ninjamunky

Okay I'm new here, and currently don't wear a helmet. I also ride a motorcycle, and when I do it's ATGATT (All The Gear All The Time), but when I'm riding my bike I'm not wearing any gear.

I'm just wondering what stats show for bicycle collisions. From what I've read about motorcycle accidents, in most crashes where the head hits the pavement the chin hits first. Meaning a half helmet is basically useless in the majority of accidents.

But bicycle helmets only cover the top of the head, so how does it help exactly? Or should I just be riding my bike in full leathers and a full face helmet? Just asking, ... I mean any accidents that I've had on a bicycle were at such a slow speed that i was able to land on my feet.

skye

A couple of places to take a look would be www.cyclehelmets.org, and also this from the European Cycling Federation: https://www.ecf.com/road-safety/helme...lective-vests/

Incidentally, I do the same as you. On the motorbike, it's ATGATT for me as well. On the bicycle, I'm bareheaded (and often wearing a tie).

John C. Ratliff

ninjamunky,

Here is a report by the Snell Foundation about bicycle helmets. It contains this chart:

https://www.smf.org/docs/articles/images/fig19.gif

That should give you an answer to where the helmets involved in accidents were damaged.

Here is the entire report:

https://www.smf.org/docs/articles/report#A9

John

John C. Ratliff

Lester, I know you are a jester, but there are no "poor bike handling skills genes." So it cannot be handed down generation to generation. But if a person's health is retained by a bike helmet when that person was in a crash, perhaps other genes would be passed along that are valuable in deciding to bike rather than use a car. But the time line is pretty long to see results.

John

mconlonx

I used to ride a motorcycle and was the same, ATGATT. Full face helmet, Aerostitch Roacrafter 1pc w/ armor, boots, gloves.

Out of the same kind of respect for a vehicle, I started wearing a helmet on a bicycle. For what turned out to be many of the wrong reasons, which various people on this thread were kind (ha!) enough to disabuse me of.

I still wear one, but mainly because I think helmets are way cool and I don't have a motorcycle anymore upon which to get my helmet-freak on. Also, in case I crash and am in a situation where I might suffer a light to moderate head injury.

ninjamunky

Okay guys, Thanks for the info. I'll probably end up getting a helmet. It couldn't hurt to wear one.

rydabent

As I have stated many times here all the the "studies" by all the "learned" researches arent really worth a warm bucket of spit to me. Only real world accident reports mean anything at all. Since I was saved some pain and injury by my helmet it is all the proof I need.

Maybe if I put it this way--------would you believe how good sex is by reading about it, or would you rather find out how good it is by having sex. BTW I DO NOT wear a helmet while having sex,

mconlonx

^^^ It must be Monday...

350htrr

My eyes glazed over and my head started to spin when I went onto this page... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odds_ratio I think I will stick with my KISS method, the numbers are good enough for me... Divide how many ACTUAL deaths helmet-less, compared to ACTUAL deaths helmeted, close enough to give the general outcome... JMO If you want to also add the % of each type of rider and total number of riders into the equation to get a "better" number that also works for me but that's as complicated as it needs to get to show possible outcome WHEN there is an ACTUAL head injury in an accident. (not talking odds of getting INTO an accident, or the odds of getting a head injury in an accident)...

mconlonx

Not really, but keep believing that.

(Hint: it needs to be very much more complicated in order for that ratio to actually mean what you think it does.)

You keep using that reasoning... I do not think it means what you think it does...

350htrr

So what other numbers would you need, to get a basic idea of what happens to people, when they are in a MAJOR accident with a head injury with a helmet or without a helmet?

A; # of people that go to Emergency, (not really relevant)
B; # of people with head injuries that went to Emergency,
C; # of people wearing helmets that had head injuries,
D; # of people died from head injuries wearing helmets,
E; # of people not-wearing helmets and had head injuries,
F; # of people died from head injuries not-wearing helmets
G; # of people that you don't know whether they were wearing helmets or not and had head injuries and went to Emergency,
H; # of people that died from head injuries who you don't known whether they were wearing helmets or not,

?

ninjamunky

Well I rode over to my local Wally world and picked up a helmet. I'm not too cool to wear one. ha ha
Got this one https://www.walmart.com/ip/Bell-Radar...Adult/17254734

Also bought a bright fluorescent yellow hoody, to give the cagers a better chance of seeing me.

LesterOfPuppets

I was checking out their Hi-viz hoodies while there getting a can of CampDry the other day. Might have to get back over there and grab one if it ever stops raining.

None of their helmets are as nice as my lowend Giro so I had to pass on them.

skye

Cycling safety is much more closely related on how you ride than it is on hi-viz or helmetry. Rather than waste your money on equipment, you would be far safer to invest in a LAB Road 1 course.

ninjamunky

Thanks for the advice, but I've already been fighting the cagers for years on my motorcycle. So I know a little something about constantly watching your back and always being prepared for the unexpected.

mconlonx

I think motorcyclists are among the more aware cyclists on the road. Already expecting cars to be out to kill us; already developed scanning and avoidance skills. Only disadvantage with cycling is not having that instant power to get out of a sticky situation at the twist of the throttle.

Nothing to back this up save a hunch, but I bet hockey players also are among the more safe, aware riders.

Ancient Mariner

And in the absence of overwhelming evidence in support of either side of the argument, isn't that what we all have to rely on, i.e. a hunch?

BTW, on a recent ride, I was hit on the head with a golf ball. That's one of the accepted perils of living on/near golf courses. It was fortuitous for the golfer because the ball bounced back onto the golf course and stayed in play. Although I was wearing a helmet, I don't believe I would have been injured if my head was unprotected. This does have me somewhat concerned about riding near bowling alleys. Just a thought.

folder fanatic

Hmmmm, here is some interesting food for thought for the most serious Living Car Free practicer:

"......In the United States the notion that bike helmets promote health and safety by preventing head injuries is taken as pretty near God’s truth. Un-helmeted cyclists are regarded as irresponsible, like people who smoke. Cities are aggressive in helmet promotion........But many European health experts have taken a very different view: Yes, there are studies that show that if you fall off a bicycle at a certain speed and hit your head, a helmet can reduce your risk of serious head injury. But such falls off bikes are rare — exceedingly so in mature urban cycling systems........On the other hand, many researchers say, if you force or pressure people to wear helmets, you discourage them from riding bicycles. That means more obesity, heart disease and diabetes. And — Catch-22 — a result is fewer ordinary cyclists on the road, which makes it harder to develop a safe bicycling network. The safest biking cities are places like Amsterdam and Copenhagen, where middle-aged commuters are mainstay riders and the fraction of adults in helmets is minuscule....."
-https://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/30/su...pagewanted=all

An nice description of dammed if you do, dammed if you don't sort of quandary. Personally, I don't see much value in helmet protection. Some swear by it, others like me don't see much point. I see more tangible value in protected areas (like separated bike paths parallel to the main thoroughfares), rather than brain buckets. Or other protective clothing like knee pads. I have done it all and seen what really works for most.

folder fanatic

One more observation I would like to share with all of you. If I felt the need to use a helmet, I would immediately fold up or collapse the bike I am using (I use folding or fold-up bikes exclusively) and take alternative transportation (private cars, taxis, buses, trains, or even walk). Thereby simply avoid those generally unsafe too fast moving narrow in width streets as I am not cocooned within the safety of a auto while actually on the bike. Helmets don't automatically make bike riding in that sort of environment really safe. Separation does as the more enlightened Europeans know.

Jared.

The red mark on my forehead is where my helmet saved me from what would have been a bad head injury (considering the fall still knocked me out).

I've also been struck by cars twice. I would never ride without a helmet.

Newspaperguy

I started wearing a helmet a couple of years before British Columbia's helmet law was introduced. My reason for using a helmet was because someone I knew had been in a serious bicycling accident in another city. He had memory loss as a result and it took several years for him to fully recover. Even so, I don't know if there are still some lingering aftereffects.

For myself, as soon as I used a helmet, I noticed I got a lot better treatment on the roads. And I notice the cyclists who complain about inconsiderate motorists around here are often the ones who also refuse to wear helmets.

wolfchild

I choose to wear a helmet.. Would a helmet save my life if I crashed ??..I have no idea. Does wearing seatbelts save lives in a car crash ??.. Not 100% guaranteed. If I drive a car I wear seatbelts. if I ride a bike I wear a helmet. I just do what I feel is right.

frantik

I am thankful that in California people over the age of 18 have the choice to wear a helmet or not.

by the way, helmet threads never go well on this site...

Artkansas 

Well, before this thread gets wrapped into the major ones in A&S I'll put in one thing. An acquaintance is in a coma after a bicycle/car collision earlier in this month. She was an experienced rider and wearing her helmet. Her helmet is fine. A helmet may save you from some accidents, but not all.

And yes, wearing a helmet tends to put off casual riders, making them less likely to use a bicycle for transportation. Helmets are uncomfortable and no one really likes to deal with the fact that they may have an accident. It's the same reason that car makers put air bags and seatbelts in cars instead of doing the sensible thing and putting in roll cage and 5 point safety harnesses in cars. Airbags are a terrible way to make cars safer and much less effective than roll cages and 5 point safety harnesses, but less intimidating to the casual driver.

skye

That's terrific, but that's not what Road 1 teaches. I've taken both Road 1 and MSF's course. They're different, and each is worth taking on their own merits.