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The helmet thread

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The helmet thread

Old 07-18-12, 07:19 AM
  #2976  
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skye

The trolls here are the anti helmet clik that jumpes IMMEDIATELY on anyone that says a helmet saved them from injury!!!! It happened to me and others, and we doesnt fit your position, so we are attacked. If you dont want to wear a helmet ------fine. It will be no skin off my scalp!!!!!
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Old 07-18-12, 07:24 AM
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I also readly admit a helmet is not of much use if someone is hit by a car doing 75mph. On the other hand your padded spandex shorts wont help you much if you sit on a stick of dynamite. I dont have to wear padded shorts since I ride a comfortable recumbent.

BTW I now own and ride a recumbent tadpole trike. The need for a helmet on such a low stable trike is much reduced, but I still wear the helmet for all the other reasons that a helmet provides.
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Old 07-18-12, 07:30 AM
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Originally Posted by rydabent
I still wear the helmet for all the other reasons that a helmet provides.
Your helmet is talking to you now?
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Old 07-18-12, 07:34 AM
  #2979  
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Interestingly, I was at this site, and looking at the results from their testing. They state in their description that the criteria of failure is "fail to crush."

So, once again I say to all of you anecdote lovers screaming "Look at my helmet!!! IT CRACKED!!! I WOULD HAVE DIED WITHOUT IT!!!", according to the BHSI itself, your helmet failed to reduce concussion risk.
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Old 07-18-12, 08:03 AM
  #2980  
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Originally Posted by CB HI
In police speak, they are saying "We have decided we are willing to prosecute as long as you are willing to show up and testify. If you are not willing to show up or are not interested in the prosecution, we will not bother trying."
That's exactly what my first thought was as well, but I wasn't sure how they do things over there...
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Old 07-18-12, 10:03 AM
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Originally Posted by sudo bike
That's exactly what my first thought was as well, but I wasn't sure how they do things over there...
It certainly isn't usual over here. In fact they are usually very keen to make it clear that the victim doesn't have a role in the decision. But you may be right.
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Old 07-18-12, 02:09 PM
  #2982  
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Originally Posted by skye
Interestingly, I was at this site, and looking at the results from their testing. They state in their description that the criteria of failure is "fail to crush."

So, once again I say to all of you anecdote lovers screaming "Look at my helmet!!! IT CRACKED!!! I WOULD HAVE DIED WITHOUT IT!!!", according to the BHSI itself, your helmet failed to reduce concussion risk.
So much fail in one post:

Regarding the "fail to crush" failure criteria, what they actually say is, "We were looking to see if the harder foam in more expensive helmets might fail to crush enough in less-than-catastropic impacts, possibly contributing to concussion risk. In fact, that did not happen."

Cracking is not evidence by itself that a foam liner did not crush -- some fail after or during crushing action.

Helmets are not designed to reduce concussions -- I wouldn't expect a helmet, one that worked or one that didn't, to mitigate concussion.
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Old 07-18-12, 03:56 PM
  #2983  
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Originally Posted by mconlonx
Helmets are not designed to reduce concussions -- I wouldn't expect a helmet, one that worked or one that didn't, to mitigate concussion.
What injury risk do you expect helmet wear to mitigate? Do you expect this assumed risk mitigation to be greater than negligible, if it is even measurable?
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Old 07-18-12, 04:08 PM
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
What injury risk do you expect helmet wear to mitigate? Do you expect this assumed risk mitigation to be greater than negligible, if it is even measurable?
Mainly? Laceration/tears, contusion, road rash. I expect a helmet help and protect when less than serious head injury might otherwise be sustained. I don't not expect injury mitigation to be greater than negligible. Measurable? Maybe, but I've so far not seen studies regarding less than serious head injury, so I can't say for sure, not being any kind of safety/medical/statistics expert.
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Old 07-18-12, 08:19 PM
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Originally Posted by mconlonx
Mainly? Laceration/tears, contusion, road rash. I expect a helmet help and protect when less than serious head injury might otherwise be sustained. I don't not expect injury mitigation to be greater than negligible. Measurable? Maybe, but I've so far not seen studies regarding less than serious head injury, so I can't say for sure, not being any kind of safety/medical/statistics expert.

Your expectations seem in line with the design limitations and associated limited capabilities of helmets to reduce cyclists' risk.
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Old 07-18-12, 11:06 PM
  #2986  
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If a helmet is only to prevent Laceration/tears, contusion, road rash, then why not just wear the old fashion leather helmets, or also known as the skid lid, I use to call them hairnets, they use to make?
https://www.gadget-fever.com/leather-...ed-p-5820.html


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Old 07-18-12, 11:57 PM
  #2987  
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I found this beauty for $19 and clearly states - not for use while riding. . .?

from the site,
"First of all, don't no way, never, no-how wear La Bicicletta's Leather Hairnet while riding your bike. It's not certified by any safety agency, not designed in any manner whatsoever to protect your head, and is no kind of substitute for a real helmet in even the most remote way."

Last edited by Rx Rider; 07-19-12 at 12:01 AM.
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Old 07-19-12, 02:37 AM
  #2988  
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I got these two helmets from my bikeshop.

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Old 07-19-12, 04:47 AM
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Originally Posted by paulkal
I got these two helmets from my bikeshop.
So what?
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Old 07-19-12, 10:41 AM
  #2990  
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
So what?

Ebony and Ivory! Duh.
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Old 07-19-12, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
Your expectations seem in line with the design limitations and associated limited capabilities of helmets to reduce cyclists' risk.
Thank you. They are. I don't claim otherwise. Can't say the same for some helmet deniers, who would grant helmets less protection than they might actually afford.

I.e., will the cost of a helmet exceed or not emergency room treatment for less than serious injuries which a helmet is designed to protect against? I have no actual idea, but I wear a helmet because I feel that the cost of wearing a helmet is less than treatment would be if I crashed, hit my head, and wasn't wearing a helmet in a less than "serious head injury" situation, which would be the majority of head injuries sustained in a cycling accident.

You talk about the limitations of helmets, but these "limitations" are in excess of what protection a naked head might provide in the case of a crash resulting in head injury. Like other helmet-skeptics, the language you choose is telling and prejudiced...

Last edited by mconlonx; 07-19-12 at 11:10 AM.
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Old 07-19-12, 11:13 AM
  #2992  
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Originally Posted by rekmeyata
If a helmet is only to prevent Laceration/tears, contusion, road rash, then why not just wear the old fashion leather helmets, or also known as the skid lid
Not to be confused with the Skid-Lid, pretty big in the 1980s. They were pretty heavy despite all the voids.

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Old 07-19-12, 04:02 PM
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Originally Posted by njkayaker
What's bizarre is the implication that people shouldn't ride "fragile" racing bikes fast.
Really? I read it as: People that ride upright, solid bicycles at lower speeds tend to have fewer accidents than MAMILs that haven't bothered to acquire bike handling skills before they do high-speed descents.

Or are you questioning that a bicycle optimized for racing is more fragile than a gaspipe clunker?

Originally Posted by njkayaker

It's interesting that you don't see the bias. It portrays "roadies" as reckless (the bikes are not particularly "fragile").
I take it then you've never actually raced?



Originally Posted by njkayaker
Note, too, that a standard argument of the anti-helmet crowd is that all cycling is low risk and riders in the Netherlands are all exactly like the riders in the US.
Is it? I thought the argument was that the US and Australia and Canada are broadly similar in road rules, treatments and cycling populations and it's clear that those countries/provinces which have adopted MHLs can show no improvement in serious head injury..... just a decrease in the number of cyclists.

Whereas in Holland where there are fewer uptight people and better infrastructure the question doesn't even begin to arise.
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Old 07-19-12, 04:39 PM
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Originally Posted by RazrSkutr
Really? I read it as: People that ride upright, solid bicycles at lower speeds tend to have fewer accidents than MAMILs that haven't bothered to acquire bike handling skills before they do high-speed descents.
??? Your crystal ball is telling you all this? The accidents are only "high-speed descents"?

It's quite possible that the only thing that helps "people that ride upright, solid bicycles at lower speeds" isn't that they are more skillful.

Originally Posted by RazrSkutr
Or are you questioning that a bicycle optimized for racing is more fragile than a gaspipe clunker?
So what? A "clunker" isn't any safer in a collision at a particular because it's heavy. It's quite rare for "fragile" bikes to spontaneously fall apart.

Originally Posted by RazrSkutr
I take it then you've never actually raced?
Who is talking about racing? Everybody on racing bikes are racing them?

Originally Posted by RazrSkutr
Is it?
Yup. You just aren't paying attention.

It's common that the anti-helmet crowd says helmets are unnecessary in the US because people in the Netherlands don't use them. There's no indication that they expect people in the US to change the way they ride by riding heavy bicycles slowly (on non-existent bicycle highways).

Last edited by njkayaker; 07-19-12 at 04:46 PM.
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Old 07-19-12, 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Rx Rider
I found this beauty for $19 and clearly states - not for use while riding. . .?

from the site,
"First of all, don't no way, never, no-how wear La Bicicletta's Leather Hairnet while riding your bike. It's not certified by any safety agency, not designed in any manner whatsoever to protect your head, and is no kind of substitute for a real helmet in even the most remote way."
Why not wear it cycling? I mean if no helmet is better then is that thing going to kill you faster then no helmet?
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Old 07-19-12, 04:43 PM
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Originally Posted by LesterOfPuppets
Not to be confused with the Skid-Lid, pretty big in the 1980s. They were pretty heavy despite all the voids.

Not to be confused but that is the Skid Lid brand of helmets, we use to call the old leather ones skid lids before that brand came out, the brand stole the street nickname of the leather helmets and applied the name to their line of helmets.

Reason why the helmet was heavy was due to the tough outer plastic covering, similar to toughness as the Bell Tourlite which also made the Bell heavy back then.
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Old 07-20-12, 06:07 AM
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Originally Posted by mconlonx
Thank you. They are. I don't claim otherwise. Can't say the same for some helmet deniers, who would grant helmets less protection than they might actually afford.

I.e., will the cost of a helmet exceed or not emergency room treatment for less than serious injuries which a helmet is designed to protect against? I have no actual idea, but I wear a helmet because I feel that the cost of wearing a helmet is less than treatment would be if I crashed, hit my head, and wasn't wearing a helmet in a less than "serious head injury" situation, which would be the majority of head injuries sustained in a cycling accident.

You talk about the limitations of helmets, but these "limitations" are in excess of what protection a naked head might provide in the case of a crash resulting in head injury. Like other helmet-skeptics, the language you choose is telling and prejudiced...
Of course a helmet offers a value added even if the risk reduction benefit is infinitesimal (as I believe), IF you choose to ignore every and all the costs of wearing one.

You choose to ignore "costs" such as purchase/replacement price, discomfort when worn, sponge for sweat effect , incompatibility with other head/rain gear, hygiene/smell, logistics of schlepping it around, and not to be ignored, personal appearance.
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Old 07-20-12, 06:14 AM
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Originally Posted by rekmeyata
Why not wear it cycling? I mean if no helmet is better then is that thing going to kill you faster then no helmet?
Exactly and conversely true; currently offered helmets are just as useless for reducing cycling risk. The only significant difference between the old and new helmet is the intensity of the sales promotion scheme.
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Old 07-20-12, 09:09 AM
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
Exactly and conversely true; currently offered helmets are just as useless for reducing cycling risk. The only significant difference between the old and new helmet is the intensity of the sales promotion scheme.
Also, the new (EPS) helmets are easier, faster, and cheaper to make.

Throw in frequent replacement (needed or not) and MHLs, now we're talking profit! Profit, at societies expense.
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Old 07-20-12, 09:34 AM
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Originally Posted by njkayaker
It's common that the anti-helmet crowd says helmets are unnecessary in the US because people in the Netherlands don't use them.
Greetings from the Netherlands! Seeing quite a few people wearing helmets here.
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