Originally Posted by njkayaker
(Post 12932009)
I think people need to be clear about what the purpose (of a particular "women's only" ride) is. Then, one can discuss whether or not leaders (who happen to be male) can support that purpose.
While I might agree that it would be preferable to have women leaders, I assume that there is probably some reasonable (and boring) explanation of why that isn't happening. Given the apparent popularity of this ride (50 people is a huge turn-out), it doesn't seem necessary to have women leaders for this ride. I am responsible for three children and a job with tremendous stress and complexity impacting hundred of millions of dollars including my responsibility of my direct reports' career development. I am also responsible for my grandmother's health and welfare 7 days a week(she lives with me). Maybe, just maybe, I would like to have zero responsibility for others for like 2 hours a week and just show up at a ride for myself and no one else. |
Originally Posted by slowandsteady
(Post 12933122)
Maybe, just maybe, I would like to have zero responsibility for others for like 2 hours a week and just show up at a ride for myself and no one else.
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Originally Posted by slowandsteady
(Post 12933122)
Maybe, just maybe, I would like to have zero responsibility for others for like 2 hours a week and just show up at a ride for myself and no one else.
|
Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
(Post 12933191)
Why forget about "showing up at a ride" organized by others, and just get on your bike and ride wherever/whenever you feel like it?
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
(Post 12933191)
Why forget about "showing up at a ride" organized by others, and just get on your bike and ride wherever/whenever you feel like it?
It is just a nice change of pace to riding by myself or riding with family/friends at an excruciatingly slow pace. And guess what, I am the leader for my family rides. If the chain falls off of someone's bike, it is my job to fix it. I lube and maintenance all the bikes. I pull the trailer with my twins in it, not the others. I plan the routes since I know every single road in this area from 4 mile loops to 50+ mile loops including elevation changes. |
Originally Posted by chipcom
(Post 12933206)
perhaps that is one of the differences between her (women) and us (men) that is relevant to the OP - we (men) can go out on a ride by ourselves in relative peace, women, sadly, not so much (generally speaking).
Now, I tend to be a loner anyway, so I enjoy my quiet time along on the bike. And I have no qualms about beating someone with my u-lock if necessary. So fear isn't a factor for me per se. But aside from the fear factor, many women are quite social. If their friends don't bike, they may not be inclined to bike alone solely because they would prefer company. I often see many women walking for fitness in groups, more so than alone. Maybe that is why the female group rides have tons of women? |
Originally Posted by slowandsteady
(Post 12933311)
Now, I tend to be a loner anyway, so I enjoy my quiet time along on the bike. And I have no qualms about beating someone with my u-lock if necessary. So fear isn't a factor for me per se.
But aside from the fear factor, many women are quite social. If their friends don't bike, they may not be inclined to bike alone solely because they would prefer company. I often see many women walking for fitness in groups, more so than alone. Maybe that is why the female group rides have tons of women? |
Originally Posted by slowandsteady
(Post 12933122)
Originally Posted by njkayaker
(Post 12932009)
I think people need to be clear about what the purpose (of a particular "women's only" ride) is. Then, one can discuss whether or not leaders (who happen to be male) can support that purpose.
While I might agree that it would be preferable to have women leaders, I assume that there is probably some reasonable (and boring) explanation of why that isn't happening. Given the apparent popularity of this ride (50 people is a huge turn-out), it doesn't seem necessary to have women leaders for this ride. I am responsible for three children and a job with tremendous stress and complexity impacting hundred of millions of dollars including my responsibility of my direct reports' career development. I am also responsible for my grandmother's health and welfare 7 days a week(she lives with me). Maybe, just maybe, I would like to have zero responsibility for others for like 2 hours a week and just show up at a ride for myself and no one else. I haven't said that people should be leaders. They just should not be overly picky about the leaders they do get. I'm really talking about people who want leaders "complaining" that the leaders they do get happen to be men (or whatever)! I have no problem with people not wanting to lead or not wanting to ride with clubs.
Originally Posted by slowandsteady
(Post 12933289)
I do that more than 100 miles a week(5-6 days) every single week, nearly every week of the year. But sometimes I like to ride in another area with other human beings that can ride the speed and distances I do. My friends can't, so the only option to not ride alone(unless I feel like riding at a 9mph average) is to join a group ride. Also, group rides often push me more since I am forced to keep up with people who may be faster. I had done the Sunday breakfast ride(30 miles) a few years ago and it was really nice. BUT it also involved a journey through Camden NJ(most dangerous city in America). No freakin way I would ride there by myself.
While it's unfortunate that many club members don't contribute to their club, that's just the way things are. It is, though, annoying when those people are overly picky about things! Heck, group riding is a cooperative effort too! |
Originally Posted by njkayaker
(Post 12933357)
Heck, group riding is a cooperative effort too!
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Originally Posted by chipcom
(Post 12933500)
Only if you're in a hurry and are afraid to eat a little wind
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Originally Posted by njkayaker
(Post 12933357)
Your reply to my comment isn't really related to anything I said!
I haven't said that people should be leaders. They just should not be overly picky about the leaders they do get. I'm really talking about people who want leaders "complaining" that the leaders they do get happen to be men (or whatever)! I have no problem with people not wanting to lead or not wanting to ride with clubs. Clubs are a cooperative effort. There is work that clubs need doing that isn't leading. While it's unfortunate that many club members don't contribute to their club, that's just the way things are. It is, though, annoying when those people are overly picky about things! Heck, group riding is a cooperative effort too! Well, now that is dumb. You don't get the right to complain about who is leading, when one isn't willing to lead. Heck, in my house we have a rule. If you aren't the one doing the activity you forfeit the right to complain about how it is being done. For example, don't come to me after I just spent 7 hours building a raised bed garden(by myself) and hauling 1,500 lbs of dirt to complain that you would really have preferred it be made of cedar instead. It is a rule that works well in my house and keeps everyone feeling appreciated and sane. Too bad more people don't have that rule in life. |
Originally Posted by slowandsteady
(Post 12933533)
Well, now that is dumb. You don't get the right to complain about who is leading, when one isn't willing to lead. Heck, in my house we have a rule. If you aren't the one doing the activity you forfeit the right to complain about how it is being done. For example, don't come to me after I just spent 7 hours building a raised bed garden(by myself) and hauling 1,500 lbs of dirt to complain that you would really have preferred it be made of cedar instead. It is a rule that works well in my house and keeps everyone feeling appreciated and sane. Too bad more people don't have that rule in life.
To be clear, sunstorm wasn't really complaining but it's not clear that there is any real issue with the leaders of the apparently-popular "women only" being men. |
Originally Posted by njkayaker
(Post 12933512)
(No, it's a bit more than just that!)
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Originally Posted by chipcom
(Post 12933608)
actually it isn't
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Originally Posted by njkayaker
(Post 12933583)
That's what I was addressing!
To be clear, sunstorm wasn't really complaining but it's not clear that there is any real issue with the leaders of the apparently-popular "women only" being men. I know, I was agreeing with you. That sort of thing is my personal pet peeve. I hate that!!! :) My motto is: If you don't like it, but didn't do it, don't complain about it. If you still don't like it, do something about it yourself. |
Originally Posted by njkayaker
(Post 12933652)
So, I guess you think it's OK to weave or ride unpredictably on group rides. It also seems that you would not point out any hazards to other people in the group or help people out who are having problems.
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Originally Posted by njkayaker
(Post 12933652)
So, I guess you think it's OK to weave or ride unpredictably on group rides. It also seems that you would not point out any hazards to other people in the group or help people out who are having problems.
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Originally Posted by slowandsteady
(Post 12933122)
I have done a number of rides with the bicycle club of philadelphia. They are always looking for leaders of ride. Why don't I do it? I am tired of being a leader all the time. Sometimes it would be nice to just follow along and not have to have the responsibility.
I am responsible for three children and a job with tremendous stress and complexity impacting hundred of millions of dollars including my responsibility of my direct reports' career development. I am also responsible for my grandmother's health and welfare 7 days a week(she lives with me). Maybe, just maybe, I would like to have zero responsibility for others for like 2 hours a week and just show up at a ride for myself and no one else. Seems fair. A almost always stop to be sure someone stopped is Ok. 99% of the time they are. If it is someone I know I may stay stopped and ride with them til the regroup next regroup point. BUT it makes a huge difference that this is my choice. The stop itself is nothing, a feeling of responsibility is something entirely different. Oh and stopping for someone who is glad for the help and/or company makes me feel good. Stoping for someone who feels entitled to help created a rather different feeling. |
Originally Posted by chipcom
(Post 12933206)
perhaps that is one of the differences between her (women) and us (men) that is relevant to the OP - we (men) can go out on a ride by ourselves in relative peace, women, sadly, not so much (generally speaking).
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Originally Posted by Keith99
(Post 12933967)
Bolding mine.
Seems fair. A almost always stop to be sure someone stopped is Ok. 99% of the time they are. If it is someone I know I may stay stopped and ride with them til the regroup next regroup point. BUT it makes a huge difference that this is my choice. The stop itself is nothing, a feeling of responsibility is something entirely different. Oh and stopping for someone who is glad for the help and/or company makes me feel good. Stoping for someone who feels entitled to help created a rather different feeling. |
Originally Posted by Keith99
(Post 12933976)
I remember one ride where I was less than 30 feet behind a woman who was harrassed. Even a brute like me being close was not enough. I'd bet it would not have happened if I was right next to her.
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Originally Posted by chipcom
(Post 12933771)
you're going off the deep end here and confusing competence and courtesy with cooperation.
And some people (especially starting out) don't get the "riding in a group" thing at all (even while otherwise being "competent" and "courteous"). |
Originally Posted by slowandsteady
(Post 12933742)
So what is the deal with yelling CAR BACK! and BOTTLE! every three seconds when the ride is not a pace line? Seriously people, I have eyes, I can see (and smell) the dead skunk ahead. I have a mirror, so I know there is a car approaching. Somehow as kids when we rode all over the place we never had to yell about every conceivable hazard every three seconds. Yet, here I sit today...alive and well.
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Originally Posted by Keith99
(Post 12933967)
BUT it makes a huge difference that this is my choice. The stop itself is nothing, a feeling of responsibility is something entirely different.
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Originally Posted by slowandsteady
(Post 12933742)
So what is the deal with yelling CAR BACK! and BOTTLE! every three seconds when the ride is not a pace line? Seriously people, I have eyes, I can see (and smell) the dead skunk ahead. I have a mirror, so I know there is a car approaching. Somehow as kids when we rode all over the place we never had to yell about every conceivable hazard every three seconds. Yet, here I sit today...alive and well.
Other than that the main call was either stopping or rolling when coming to a light that was changing. And of course far too often 2 riders would call out at the same time, and not the same call. I think calling out unexpected things can be worthwhile. Car back when there is a car that is waiting behind to pass or broken glass on a road that has been pristine for miles. But many groups do seem to overdo it. And only a fool thinks everythgni will get called out. For the really importnat things all you get is an explicitive. |
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