1) The studies posted by Ozonation seem to be new data points and before I just believe them and think that perhaps helmets are more effective than generally recognized by bare-headers, I'd love to hear bare-headers' responses... because sometimes they are worth reading and indeed point out legitimate flaws in such studies I just don't have experience or knowledge enough to recognize.

3) If motor vehicle operators and passengers don't need mandated helmets, cyclists certainly don't.

It's a bit weak to use anecdote to support a position when the anti-helmet people here keep arguing that that isn't sufficient.

So, classes don't really work in the real world. Are the "99%" better-off with a helmet or without (the class is irrelevant to that population).

The experience is required. It's not a "replacement" but it doesn't likely make cyclists safer until they get experience. That is, they may be less safe for a period. Note that I'm not saying classes aren't useful.

??? You don't seem to realize that that's not the purpose of a helmet.

One thing is irrefutable: the class provides nothing to the 99% of people who don't choose to take it!

You implied it. And, later, you said that experience could be more important.

So, your advice is to cherry pick the LAB instruction?

Wut?

Ignoring you from here on out because you lack relevant personal experience.

:rolleyes:
You are ignoring what your "experience" is saying. That's worse than relying on anecdotes. You, like others, only see things that match your preconceived opinions (which you think are facts).

If 99% of people decline taking a free class, that class isn't "effective" practically. Unless you propose making the class mandatory.

You have more patience for "dueling studies" than I do. I still maintain that the various studies can be used to "prove" whatever point we'd like them to. I'll trust my personal experiences and observations on the matter - and freely acknowledge that those personal experiences and observations are of no consequence to anyone but me.

So, for those who didn't get the clue.

The one on the right is clearly a bicycle helmet.
The one on the left is an *AUTOMOBILE* helmet.

-mr. bill

What conclusion is to supposed be drawn from your "clues"?

I think he is saying he drives with a helmet.

...I know this may be hard for the no helment guys to believe, but they're mandatory in sanctioned racing.http://www.runemasterstudios.com/gra...es/shifter.gif

And if you thought bike racing was an obscure sport in the US...

So what?

Don't forget the Nomex, 5-point harness, roll cage, fire suppression system, fuel cell, etc...

Well, gosh, with all of those safety features already built into the cars it's hard to understand why anyone would need a helmet too.:innocent:

Note both the air bag and fire suppression system on this gravel racer...
 

http://dirtragmag.com/userfiles/dk200bike-5.jpg

.....both of which are pretty much state of the art.

...........wut ?

A good question comes to mind from the latest posts. If sactioned racing, most club rides, and rallies require the use of helmets, doesnt that suggest that the use is helmets is a good idea?

Suggests that helmets may be a good idea for competition, and crowded group rides where the incidence of crashes is higher than in other types of riding. Note that it only suggests, not demonstrates nor proves. Suggests nothing for other types of riding.

+1

It means nothing at all, except that those who make the rules feel that there's enough risk to justify requiring helmets for competitive sports. Says nothing at all about non competitive biyling.

Race car drivers wear helmets, fireproof (resistant) suits, and cross shoulder harnesses. Their cars have roll bars. Does that mean that the same precautions makes sense to drive to Grandma's?

.
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Race helmets, even open ones like the one pictured above, would likely make roads less safe if they were mandatory for entire population. They make checking blind spots more difficult. The general public has a tough enough time with that already.

Motoring helmets for all is really just about as silly as cycling helmets for all.

Weeelllll actually to some degree improvements in car design borrowed from race car technology would work better than current technology used in private cars. Yes, a partial roll cage could be put into cars and concealed within the cars body to prevent intrusion better than they do today. And yes, cross shoulder straps do work far better than airbags and could be easily modified from the racing industry to work in a private car and would be far less expensive than air bags...the private industry does this for child safety seats!!! And technology exists that a car could have on board fire extinguishers that would automatically work just like in race cars in the event of fire and put out most if not all fires that could occur in the event of a crash or even a mechanical malfunction.

So perhaps we don't have to wear helmets or wear a fire suit in a car, but 4 point racing type of harness is entirely possible at a massive savings of not haviing to install air bags; however the cost savings of not installing air bags would be offset by the cost of a auto fire suppression system, but you would gain an important safety element now missing in cars.

How about, just only giving people who can actually drive a licence to drive... :eek: I wonder how many lives that could save...?

There are millions of things we all could do every day that would improve safety, or reduce injury or illness to a degree.

The question is where and how to draw the line.

I'm sure that while you wear a helmet, you don't practice the highest standards of safety or risk/injury/illness reduction in every facet of your daily life. Like me, you pick and choose.

Whether it's bicycling or any other facet of our daily lives, each of us is free to draw the line where we see fit. The alternative is to have a surrogate parent do that for us.

I have a plain Bell helmet that I spent about $60 on. If I get one that retails for over $200 (like a fancy giro one, but not the tri helmets), will that make me faster? Does the price in helmets make them more aero or do they just make it lighter and more breathable? I would upgrade if I found one discounted on Nashbar if it would make me faster, as it's way cheaper than buying a wheelset. By faster, I mean making my average speed 17.5mph instead of 17mph.

...you need to look at bib shorts. Bib cycling shorts make everyone faster.