Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Advocacy & Safety
Reload this Page >

Bike lanes, bike paths, or streets?

Advocacy & Safety Cyclists should expect and demand safe accommodation on every public road, just as do all other users. Discuss your bicycle advocacy and safety concerns here.

Bike lanes, bike paths, or streets?

Old 04-18-11, 09:37 PM
  #26  
invisiblehand
Part-time epistemologist
 
invisiblehand's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 5,867

Bikes: Jamis Nova, Bike Friday NWT, STRIDA, Austro Daimler Vent Noir, Haluzak Horizon, Salsa La Raza, Hollands Tourer, Bike Friday tikit

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 120 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by bluefoxicy View Post
The research is out there.
Originally Posted by mikeybikes View Post
Where?
Good question.
__________________
A narrative on bicycle driving.
invisiblehand is offline  
Old 04-18-11, 09:44 PM
  #27  
Bekologist
totally louche
 
Bekologist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: A land that time forgot
Posts: 18,025

Bikes: the ever shifting stable loaded with comfortable road bikes and city and winter bikes

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
here's the classic, Mortiz, 1997

cyclists safer on streets with bike facilities than without.

Moritz 1997 TRB

if anyone wants more grist, here's a fairly exhaustive omnibus to date.....the impact of bicycling infrastructure on cycling crashes: a compilation of the literature 2010 Journal of Environmental Health

Last edited by Bekologist; 04-18-11 at 09:48 PM.
Bekologist is offline  
Old 04-19-11, 01:41 AM
  #28  
contango 
2 Fat 2 Furious
 
contango's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: England
Posts: 3,996

Bikes: 2009 Specialized Rockhopper Comp Disc, 2009 Specialized Tricross Sport RIP

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by bluefoxicy View Post
There's a few of these around here:



I like this. Especially notice the smooth, well-maintained road.

Smooth and well maintained is good. I must admit looking at the picture it's far from clear to me just how much of the road is allocated to bikes, if indeed any at all.

With a green stripe along the roadside at least you know that part of the road is designated for cyclists and the rest of the road is wide enough for cars to pass safely. Although it is irritating when bike lanes are shared with buses (or, more accurately, bikes use the bus lane) and have to keep going around a bus that stops at a bus stop and then wants to get around the bike again.
contango is offline  
Old 04-19-11, 07:28 AM
  #29  
Bekologist
totally louche
 
Bekologist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: A land that time forgot
Posts: 18,025

Bikes: the ever shifting stable loaded with comfortable road bikes and city and winter bikes

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
a sharrow, unlike a bikelane stripe, does not 'allocate' road space to bicyclists, they are placed along shared lane roadways that most states would, generally, allow full lane use by the bicyclist wherever sharrows are placed.
Bekologist is offline  
Old 04-19-11, 08:12 AM
  #30  
invisiblehand
Part-time epistemologist
 
invisiblehand's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 5,867

Bikes: Jamis Nova, Bike Friday NWT, STRIDA, Austro Daimler Vent Noir, Haluzak Horizon, Salsa La Raza, Hollands Tourer, Bike Friday tikit

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 120 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Bekologist View Post
here's the classic, Mortiz, 1997

cyclists safer on streets with bike facilities than without.

Moritz 1997 TRB

if anyone wants more grist, here's a fairly exhaustive omnibus to date.....the impact of bicycling infrastructure on cycling crashes: a compilation of the literature 2010 Journal of Environmental Health
Thanks, but I think that most of us are familiar with the standard sources of glip glop.

http://www.bikexprt.com/research/index.htm
http://www.industrializedcyclist.com/lies.html

Instead, the OP provides figures without cites which makes most of the discussion meaningless.
__________________
A narrative on bicycle driving.
invisiblehand is offline  
Old 04-19-11, 08:24 AM
  #31  
bluefoxicy
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Baltimore, MD
Posts: 1,212

Bikes: 2010 GT Tachyon 3.0

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 43 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by contango View Post
looking at the picture it's far from clear to me just how much of the road is allocated to bikes, if indeed any at all.
That's the point
bluefoxicy is offline  
Old 04-19-11, 08:45 AM
  #32  
Bekologist
totally louche
 
Bekologist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: A land that time forgot
Posts: 18,025

Bikes: the ever shifting stable loaded with comfortable road bikes and city and winter bikes

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by invisiblehand View Post
Thanks, but I think that most of us are familiar with the standard sources of glip glop. ......

Instead, the OP provides figures without cites which makes most of the discussion meaningless.
oh, i understand the OP has not cited a study. i think they are referring to the danish one that muddled moped operators into the collision statistics.

Despite this, thanks for the laugh - it's humorous to see a part time epistemologist characterizing individual or compiled global research on bicycling safety as 'glip glop.' I can see why its a part time pursuit.
Bekologist is offline  
Old 04-19-11, 09:19 AM
  #33  
bluefoxicy
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Baltimore, MD
Posts: 1,212

Bikes: 2010 GT Tachyon 3.0

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 43 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Bekologist View Post
oh, i understand the OP has not cited a study. i think they are referring to the danish one that muddled moped operators into the collision statistics.
I didn't cite a study because I've looked at a bunch of glip glop from all over the place and haven't taken an exact position; I think all extreme positions are wrong, though (i.e. only bike lanes, only segregated paths, only VC... if you have a unidimensional strategy, you're doing it wrong).

I don't rightly remember what my original point was.
bluefoxicy is offline  
Old 04-19-11, 09:26 AM
  #34  
mikeybikes
Senior Member
 
mikeybikes's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Edgewater, CO
Posts: 3,214

Bikes: Tons

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by bluefoxicy View Post


I like this. Especially notice the smooth, well-maintained road.
I'd kill for that smooth of pavement.
mikeybikes is offline  
Old 04-19-11, 11:32 AM
  #35  
Speedwagon98
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 206

Bikes: 2009 Specialized Sirrus

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Doohickie View Post
My favorite mode of bike travel is off-road trails where they exist (around here, they follow the river and the street bridges over the river also go over the MUP, so there are very few crossings of busy streets), and cutting through residential neighborhoods. The way a city is designed will dictate whether the latter is possible; if developments tend to have limited access (in the extreme, gated communities), they can't be used for bike traffic. If they can be ridden through from one end to the other with outlets at each end, they make ideal cycling routes. As for the MUP, like I said, they follow the river. The basic infrastructure was set up by the Army Corps of Engineers when the river was rechanneled for flood control. At the tops of the levees, and sometimes at the bases, a stone road bed was installed to allow access by work crews. Once work was complete, the access roads were covered with fine hard-packed gravel, then paved with blacktop in some areas, and now the most used portions are being paved with concrete. A nice added feature is that along several sections there are two separate paths, one generally used by wheeled traffic (the paved sections) and one by foot traffic (the packed gravel).

The city is also adding on-street bike lanes. The most successful has helped create an urban village in a historical neighborhood that is revitalizing and gentrifying. This year the city is adding additional bike lanes in that area, and recently put in lanes along a thoroughfare that has quite a bit of new urban development in an old industrial district.

In some areas, an integral part of the bike infrastructure is provision for bike parking. In the past year, lots of bike racks have been installed in the near southside (the urban village I mentioned earlier) and the program is being expanded into downtown.

The point is... the city is assessing what the best method is to accommodate and encourage bicycle traffic. They revisit changes to determine what works and what doesn't in specific locations. The bike lanes along Magnolia Avenue started out as sharrows, but they removed a motor traffic lane and put in bike lanes instead. While one may argue about the safety and efficiency of bike lanes, in the areas where they have been recently introduced they have helped give bicycle traffic a visible presence, even when there are no bikes around.
For the most part, you just described Denver as well.
Speedwagon98 is offline  
Old 04-19-11, 11:47 AM
  #36  
chipcom 
Infamous Member
 
chipcom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 24,365

Bikes: Surly Big Dummy, Fuji World, 80ish Bianchi

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Bike lanes, bike paths, or streets?
It's not an either-or proposition. Whatever is the safest, most efficient and most fun given the circumstances of the moment are fine with me. I also like tail winds, smooth pavement, slight downhills, pie...and world peace.
__________________
"Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey
chipcom is offline  
Old 04-19-11, 11:53 AM
  #37  
bluefoxicy
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Baltimore, MD
Posts: 1,212

Bikes: 2010 GT Tachyon 3.0

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 43 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by mikeybikes View Post
I'd kill for that smooth of pavement.
And now I know why I got a "yes, and?" when I posted about my crazy unmaintained streets (at several spots you can see bricks. Bricks are what was on the road when we had horse and buggy, and they simply paved over it. That means the road has worn completely through).


The best part is the street might look messed in the picture, but there are a whole lot of road features that just don't show up in camera. Little dips and curves and stuff in the surface where it looks smooth. Though, that road there looks pretty warped.
bluefoxicy is offline  
Old 04-19-11, 12:58 PM
  #38  
jamesdenver
jim anchower
 
jamesdenver's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 1,118
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
The problem with designated bike paths is that they're usually MUPs, which end up being populated by walkers, dogs, kids and rollerbladers. Again that's a problem for cyclists - When I walk I'm happy to share the space and try to keep right, but on busy days it just doesn't work.

With the exception of the random jogger who prefers asphalt the streets are void of all of these potential accidents. And to me the short list of predictable of car accidents (right hooks, left turns and getting doored) is much more predictably than the above.
jamesdenver is offline  
Old 04-19-11, 01:20 PM
  #39  
Pedaleur
Je pose, donc je suis.
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Back. Here.
Posts: 2,898
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by chipcom View Post
It's not an either-or proposition. Whatever is the safest, most efficient and most fun given the circumstances of the moment are fine with me. I also like tail winds, smooth pavement, slight downhills, pie...and world peace.
You mean I don't have to choose between VC and incompetence? There's a middle ground?

Why do you hate America so much?
Pedaleur is offline  
Old 04-19-11, 01:37 PM
  #40  
chipcom 
Infamous Member
 
chipcom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 24,365

Bikes: Surly Big Dummy, Fuji World, 80ish Bianchi

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Pedaleur View Post
You mean I don't have to choose between VC and incompetence? There's a middle ground?

Why do you hate America so much?
I dunno, must have been a frenchman in the woodpile.
__________________
"Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey
chipcom is offline  
Old 04-19-11, 04:21 PM
  #41  
green427
Senior Member
 
green427's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Dela-where?
Posts: 226

Bikes: GT Fitness series, IBEX Vantage 5500, Raleigh M-80

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I lived in several states, and so far Delaware seems to have the most dedicated bike lanes. Every new paving job, every new road gets a dedicated bike lane. I am surprised that more people are not riding. Maryland, especially the suburban areas, has the worst I've seen. No shoulders, and bicyclists are stuck riding in the lanes with furious cagers behind them. I even had a bus mirror narrowly miss my head.

DE's bike lanes are not always user-friendly. Take a look at the bike lane in this picture going from right to left in the left lane. Notice the narrow lane between the two big right turn lanes? It is a nerve-wracking experience to ride on that when people are coming & going to Royal Farms while everyone else wants to get in the right lane.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&sour...01321&t=h&z=20
green427 is offline  
Old 04-20-11, 05:44 PM
  #42  
buzzman
----
 
buzzman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Newton, MA
Posts: 4,574
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by chipcom View Post
It's not an either-or proposition. Whatever is the safest, most efficient and most fun given the circumstances of the moment are fine with me. I also like tail winds, smooth pavement, slight downhills, pie...and world peace.
How refreshingly accurate, succinct and true.
buzzman is offline  
Old 04-21-11, 12:58 AM
  #43  
contango 
2 Fat 2 Furious
 
contango's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: England
Posts: 3,996

Bikes: 2009 Specialized Rockhopper Comp Disc, 2009 Specialized Tricross Sport RIP

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by bluefoxicy View Post
That's the point
OK, makes sense. I'm so used to cyclists having a designated strip at the roadside or being expected to fit in with regular traffic.
contango is offline  
Old 04-26-11, 05:20 PM
  #44  
trevayne
Banned.
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: phillppines
Posts: 61

Bikes: mountain bike

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
newbie here hi.i hate this city here in makati phillippines.their's no bike lanes.and different city's have. but are not maintained.
trevayne is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
johnny99
Recall Announcements
0
08-31-12 10:36 PM
labikeguy
Southern California
0
01-30-11 01:40 PM
ahson
Hybrid Bicycles
5
09-22-10 06:24 PM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.