I-Like-To-Bike

I can see why you view the columnist as "reasonable" since you are as clueless about risk as he, and have an unreasonable personal definition of a "scofflaw rider," and "naked, brazen kind of stupidity."

Keith99

Is some idiot actually talking about keeping some lanes open? This is about demolishing a bridge 50-100 feet above the freeway and rebuilding it. Things absolutely have to be closed while things come down and I'd bet for most of when thnigs are going up.

Keith99

And when. SFVBC starts their rides from the main parking lot a CSUN which means Nordhoff. A nice wide street and rather plesant on weekends. It would seem like a shooting gallery 15 minutes before the 8 or 9 O'clock classes start on weekdays.

Muholland Drive is also nice on weekends or weekdays til about 3 or 3:30 after that ruch hour traffic hits and it gets to be far from fun.

And I've learned through close calls going near any Highschool near lunch or when classes start or end is not a good idea.

KD5NRH

Actually, yes; for the same reason that helmets and seat belts are different. Unless you're in an area with low branches, nothing that brings the helmet into the equation at all will leave you with any chance of controlling the bike afterward; you're either on the ground or attached to a car at that point. A driver in a minor hit is quite likely to have the opportunity to maintain or regain at least some control over the car (skill to maintain or regain control is another issue) as long as they're still upright, in the driver's seat, and conscious. A seat belt makes all three of those far more likely.

2wheelcommute

????

Digital_Cowboy

Sadly, way too many people are under that misconception. Where do they get the idea that the "costs" of roads are paid for by the gas tax, registration and licensing fees?

Digital_Cowboy

And I've countless motorists who have taken corners too wide and have had to snap their steering wheel back in order to avoid hitting someone sitting at a red light. How hard is it for them to stay in their lane?

Digital_Cowboy

And don't forget the speeders. They talk about wanting to make the roads safer, but what are they really doing to make the roads safer?

dynodonn 

I very seldom see that locally, probably because of the fact that our local bad driving motorists will generally live to drive again in a bike/car collision, and our bad riding local cyclists will not ride again, if they happen to ride again, it's with more caution.

AlmostTrick

Good point. One day last week I watched (in my mirror) a couple of motorists 7 or eight vehicles behind me drive off into the shoulder while jamming on their brakes. This was on a 50 mph road and I was going about 20. As usual, the operator directly behind me had no problem slowing in a controlled and safe fashion. It's the tailgaters behind him that were not prepared to operate their vehicle safely.

As you, I notice motorist tailgating is common behavior. (and the most dangerous, I believe) Even though I was abiding by all the laws I have little doubt that most motorists would put the blame on me for their near wreck, just because I was there.

A co-worker proved this to me when she started yelling at me as soon as she seen me in the office one morning. "I was going 45 one second and the next I had to slam on my brakes down to 5." "YOU ALMOST CAUSED AN ACCIDENT!"

Again, she was several cars back. I assured her that I was following all the rules and also told her that I was traveling about 20 mph, not 5. When I asked if she was paying attention or tailgating she never answered my question because in her mind that didn't matter. Her near crash could only be my fault.

Digital_Cowboy

Isn't that the same thought process that motorists use when they say that we "big, bad, mean cyclists somehow "force" motorists to pass us "unsafely?"

contango 

Obviously just as hard as for some bikes. Hence the point that it's a two way street.

genec

Well, yes, of course. We cyclists are just "bad" that way.

trackhub

An interesting article, thanks for posting. I was in LA for three months, during 1982. Back then, it was extremely rare to see a cyclist on the road. Good to know that there are more riders
out there now.

It's also refreshing to hear a police officer of a huge police department actually state that "All the rules of the road apply equally to bikes and cars,". Sounds like Sgt. Kunz of the LAPD should
have a talk with his fellow LEOs of the NYPD.

billdsd

Bicyclists don't always have to keep far right and they can only use "any" lane when they are going the normal speed of traffic. At less than the normal speed of traffic they can use the left lane to make a left turn or while riding on a 1-way street. Otherwise they need to use the right lane.

He doesn't understand the minimum speed law either.

DX-MAN

I'm with this thought.

No, drivers do not toe the line when it comes to responsible and legal driving.
No, cyclists do not toe the line when it comes to responsible and legal cycling.
Generally......... There are always exceptions, but the scofflaws get the attention. Society has learned to 'manage by exception', and this is the result.

BOTH groups need a check-up from the neck up. Remedial traffic law 101, anyone...?

Digital_Cowboy

The thing that I find ironic when they (motorists) do that is the look of disgust on their face when they see someone sitting in the lane (the legal lane for the other person) that they wanted to turn into. As if the person in the correct lane has done something wrong.

When if I'm not mistaken it is/was the turning motorist who did something wrong.

buzzman

"Bicyclists" are just people on bikes and "drivers" are just people behind the wheel of a car. Next time you're in a busy supermarket take note of how some people "drive" their grocery carts, blocking aisles, cutting in line at registers, letting them crash into someone's car door in the lot.

Painting one group of road users as the "problem" doesn't address the real problem at all, which is that people do screwed up things and we need infrastructure that reduces the potential for conflict and accidents.

And certain solid facts do apply here, which is carelessness on a bike tends to be self destructive. Carelessness in an automobile usually impacts others as seriously, or in the case of bicyclists and pedestrians more seriously.

The roughly 3000 lb. difference in vehicle weight and the speed differential that can be 5's greater in the auto puts the greater onus of responsible use on the person behind the wheel of the car.

Brennan

Yes, in LA, it's the cyclists that are the problem. All the motorists there are law abiding and courteous at all times, and never cause traffic delays. Ah, what a utopia it would be without bicycles.

mnemia

I think that society in general has gotten really narcissistic and selfish. People don't want to admit that they themselves are fallible, and so they project their fears about their own failings onto others that they encounter out in public. In the case you're describing, they don't like to think about the fact that their own lack of control over their vehicle nearly caused them to plow into someone else's vehicle, so they project that fear they feel onto the other driver. I believe this same dynamic is involved in a lot of the less than pleasant "interactions" we have with motorists while riding our bikes. They subconsciously fear their own lack of skills in driving around cyclists, and their own uncertainty about the rules in such a situation. But those are unpleasant emotions, and so they project them onto the cyclist who made them feel that way (usually as anger).

Basically, our society's terminal lack of emotional and intellectual maturity causes people to channel their discomfort with unfamiliar situations onto the other actors involved in the unfamiliar situation. They do this rather than actually acting reasonably and examining ways in which they could improve their own driving skills so that those situations wouldn't feel so perilous. People seem angry all the time, and lash out at everything and everyone around them rather than change something about themselves. I blame the economy, but also lack of exercise. I know that I get keyed up and stressed out whenever I have a week where I have to do a lot of driving and can't bike as much as I normally do for whatever reason. So, consider that some of those drivers NEVER get real stress relief from doing something physically active, and are always subjected to the stresses of driving a car or truck, and it's a bit more understandable, though not excusable. I actually think the car society in the U.S. is damaging people's mental health.

genec

Not to mention physical health...

https://www.yankton.net/articles/2011...9487807261.txt

mnemia

Absolutely, and in the past I've seen some very strong data correlating the typical number of miles driven in a specific county with the local obesity rates. There are also strong correlations between obesity and occupations that involve a lot of driving, such as truck drivers and traveling sales reps. The more miles people drive, the more overweight they become, it seems. We don't know exactly why this is, but some of the reasons I've seen proposed are that people simply don't get enough exercise because they're spending more of their time sitting in traffic, or that a totally car-based lifestyle encourages other unhealthy behaviors such as high consumption of fast food purchased from drive-through windows. It's probably a combination.

I'd be interested to know if there is a similar correlation between number of miles driven and mental health issues. I haven't seen similar strong epidemiological data for that like I have for obesity (it's probably harder to study that, since mental health is more "invisible" and less easily objectively measured). If someone has already done that, I think it would be interesting to read, and a possible explanation for the seeming explosion in mental health problems in the U.S.

crhilton

The trouble is, when somebody loses on this it's the guy on the bike. And when this battle ends (if it ever does) it's not gonna be motorists being banned from roadways.

So, I tend to be a little more lenient on the idiot on the bike who poses a marginal threat to my person compared to the motorist. And I tend to give him some leeway given he's a part of a tiny minority.

There's little to be done aside from reminding motorists of why we're often treated differently by law enforcement and reminding them of just how much extra responsibility they have with that car. There are PLENTY of people to remind bicyclists that they're not perfect.

When I hear this complaint (scofflaw cyclists) from a motorist I remind them that the law applies to the bicyclist and that they should complain to their local law enforcement division about the lack of enforcement on bicyclists. That's really where the problem lies at a societal/legal level. I can't convince red light runners to stop. I'd be doing well to tell one in one hundred of the local guys that do it that I think they should stop. A ticket from a cop would do far more.