slowandsteady

I have done a number of rides with the bicycle club of philadelphia. They are always looking for leaders of ride. Why don't I do it? I am tired of being a leader all the time. Sometimes it would be nice to just follow along and not have to have the responsibility.

I am responsible for three children and a job with tremendous stress and complexity impacting hundred of millions of dollars including my responsibility of my direct reports' career development. I am also responsible for my grandmother's health and welfare 7 days a week(she lives with me).

Maybe, just maybe, I would like to have zero responsibility for others for like 2 hours a week and just show up at a ride for myself and no one else.

chipcom 

Amen!

I-Like-To-Bike

Why forget about "showing up at a ride" organized by others, and just get on your bike and ride wherever/whenever you feel like it?

chipcom 

perhaps that is one of the differences between her (women) and us (men) that is relevant to the OP - we (men) can go out on a ride by ourselves in relative peace, women, sadly, not so much (generally speaking).

slowandsteady

I do that more than 100 miles a week(5-6 days) every single week, nearly every week of the year. But sometimes I like to ride in another area with other human beings that can ride the speed and distances I do. My friends can't, so the only option to not ride alone(unless I feel like riding at a 9mph average) is to join a group ride. Also, group rides often push me more since I am forced to keep up with people who may be faster. I had done the Sunday breakfast ride(30 miles) a few years ago and it was really nice. BUT it also involved a journey through Camden NJ(most dangerous city in America). No freakin way I would ride there by myself.

It is just a nice change of pace to riding by myself or riding with family/friends at an excruciatingly slow pace. And guess what, I am the leader for my family rides. If the chain falls off of someone's bike, it is my job to fix it. I lube and maintenance all the bikes. I pull the trailer with my twins in it, not the others. I plan the routes since I know every single road in this area from 4 mile loops to 50+ mile loops including elevation changes.

slowandsteady

Now, I tend to be a loner anyway, so I enjoy my quiet time along on the bike. And I have no qualms about beating someone with my u-lock if necessary. So fear isn't a factor for me per se.

But aside from the fear factor, many women are quite social. If their friends don't bike, they may not be inclined to bike alone solely because they would prefer company. I often see many women walking for fitness in groups, more so than alone. Maybe that is why the female group rides have tons of women?

chipcom 

Good point on the social aspect...which is why Cheri likes to do group rides more than I do. Having a wife that rides is a double-edged sword...it makes it even harder for me to get my alone-time rides in. Sometimes she just doesn't get that her being along just gives me someone else to watch over...which is exactly what I want to get away from.

njkayaker

Your reply to my comment isn't really related to anything I said!

I haven't said that people should be leaders. They just should not be overly picky about the leaders they do get.

I'm really talking about people who want leaders "complaining" that the leaders they do get happen to be men (or whatever)!

I have no problem with people not wanting to lead or not wanting to ride with clubs.

Clubs are a cooperative effort. There is work that clubs need doing that isn't leading.

While it's unfortunate that many club members don't contribute to their club, that's just the way things are. It is, though, annoying when those people are overly picky about things!

Heck, group riding is a cooperative effort too!

chipcom 

Only if you're in a hurry and are afraid to eat a little wind

njkayaker

(No, it's a bit more than just that!)

slowandsteady

Well, now that is dumb. You don't get the right to complain about who is leading, when one isn't willing to lead. Heck, in my house we have a rule. If you aren't the one doing the activity you forfeit the right to complain about how it is being done. For example, don't come to me after I just spent 7 hours building a raised bed garden(by myself) and hauling 1,500 lbs of dirt to complain that you would really have preferred it be made of cedar instead. It is a rule that works well in my house and keeps everyone feeling appreciated and sane. Too bad more people don't have that rule in life.

njkayaker

That's what I was addressing!

To be clear, sunstorm wasn't really complaining but it's not clear that there is any real issue with the leaders of the apparently-popular "women only" being men.

chipcom 

actually it isn't

njkayaker

So, I guess you think it's OK to weave or ride unpredictably on group rides. It also seems that you would not point out any hazards to other people in the group or help people out who are having problems.

slowandsteady

I know, I was agreeing with you. That sort of thing is my personal pet peeve. I hate that!!!

My motto is: If you don't like it, but didn't do it, don't complain about it. If you still don't like it, do something about it yourself.

slowandsteady

So what is the deal with yelling CAR BACK! and BOTTLE! every three seconds when the ride is not a pace line? Seriously people, I have eyes, I can see (and smell) the dead skunk ahead. I have a mirror, so I know there is a car approaching. Somehow as kids when we rode all over the place we never had to yell about every conceivable hazard every three seconds. Yet, here I sit today...alive and well.

chipcom 

you're going off the deep end here and confusing competence and courtesy with cooperation.

Keith99

Bolding mine.

Seems fair. A almost always stop to be sure someone stopped is Ok. 99% of the time they are. If it is someone I know I may stay stopped and ride with them til the regroup next regroup point.

BUT it makes a huge difference that this is my choice. The stop itself is nothing, a feeling of responsibility is something entirely different.

Oh and stopping for someone who is glad for the help and/or company makes me feel good. Stoping for someone who feels entitled to help created a rather different feeling.

Keith99

I remember one ride where I was less than 30 feet behind a woman who was harrassed. Even a brute like me being close was not enough. I'd bet it would not have happened if I was right next to her.

slowandsteady

Bingo. It isn't that I ever really mind doing the activities involved with the responsibility, it is just that having that responsibility of work, home, and children can be draining. And women, who are mothers know full well what that feeling is like. Even though men help out so much more than they ever did, for the most part most men are seen as helping out rather than the full time parent. How often do I hear men referring to caring for their children for a couple of hours alone as babysitting? Too often. No woman on the planet would view it like this. I have yet to see a family where the dad had the primary duties and the woman was the helper. I am sure it exists, but it sure isn't common. And now, women have all the same responsibilities at work too. It is just too much to try to do it all. Something has to give. And if that is leading a cycling group...well then so be it.

slowandsteady

So I guess your manly spandex wasn't as threatening as you had hoped?

njkayaker

It's still cooperation.

And some people (especially starting out) don't get the "riding in a group" thing at all (even while otherwise being "competent" and "courteous").

njkayaker

Yes, some groups over-do that.

njkayaker

If you are benefiting from being in a club, contribute something, sometime. It doesn't have to be being a ride leader.

Keith99

In the groups I rode with car back was the most common, but it wasn't overdone. In fact the times where it was most common was with remote start rides just after the start. When we had just pulled out in a group of 50-100 riders and were on a 2 lane minimal shoulder road and would be taking up enough of the road to make safe passing impossible. But were still a long enough line that those in front could easily not hear a car behind.

Other than that the main call was either stopping or rolling when coming to a light that was changing.

And of course far too often 2 riders would call out at the same time, and not the same call.

I think calling out unexpected things can be worthwhile. Car back when there is a car that is waiting behind to pass or broken glass on a road that has been pristine for miles. But many groups do seem to overdo it. And only a fool thinks everythgni will get called out. For the really importnat things all you get is an explicitive.