in residential areas would help, also mixing in light retail wouldn't hurt. Isolation by suburb is one of those things that promotes auto-centric designs.
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Old 03-03-11, 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Drew Eckhardt
Cycling will remain a fringe activity until Americans loose their desire to own one single family home with a yard for years which will be necessarily far from jobs for many workers and away from mass transit since the resulting population density doesn't support it.

The average American worker commutes 16 miles each way to their job which is 12,100 kilometers a year assuming the 10 holidays and three weeks of vacation which are typical for many professions.

In 2006 the average Dutchman rode just 902 kilometers.

To get a lot of people commuting by bike you'd need to move them closer to work by putting them in high-density areas so there'd be a lot of jobs near a lot of potential employees, or by getting rid of real-estate transaction costs so they can move from one suburb to another when they change jobs (this would also require significant changes to the education system so there wouldn't be good and bad schools)

Allowing children to bike to school might help too.
Commuting isn't all of people's driving, and I don't believe that long commutes alone can explain the degree to which the U.S. is a car-centric society. Even a huge portion of people's SHORT trips are made by car in the U.S. Going to the grocery 1 mile away by bike is not a prohibitive distance, but a huge portion of the time Americans choose to drive it. It seems that once there is "buy in" to the car-centric lifestyle, Americans choose to use their cars for ALL trips, not just trips that are infeasible to make by bike for most people. I believe we can change that without totally reorganizing settlement patterns, and land use reorganization will inevitably follow.
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Old 03-03-11, 03:22 PM
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Originally Posted by mnemia
Commuting isn't all of people's driving, and I don't believe that long commutes alone can explain the degree to which the U.S. is a car-centric society. Even a huge portion of people's SHORT trips are made by car in the U.S. Going to the grocery 1 mile away by bike is not a prohibitive distance, but a huge portion of the time Americans choose to drive it. It seems that once there is "buy in" to the car-centric lifestyle, Americans choose to use their cars for ALL trips, not just trips that are infeasible to make by bike for most people. I believe we can change that without totally reorganizing settlement patterns, and land use reorganization will inevitably follow.
Two reasons for the "easy buy in."

1) Everything looks like a road built for a car... no matter where you go in America, the car use is encouraged to get you there... from drive thru restaurants to movies to funeral homes to huge parking lots everywhere... not to mention "Free Parking." Cars are welcome everywhere. Heck the biggest room in many homes is... wait for it... The Garage... (where worship starts daily.)

2) Once the "investment" is made for the huge thing on wheels... well it only takes a bit of gas to keep it going... and what the heck, it is sooooo easy to use... just mash that right foot down a bit... never mind that your heart never goes above a dead slow murmur (although the rush of adrenaline in a near collision is enough to trigger the flight or fight response... while not actually doing so keeps your arteries filled with loads of hormones...)

When everything looks like a nail... well, a hammer is the first thing that comes to mind.
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Old 03-03-11, 03:51 PM
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This is my all time favorite Bike Forum thread in five years of mostly lurking. Thanks Mnemia and Genec for transcending the rhetorical games that are so prevalent on this topic.
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Old 03-03-11, 04:11 PM
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Originally Posted by genec
Two reasons for the "easy buy in."

1) Everything looks like a road built for a car... no matter where you go in America, the car use is encouraged to get you there... from drive thru restaurants to movies to funeral homes to huge parking lots everywhere... not to mention "Free Parking." Cars are welcome everywhere. Heck the biggest room in many homes is... wait for it... The Garage... (where worship starts daily.)
Well, that's exactly right, and it's the kind of thing that is dependent on government policy in a whole bunch of direct and indirect ways. Somehow, we've got to get government to stop seeing non-motorized transportation (including walking) as an afterthought at most. One way I think we could do that is by asking for inexpensive changes that would be beneficial, as opposed to just expensive infrastructure. Bike advocacy needs to be creative and also figure out a message to sell itself.

2) Once the "investment" is made for the huge thing on wheels... well it only takes a bit of gas to keep it going... and what the heck, it is sooooo easy to use... just mash that right foot down a bit... never mind that your heart never goes above a dead slow murmur (although the rush of adrenaline in a near collision is enough to trigger the flight or fight response... while not actually doing so keeps your arteries filled with loads of hormones...)

When everything looks like a nail... well, a hammer is the first thing that comes to mind.
Here the issue, I think, is that so much of the cost of operating a motor vehicle is a sunk or fixed cost (without even getting into all the societal costs associated with driving that the government decides to "invest" in for us whether we like it or not). You've already paid for insurance, the car, and new tires for it, so your only immediate marginal cost of driving more miles is fuel (there are many indirect marginal costs, of course). So the cost of fuel is the only direct and immediate feedback signal people are getting about how much they are spending on driving. That's why it is one of the few things that can have a strong influence on people's driving behavior, despite the fact that it's actually probably a minority of the total cost for most people. It's pain that is continually inflicted on people whenever they fill up, so they think about it a lot.

So one way we could get people to drive less would simply be to increase the marginal costs, or maybe to shift more of the fixed costs over into a continually paid, marginal cost category. Ways to do this might include a higher gas tax, pay-as-you-drive insurance priced per mile, shifting car property and license taxes to a pay-as-you-drive model, expanding use of toll roads, charging more for parking everywhere, etc. The problem is that for it to be effective, it would have to inflict continuous pain on people so that they would change their behavior. And if it does that, it would be unpopular, because people will always sacrifice the long term for the short term. So probably the only way this will happen is if outside forces (like the oil market) cause these costs to go up in spite of government policy.
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Old 03-03-11, 06:44 PM
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mnemia, I think you have it right.

Another way to look at it is from not just cost based, but from a convenience based view. In addition to economic drivers, People will drive less when it is more convenient to ride a bike than drive. What drives this? Parking is a big factor, if parking is limited for cars a bike is more attractive, but there also has to be a place to park the bike. Limited access to say a downtown area to cars would decrease convenience of driving. these are all governmental solutions.

In the current economic/political climate anything that costs a lot of money or implies "more government" or taxes is not going to fly.....at least for a few years when I expect a little return to center.

So I agree that it will be outside factors on gas prices that in the near term will drive riding beyond todays current core.
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Old 03-03-11, 07:29 PM
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Originally Posted by squirtdad
mnemia, I think you have it right.

Another way to look at it is from not just cost based, but from a convenience based view. In addition to economic drivers, People will drive less when it is more convenient to ride a bike than drive. What drives this? Parking is a big factor, if parking is limited for cars a bike is more attractive, but there also has to be a place to park the bike. Limited access to say a downtown area to cars would decrease convenience of driving. these are all governmental solutions.

In the current economic/political climate anything that costs a lot of money or implies "more government" or taxes is not going to fly.....at least for a few years when I expect a little return to center.

So I agree that it will be outside factors on gas prices that in the near term will drive riding beyond todays current core.
It may take more than a shift in gas prices to change the transportation habits of Americans... one possible all encompassing paradigm shift could come as a result of both a change in fuel and more advanced automobiles...

As gas becomes more and more expensive in the decades to come, and as the possibility of self drive cars become more and more evident, we may over time see a shift from individually owned vehicles to robotic cars. The robotic car will come when called like a taxi and could be used as needed for basic commuting, errands and shopping... but rather than own such a car, it is more likely that such vehicles will be leased on an as needed basis (why own maintain and store if you don't need to). One may merely buy a lease card and "charge it up" when when it is empty much like some folks use pre-paid cell phones.

This whole concept is known as a whistlecar and has been explored on the net in various forums and blogs.

The result of this sort of situation is that the cost of the use of the car is not up front, but is incurred per trip... thus encouraging users to supplement their whistlecar lease with alternative transportation means such as public transit, or walking or cycling.

And of course if we had nothing but robotic self drive cars on the roads rather than ego fueled motorists, we may find that vehicular cycling works very well when every motored road user is a law abiding robot.

Just a thought.

Here's another thought... Just came to me... of a rather dystopian future:

Due to lack of oil, and future gas wars, and America slipping behind China and perhaps even other nations as a world power, the economy fully crashes... the doom and gloom piles on, and ultimately people end up living in old rusted hulks that used to be SUVs and other large typically American vehicles... No one but the super rich can afford to own and actually drive a car... and even then such driving is only done in isolated areas, lest the masses riot and overcome these wealthy few. The masses depend on trains (armored no doubt) to ship goods, but local transport is done by bicycle, the only means still available.

Apologies to Spike Bike. https://linux.stevens-tech.edu/kmh/spike.bike.all.txt

Last edited by genec; 03-03-11 at 08:05 PM.
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Old 03-03-11, 07:48 PM
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do you guys mean something like the action plan enacted in New York City, PLANYC2030



transportation initiatives PLANYC2030


changes to streetscapes to include buffered class II bikelanes, parking protected cycletracks or slightly more elaborate road designs that benefit cycling can be enacted quickly and cheaply.

Cost Benefit analysis is part of the metric for including bicycle facilities in future transportation projects receiving federal funds; the onus is to provide them unless the costs exceed a significant portion of the budget; i think it approaches 8 percent of the total costs of the project?

the costs of even significant levels of infrastructure can usually be implemented in a major road retrofit or implementation without coming close to approaching this budget cutoff.

Originally Posted by Bike initiatives from PLANYC2030
We will pursue strategies to encourage the growth of cycling across the city
Cycling also offers an environmentally-friendly and space-efficient way to travel around the city. Other cities have embraced cycling as emission-free, low-cost travel mode that promotes a healthy lifestyle-and one that New Yorkers are increasingly embracing. Cycling in the city is estimated to have increased 75% from 2000 to 2006. But there is still plenty of room to grow; less than 1% of New Yorkers commute to work by bicycle. (See case study: Cycling Emerges Around U.S.)

We will complete the city's 1,800-mile bike master plan
In order to reduce traffic and reach our clean air and greenhouse gas reduction goals, New Yorkers should be given the option of reaching their jobs and major city destinations through cycling. That is why we will dramatically accelerate the implementation of the City's 1,800-mile bike lane master plan, to ensure that the entire system is in place before 2030. (See chart above: Bike Lane Construction)

The plan includes 504 miles of separated bike paths (Class 1 facilities) and 1,296 miles of striped bicycle lanes or markings reminding drivers and cyclists to share the road (Class 2 and 3). To date, only 420 miles have been constructed.

We will complete Phase 1 of the plan in 2009, which will add 200 lane miles in targeted areas across the city-with the first 40 finished by June 2007.

We will prioritize areas with high demand, building connections between existing portions of the network, and strengthening access to parks through special bike paths known as greenways. These greenways not only offer their own recreational benefits such as biking, skating, and walking throughout our city's park system; they can also open up new areas of parkland.

Phase 2 and beyond will complete the remaining bike lanes, resulting in 1,800 total lane miles of bicycle facilities in New York City.

We will facilitate cycling
In addition to implementing the master plan, we must provide support for city cyclists and encourage New Yorkers to explore this form of transportation. That means improving public education on the benefits of cycling and on safety issues, increasing necessary bicycling infrastructure such as bike racks and lockers, and improving observation of traffic and bicycling laws.

Cyclists often point out that their main concern is having safe places to store their bikes. To solve this problem, the City's Department of Transportation (DOT) will continue the CITYRACKS program by installing 1,200 additional on-street bicycle racks throughout the City by 2009, and commit to that level of installation until every neighborhood has adequate bike parking. We will also pursue legislation to require that large commercial buildings make provision for bicycle storage either on site or reasonably nearby.
New York City is enacting a plan to place 500 miles of Class I separated bikeway and more miles of buffered class II bikelanes like those studied in Portland.

Last edited by Bekologist; 03-03-11 at 08:03 PM.
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Old 03-03-11, 08:00 PM
  #41  
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someone better check the programming, I think it's stuck on 'repeat'
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Old 03-04-11, 10:42 AM
  #42  
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somethings wrong with promoting positive tools and cities that plan for bicycling there?

biking too popular for you, not elite enough anymore, Randya?

the pundits were talking about comprehensive transportation planning, and i brought in PLANYC2030 as an example of a progressive transportation action plan that also includes buffered bikelanes and cycletracks, the same type of facilities studied and found to be positively received there in Portland.

Last edited by Bekologist; 03-04-11 at 12:04 PM.
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