hshearer

I got a taste of how most cyclists are treated today... no wonder people ride on the sidewalks!

Today, I rode more slowly than usual (20-25 km/h, versus my usual hustle on busy urban streets of 30-50 km/h). I was riding an upright hybrid bike, complete with street clothes and a helmet mounted mirror. I was just running my errands on the only through street, and not wanting to get sweaty while I did so.

In the space of only 200 m (about 700 feet) I got honked at (once), buzzed (once), completely denied the option to merge left to make my turn as I was approaching the intersection (by about a half-dozen drivers), and passed with aggressive-sounding acceleration (twice). This was on a busy 2-lane road, and the other lane was occupied by a truck which was slow to accelerate. Of course, it seemed I bore the brunt of the frustration over this minor delay.

I'd been starting to think that about 99.9% of motorists were good, because that's about how many of them are good to me. I might get honked at or buzzed once or twice a year (I ride about 10,000 miles annually). It turns out, they might tolerate fast cyclists, but they're downright rude, dangerous, and impatient towards actual human beings on bicycles... or was that just a speed bump?

So, if you're usually a speedy cyclist who thinks that anyone getting harassed or intimidated by busy roads is being a wussy, walk a mile in the other guy's shoes. Take a cruise at no more than 25 km/h (15 mph) on one of your usual routes. See how you get treated. Now imagine that you're a beginner cyclist and that you are frightened by cars.

As for me, I reported the guy who buzzed me*. I also plan to ride that street at lot more often, and much more slowly. I'm always seeing cyclists riding sidewalks down that street, and now I know why. No more hustling to make things more convenient for drivers (I like going fast, but I like making a point more). I want to show the sidewalk riders that drivers see me. I want to get the drivers used to the idea that bikes belong, all bikes, not just the fast ones. I will also contact my city about having some bike infrastructure added to that street, since there isn't a side-street option, and since it's a busy commercial district (the sidewalks are death-traps).

Anyone else find you're treated worse when you're not riding at the speed of sound?


*I was taking the lane... he was forced to wait for the other lane to be empty, and moved halfway into it, leaving about 4 inches between his mirror and my shoulder. What are these guys thinking? And why is it always a pick-up truck? One more reason I love my mirror is that this bs doesn't scare me... I know it's coming, so I can hold my line and watch beside me to see how close they try to get, and I know I can move right if I need to. I always have time to remember to get the plate, but I'm still not usually remembering to get a look at the driver. I hate tinted windows for that reason.

dynodonn

When I strained a back muscle and I couldn't reach my normal commute speeds, the wolfpack on the streets could sense my weakness, and they acted accordingly.

mnemia

I've definitely noticed that this is true. I often ride over to meet my wife at her workplace after work (she bike commutes too). We ride separately in the morning and then I ride over to her work and we ride home together. She's pretty fast, but does ride just a little bit more slowly than I normally do when I'm alone. And I've noticed the same thing: when riding at slower speeds, you get a lot more harassment and dangerous behavior from motorists. She's always talking about all these people pulling that kind of stuff, and I was wondering what the deal was because I generally wasn't experiencing it very often. Riding with her at a slightly more relaxed pace showed me that the harassment really does go up as you reach a higher speed differential.

Anecdotally, the crossover point seems to be somewhere in the upper teens or lower twenties. Once I'm over 20 mph or so, the rate of close passes, right hooks, yelling and honking, etc, seems to suddenly go way, way down (on the other hand, left hooks/failure to yield may become a bit more problematic because drivers are more likely to underestimate your speed). I think it's because somewhere around there you move from the "slow moving pedestrian" category in the motorists' minds and into "fast moving vehicle" territory. They've learned different strategies for dealing with pedestrians vs. vehicles while driving, and it's a matter of getting them to actually treat you as a vehicle, psychologically. If they do, things generally go smoothly. If they try to treat you as a pedestrian on wheels, they generally don't, if you're going much over walking speed. So that frustrates them and they take it out on us or make more bad decisions.

genec

Well stated.

I too have experienced this as when I commute, I tend to do so with loaded panniers... and my average speed is down near 14 MPH. When I ride for recreation, I throw off the panniers or ride a different bike and my speed goes up... especially the peak speeds (averages don't go up too much as my speed is still "moderated" by stop lights).

I had often attributed the harassment while commuting to the roads simply being crowded.

hshearer

I agree about the 20 mph tipping point. What makes me sad about this is that I'd have hoped drivers would be NICER to slow(er)-moving people (especially women) on bikes. Those are the people who might need a little extra accomodation as they ride on the roads. Naive, I know.

I guess it just shows how selfish some people can be... it's not about what the cyclist might be experiencing, just about how much in the way they are.

work4bike

Try the same thing in a car, with exactly the same speed; bet you get similar responses.

hshearer

You would, and possibly worse. But a car CAN go faster, so that would be impeding traffic, and there's a law against it.

The average person riding the typical mountain bike at 25 km/h is probably already doing everything he or she can to move it along.

mnemia

I think it's a little more complex than just selfishness, because I've also found that I don't get harassed much if I'm going fast and taking the lane (forcing them to change lanes completely in order to pass me). You can't get much more "in the way" than that, but I don't get harassed much when I do that. So, that's why I have the theory that it's more about whether they're thinking of you as another vehicle or as a pedestrian stopped in the road. Motorists get stuck behind other vehicles all the time, and they don't flip out and throw things every time that happens. Instead, it's just that they aren't skilled at driving correctly around slower cyclists, who they don't perceive as vehicle operators. Dealing with fast cyclists, they can use the normal vehicle "rules" they have in their head. Dealing with slow pedestrians, they can use the normal pedestrian "rules" (though that's become more problematic in recent years too, as pedestrians have become scarcer in many areas outside of big cities). But the "slow" cyclists are somewhere in between, where the drivers don't know which set of rules to apply. This confuses and frustrates them, and it comes out as harassment. That's my theory, anyway.

I do think this is likely an under-appreciated factor in how hard it is to get people to adopt cycling as a means of transportation. If you're a beginner cyclist, things are going to be more intimidating for you if you get harassed MORE because you aren't able to ride as fast yet. I'd bet that that puts a lot of people off from continuing with attempting it. I can't tell you how many casual riders I've talked to who say things like "yeah, I only ride in the parks, because I tried riding on the road a few times and motorists were jerks to me".

work4bike

That's true, but the issue is with "intent". If a cyclist shows an intent or at least a total disregard for them slowing down traffic it tends to provoke more of an emotional response. I ride on many shoulderless roads here in Florida and don't really have much of a problem (other than the usual stuff), but if I took the lane and rode 20mph during rush hour I'm going to get more grief than I do normally. It's just human nature. That's why I always try to share the road (it's a two-way street) It's not only incumbent on motorists sharing the road, we also have to share the road.

mnemia

More grief taking the lane and going 20 mph vs. what? Going more slowly? Or faster than that?

I ask because, as I said, I've found that I get harassed LESS often when I take the lane at a reasonably high speed than when I hug the curb (actually, I've found that I often get harassed the most when I'm in a bike lane!).

I agree that we also need to share the road, but why are motorists harassing slower cyclists the most? It isn't showing an "intent" to slow cars down simply to be riding more slowly on the roadway.

Bekologist

the crucial element is speed differential and bicyclist level of service -the BLOS- of the roadway.

Ride slower on a traffic calmed, 20mph neighborhood greenway and there's not going to be any issue.

riding slower in urban arterials motorists are moving 70km/hr, yeah , a slower rider - if there is not considerate on road planning for bike traffic - may be disregarded or viewed as an impediment to other road users.

ride a busy arterial with considerate bikelane designs, and there's really no problem no matter how slow a rider is going.


Personally, I commute on an upright bike.

work4bike

On many of the roads I ride the speed limit is between 35-45mph. I normally motor around at 18-20mph. The op said his/her normal speed is between 30-50 km/h (18-31mph). I can hit speeds of 30plus mph, but not for long, so I question the op's actual cruising speed. But aside from that regardless if I cruise around at 10 mph or 20 mph most of the roads I am a hinderance to traffic, because they are going much faster and the further I'm out in the lane the bigger a hinderance I am.

So (and this depends on they type of roads) my speed is not really a factor, it's how much I hinder the cars by how far out in the lane I'm positioned.

hshearer

Haha, that's just my typical 'hauling ass' range... I by no means claim to cruise around at 50 km/h. I use it in town when I'm trying to not irritate drivers, something I'm getting less and less inclined to make an effort to do. On the other hand, I do okay at racing, so I'm pretty sure I can lay claim to the title 'fastest woman in town'. If someone loses their cool over me, I'm guessing they pretty much harass everyone on a bike.

I just found it interesting how much crazier the road riding experience is when you slow things down, even a little. I do remember getting more harassment when I first started riding, and I think this is why. It was an eye-opener, because I'd been starting to think that people who were getting harassed were just not riding assertively enough... turns out maybe they aren't riding FAST enough, and that sucks. Sometimes, you just don't want to (or can't) go any faster.

genec

I drive the speed limit or lower all the time. I can't remember the last time I was honked at or yelled at. Motorists simply go around.

I have had one aggressive motorist ever give me any grief while driving... and he was quite smug about it... a real jerk. Motorists tolerate other motorists far better than they tolerate cyclists.

genec

Totally aside... what's with the mixing of units here? MPH vrs KPH?

Ratzinger

Interesting, though I haven't found it to be the case for me. I've been doing a lot of slow meandering around town and I haven't noticed any difference. Though, in the city when I'm taking the lane I usually pick up the pace, and when I think I'm slowing down cars I think I try not to be too slow.
But people do need the freedom to go as slowly as they need to to be safe, escially around turn and the streetcar tracks around here.

mnemia

How much you hinder cars also depends on how the cars behave around you, and not just how you ride. If they treat you as a vehicle and smoothly change lanes to go around you, then you may not hinder them much at all. If they slam on their brakes because they don't know if they can pass you safely within the lane, then you're hindering them more. That's part of why I think I don't get as much harassment when I'm riding faster: they pass me like a slower vehicle, and are quickly past without incident. Slower bicyclists, by contrast, seem to cause a lot of motorists to slow down and act unsure about what to do, and I think that's part of why they get more harassment. So it's not just the speed but also the way that motorists react to the way you're riding (which includes your speed).

I ride on a lot of 35 mph roads where I never get any harassment riding in the right tire track (usually at around 20 mph). The motorists usually don't speed as much there, though, because they're winding residential roads, so the speed differential is less. The road where I get harassed the most, and had a small crash because of an idiot move pulled by a motorist, is a much higher-speed arterial with a bike lane. Despite the fact that I'm totally out of their way in the bike lane, they still throw things and yell stuff at me on occasion (that road also has a very steep hill where I often have to slow to 6-8 mph or so while climbing, and that just exacerbates it). So that's why I'm convinced that speed differential matters more than lane position as far as how much motorist harassment we receive.

FunkyStickman

ROTFL... I wouldn't know. I always ride at 15MPH or slower when commuting, I just can't push that much faster for long with panniers and 1.5" tires.

In my experience, 15MPH is fast enough to not be in the way on my rural 2-lane (usually shoudlerless) roads. I take the lane when there's oncoming traffic, forcing the rear-approaching cars to slow down. Then when it's safe for them to pass, I move to the right and wave them around, and it seems to work much better than just holding my line and hoping for the best. I have to be active about letting them know I see them, and letting them know when it's safe to pass. I've only had 1 or 2 people give me a hard time since I've been doing this. I probably have to take the lane to block unsafe passers maybe 3-4 times a day, and I haven't been scared more than once or twice in a year.

Bekologist

Oh, living so close to canada i get muddled. No, halfway thru I realized I was responding to a Canadian and switched to kilometers.

Its a greater than 2X speed differential that makes bikes to some motorists less 'legitimate' traffic and into a perceived impedance.

I'm agree with funnystickman, I find communication with motorists and riding in a primary/secondary positioning style while riding makes my interaction with other vehicles much smoother in any type of traffic, and I still ride quite 'assertively' in my road use.

mnemia

Maybe electric-assist bikes could help some people who aren't yet able to ride very fast or don't want to put in the effort. But yes, I think you're correct that it's mainly speed differential that makes the difference.

Another interesting one might be to compare how often male vs. female cyclists get harassed. From riding with me and alone, my wife is convinced that while she gets more cat-calling-type harassment, I get more "macho male"-type aggressive harassment (and I also think I get more when I'm wearing Lycra shorts than when I'm in more "normal" clothes). I think it would be a very interesting for someone to rigorously study this weird phenomenon, and the strange psychology behind roadway harassment.

contango 

Well put, although I think the actual speed at which a cyclist makes that transition from "slow moving obstacle" to "normally moving vehicle" is variable depending on a number of conditions.

In my home town when the traffic gets thick it's not uncommon for me to fly past the traffic in the bike lane when I'm doing 15mph, and on one particular hill near home I managed to seriously annoy the driver of a Porsche 911 turbo because he had to keep slowing down for the chicanes and other traffic-calming measures and I didn't, and with the hill I was maintaining just a whisker under the 30mph posted speed limit.

mnemia

Probably so. I generally try to choose streets with lower speed limits to ride on, so it might just be the speed differential rather than the absolute speed. We have a huge arterial near here that is 8 lanes wide with a 45 mph speed limit, and cars routinely drive 65 on it. I've tried taking the lane there, and it's really intimidating even at the same riding speeds where I wouldn't have a problem on a 35 mph road. Maybe motorists just get pissy when they have to slow by more than a certain amount.

TheHen

Good point. However, the solution being proposed by the Copenhagenistas is to put in (some) infrastructural changes that increase the perceived safety of slow cyclists while putting faster cyclists at risk. I am referring to "cycletracks" which are bike lanes "buffered" by parked cars. If one is moving at 20-25 km/hr, those can work fine. If you ride 40-50 km/hr and the cycletrack has driveways and intersections, you will be in for an exciting ride, to say the least.

KD5NRH

Have you tried it with actual human beings, or just Canadians?

bcubed

Then there's the other side of the coin: motorists have a preconception re: how fast a bicycle/pedestrian/non-motorized whatever can go, and make decisions (like "can I pull out ahead of/turn left in front of") based on those preconceptions. Thus, a speedy rider might be treated more courteously, but have to be prepared for more "-hook" shenanigans.

This makes me think of two related points:

1) This seems to be where the danger of sidewalks comes in: a slow user of the roadway might get intimidated off the road, onto the sidewalk, where they are now an unusually fast user of the sidewalk. Thus, the problem with "hooking" (no, not that).

Thus, if one feels too intimidated, due to speed, to use the roadway, one should slow down even more if using a sidewalk/ "glorified sidewalk" type of MUP.

2) Given the trouble associated with motorists making poor assumptions re: speed, is it safer to "dress according to stereotype"? I.E. if you are capable of cycling at "lycra" speeds, is dressing up like a "bike dork" inherently safer than dressing up like "I just got my third DUI?"