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The helmet thread

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The helmet thread

Old 03-25-13, 12:08 PM
  #4901  
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Originally Posted by rekmeyata
But your example is flawed as Rydabent pointed out. Your logic is assuming that rider b has never had an accident and thus with his experience and safety record he would be safer then rider a...duh! But that still doesn't mean that tomorrow rider b goes out and has a not at fault accident that gave him severe brain damage or death due to failure to strap on a helmet. Not all accidents are the riders fault, and that's another flaw in your logic, your assuming he's never going to crash because he's never going to be at fault, you left out the other guy entirely.
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Old 03-25-13, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by ZmanKC
Your flawed again, you cannot feign being in a thinking mode when you're actually asleep.
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Old 03-25-13, 01:51 PM
  #4903  
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Originally Posted by rekmeyata
Your flawed again, you cannot feign being in a thinking mode when you're actually asleep.
"Thinking mode"? Since when is a face palm categorized as "thinking mode"?
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Old 03-25-13, 01:51 PM
  #4904  
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Originally Posted by rekmeyata
But your example is flawed as Rydabent pointed out. Your logic is assuming that rider b has never had an accident and thus with his experience and safety record he would be safer then rider a...duh! But that still doesn't mean that tomorrow rider b goes out and has a not at fault accident that gave him severe brain damage or death due to failure to strap on a helmet. Not all accidents are the riders fault, and that's another flaw in your logic, your assuming he's never going to crash because he's never going to be at fault, you left out the other guy entirely.
My logic is fine; yours is whack, yo.

I do not assume that rider B never had an accident, or that he has a flawless safety record. Riders with more experience and experience riding in different conditions are safer riders, suffering less crashes than inexperienced riders, exhibiting a lower crash rate per miles traveled than inexperienced riders.

Helmets are not proof against severe brain damage/death, so no safety nod to rider A according to your specific situation; accidents not attributable to rider fault could happen to either rider, so no difference there, either. Although I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt -- experience on a bike usually means greater situational awareness, so a more experienced rider has a better chance of avoiding a "not at fault accident."

I also am not assuming that rider B will never crash.

Are you claiming that Rider A is the safer rider?
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Old 03-25-13, 04:17 PM
  #4905  
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Snappy comeback for snotty "Where's your helmet?"

I often get snotty shouts of "Where's your helmet?"

(Not that it matters much, but it often happens when I'm pedaling my cruiser to my gramma's around the corner, wearing a straw hat and seersucker ensemble in summer, say. Or if I'm on a ride on my own and it's 90F/90deg-humidity. I do wear a helmet on group rides, fast rides, etc. But that's just me.)

Anyway, I searched but couldn't find any snappy comebacks. There have to be some.

I've used "Where's your manners?" (Since adults chiding adults in public is terrible etiquette, and which due to bad etiquette's proximity to rudeness in turn comes close to fighting words.)

I just heard about a good one on BikeSnobNYC today where a girl snottily says "Nice helmet" to a helment-less guy and the BikeSnob instructs that the correct reply in that situation is "Nice tits!"

...Winner so far, but limited opportunity.

--JP
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Old 03-25-13, 04:37 PM
  #4906  
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Originally Posted by JeffOYB
I've used "Where's your manners?" (Since adults chiding adults in public is terrible etiquette, and which due to bad etiquette's proximity to rudeness in turn comes close to fighting words.)
Try this response to snotty "Where's your helmet" jerks:
"You're wearing it, you M-Fing thief!
And now you have the nerve to mock me while you're wearing MY helmet.
Give me my helmet back right now, or I'm going to knock your head off while you're wearing MY helmet"
Better yet, if you follow through.
That should shut the moron up for awhile, though some morons are persistent with the where is your helmet gibberish; see this thread for proof.
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Old 03-25-13, 06:02 PM
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Originally Posted by JeffOYB
BikeSnob instructs that the correct reply in that situation is "Nice tits!"

...Winner so far, but limited opportunity.
I would argue that it works fine, all the time...

Look them straight in the eye and say, "Nothing left up there, nothing worth protecting, nothing to lose. Wanna race?"
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Old 03-25-13, 08:14 PM
  #4908  
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I like

I have never EVER asked anyone where their helmet is. But after your last post I may start. If that person attempts to attack me as you suggest, he will end up sorry. He would not be smart on two accounts. First it would be assualt which is illegal, and second, he would not know what I did in the military which gets us back to his being sorry.
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Old 03-26-13, 01:28 PM
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Thank god for helmets

Crashed over the weekend. I was going down on Metcalf Rd. and after the 4th turn, I knew I was going to fast so I slowed down a lot on the entry of the 5th turn to make a safe turn since I couldn't tell what was behind it. Then ways away was another blind turn so I was clinching on both brakes to make sure that I'm at a safe speed... then it happened unexpectedly. My rear wheel locked up and I slid on my left side. Skidded for about 20 feet before I hit the mountain wall with my shoulder before I put a dent on my helmet after hitting a boulder on the wall. After inspecting my bike and realized that blood was gushing from my left hand, I couldn't figure out how the wheels locked on a straight away. It's a good thing there was a good samaritan who helped me bundled up my open wounds. Then I went to where the skid marked started. Then there it was. A long welt on the road - an elevated crack just like a welt mark on a skin - 2 feet from the skid mark. I may have clinched my brakes without me realizing it after the impact.

I'm all bandaged up on my upper left thigh, arms and knuckles, I have a bruised right shoulder and no concussion, I was conscious after impact, and thank you for my helmet or I would either been a vegetable right now, or not even here to post this.

Surprisingly, the bike really is okay. I couldn't believe it took the impact. The only scratches are very minor on the left brakes and hardly noticeable, and the bar end cap and tape. I am going to have Trek inspect it next week when I'm a bit better. W

When I'm 100% I will go back up there and really go down even slower and make a stop at the area where I hit my head and put a rosary. That could have been my death spot...
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Old 03-26-13, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by mconlonx
Who is the safer rider?

Rider A) Wears a helmet. New hybrid, new rider. Casual rider, rides on sunny days, commuted to the office once, does some short shopping trips on the bike.

Rider B) Does not wear a helmet, rides a 20 year old road bike, been riding for more than three decades, commutes, tours, rides in all weather and conditions.
Here's another way of thinking about it:

Who's the safer rider?

Rider A) Wears a helmet. New hybrid, new rider. Casual rider, rides on sunny days, commuted to the office once, does some short shopping trips on the bike.

Rider B) Does not wear a helmet. New hybrid, new rider. Casual rider, rides on sunny days, commuted to the office once, does some short shopping trips on the bike.

No one who cares about a reasonable standard of evidence would argue that they can choose betwen Rider A and Rider B on the basis of safety.
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Old 03-26-13, 01:40 PM
  #4911  
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I prefer to thank the manufacturer
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Old 03-26-13, 01:44 PM
  #4912  
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Originally Posted by pdedes
I prefer to thank the manufacturer
I think that's what the rosary was for.

Oh wait... you mean the HELMET's manufacturer!

In all seriousness... glad you're (mostly) ok and will be riding again!!!
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Old 03-26-13, 01:58 PM
  #4913  
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Thanks for sharing. I know there are many who don't believe helmets have much value, but your story along with personal experiences reaffirm my belief that though they aren't perfect, they do offer a certain amount of insurance.
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Old 03-26-13, 02:03 PM
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thanks for sharing
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Old 03-26-13, 06:20 PM
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Originally Posted by gundom66
I would either been a vegetable right now, or not even here to post this. ...That could have been my death spot...
Doubtful. More likely scenario based on the rest if your injuries is that you'd have a bump on your head, scalp laceration, and perhaps a light to moderate concussion. Anything more than that is unfounded melodrama.

On my end, it's worth wearing a helmet to avoid the much less serious injuries I just described.

Last edited by mconlonx; 03-26-13 at 06:23 PM.
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Old 03-26-13, 07:07 PM
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Originally Posted by rydabent
I like

I have never EVER asked anyone where their helmet is. But after your last post I may start. If that person attempts to attack me as you suggest, he will end up sorry. He would not be smart on two accounts. First it would be assualt which is illegal, and second, he would not know what I did in the military which gets us back to his being sorry.
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Old 03-26-13, 07:13 PM
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Originally Posted by gundom66
thank you for my helmet or I would either been a vegetable right now, or not even here to post this.
Maybe. Or maybe, as mconlox notes, not. Without the ability (not to mention willingness) to recreate the incident sans helmet, you're really just guessing either way. It does seem rather melodramatic, though. It's kind of like noting an injury to your hand and then claiming that if you hadn't been wearing gloves, your hand would have been torn off: possible, but based on statistics, not really very likely.
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Old 03-26-13, 07:48 PM
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What if rider A and B are one of the same, joined at the shoulders at birth but having two heads. Rider head A wears a helmet but rider head B does not, who survives in a crash resulting in both heads hitting the pavement at the same velocity?
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Old 03-26-13, 07:51 PM
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Originally Posted by curbtender
I've got a choice to wear a tight short brim Cinelli hat or my helmet. I'm riding through a congested city area then out to some nice country roads. I like the hat and the helmet doesn't hinder my riding. I'm one who's benefited from a helmet, backpack, long pants accident in a comute situation. Sometimes I'm more worried about losing skin then breaking a skull.
Thank you. I am 67 and have been riding a bike since I was 6. When people ask, "Why don't you wear a helmet?" I always (ALWAYS!!!) respond with, "I am more worried about losing skin."

Having said that, maybe it is just my thick Irish skull that has prevented me from serious head injuries. I have bounced it off the pavement a couple times. I've also picked a lot of gravel out of arms, legs and other parts from spills. I also have some non-bike related skin grafts and I can attest that they are no fun. I still do not wear a helmet, nor knee or elbow pads (is that next?) I ride over 2000 mile a year.
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Old 03-26-13, 08:15 PM
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Originally Posted by JoshSlocum
Thank you. I am 67 and have been riding a bike since I was 6. When people ask, "Why don't you wear a helmet?" I always (ALWAYS!!!) respond with, "I am more worried about losing skin."

Having said that, maybe it is just my thick Irish skull that has prevented me from serious head injuries. I have bounced it off the pavement a couple times. I've also picked a lot of gravel out of arms, legs and other parts from spills. I also have some non-bike related skin grafts and I can attest that they are no fun. I still do not wear a helmet, nor knee or elbow pads (is that next?) I ride over 2000 mile a year.
Forgot to add: if a helmet makes you feel safer, more hip, or for whatever reason, then wear one. Just don't join the (industry lobby) effort to force me to wear one.
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Old 03-26-13, 08:18 PM
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Originally Posted by rekmeyata
What if rider A and B are one of the same, joined at the shoulders at birth but having two heads. Rider head A wears a helmet but rider head B does not, who survives in a crash resulting in both heads hitting the pavement at the same velocity?
It depends. Maybe both. Maybe A. Maybe B. Maybe neither. Your premise is vague at best.
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Old 03-26-13, 08:37 PM
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Originally Posted by rekmeyata
What if rider A and B are one of the same, joined at the shoulders at birth but having two heads. Rider head A wears a helmet but rider head B does not, who survives in a crash resulting in both heads hitting the pavement at the same velocity?
Both or neither, depending on the crash circumstances. Maybe just one, but it could as easily be the helmeted twin as the unhelmeted one.
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Old 03-26-13, 08:44 PM
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Originally Posted by RazrSkutr
Here's another way of thinking about it:

Who's the safer rider?

Rider A) Wears a helmet. New hybrid, new rider. Casual rider, rides on sunny days, commuted to the office once, does some short shopping trips on the bike.

Rider B) Does not wear a helmet. New hybrid, new rider. Casual rider, rides on sunny days, commuted to the office once, does some short shopping trips on the bike.

No one who cares about a reasonable standard of evidence would argue that they can choose betwen Rider A and Rider B on the basis of safety.
The one who wears a helmet is marginally safer.

In the extremely unlikely event of a crash involving a strike to to the head which might result in a less than serious head injury, I'd expect the helmeted rider to sustain less injury.

Since helmets have minimal bearing on safe cycling, the margin is slim, but the helmeted rider gets the "safer rider" nod, all other things being equal.
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Old 03-27-13, 08:15 AM
  #4924  
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Originally Posted by JoshSlocum
Forgot to add: if a helmet makes you feel safer, more hip, or for whatever reason, then wear one. Just don't join the (industry lobby) effort to force me to wear one.
I have yet to see anyone post in here in favor of mandatory helmet laws. MHLs were mentioned recently, but it's quite a unanimous opinion that they are championed and put into effect by non-cyclists.
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Old 03-27-13, 01:36 PM
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Originally Posted by MMACH 5
I have yet to see anyone post in here in favor of mandatory helmet laws. MHLs were mentioned recently, but it's quite a unanimous opinion that they are championed and put into effect by non-cyclists.
If cyclists were really so opposed to requiring other cyclists to wear helmets we wouldn't see so many bike clubs with rules requiring helmets on their rides. [BTW, it's not due to insurance policies - the most common carriers insuring bike clubs have no requirement for a helmet rule.]
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