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The helmet thread

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The helmet thread

Old 12-26-11, 02:38 PM
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Originally Posted by rydabent
Gee---------there for 3 or 4 days there were no posts to this thread. I kinda hoped it had died out. But of course the anti helmet trolls couldnt let that happen.

BTW trolls------you are still peeing into the wind. Im still wearing my helmet!!!! Apparently I value my brain more than you do yours. But I guess that is logical.
1. Not a troll.
2. Couldn't really care what you choose to wear on your head
3. Apparently not, as has been discussed to death.
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Old 12-26-11, 05:15 PM
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I don't wear a helmet. And the video has a ton of facts to back up what he's presenting. If you want to wear one then fine, but you really don't need it. How many times have people been killed and the report said that had they been wearing a helmet, they might have survived? And how many times have people been killed that, were wearing a helmet? In most cases people are killed by motorist, in which case a helmet wouldn't have helped.
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Old 12-26-11, 05:18 PM
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Originally Posted by rydabent
Gee---------there for 3 or 4 days there were no posts to this thread. I kinda hoped it had died out. But of course the anti helmet trolls couldnt let that happen.

BTW trolls------you are still peeing into the wind. Im still wearing my helmet!!!! Apparently I value my brain more than you do yours. But I guess that is logical.
Couldn't you for once try to be a little civilized, please?

If you wish to know (and I doubt that), Drummerboy started a thread, posting this link https://momentumplanet.com/videos/mik...r-bike-helmets - and that thread was fused with this one.

If these threads, and the arguments given by those whom you so sweetly label "trolls", are so unbearable to you, I think you might benefit from staying away from them. As might the threads.
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Old 12-26-11, 05:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Drummerboy1975
I don't wear a helmet. And the video has a ton of facts to back up what he's presenting. If you want to wear one then fine, but you really don't need it. How many times have people been killed and the report said that had they been wearing a helmet, they might have survived? And how many times have people been killed that, were wearing a helmet? In most cases people are killed by motorist, in which case a helmet wouldn't have helped.
If every accident was a case of all-or-nothing, I'd agree. I do think, though, that the Swedish paper I quoted some time ago, indicated that there is some well-documented benefit to wearing helmets. But, I also agree that it's marginal - and the signal that helmet bearing/-laws send may actually be outweighing the benefits, as they will make biking appear dangerous, thereby decreasing the "safety in numbers".

Of course, the very fact that very few cyclists are killed in The Netherlands and Denmark, where very few wear helmets, clearly indicate in itself that helmets are in no way a key factor in safety.
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Old 12-26-11, 06:39 PM
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Helmets have saved my head from impacts a few times. Life threatening? No, but who knows if my head smacked the pavement without it? Doesn't take much to start a hemmorage and internal bleeding. At the very least, avoiding road rash on my scalp is worth a few dollars.

However, I think the video is great because it is right on about the culture of fear and I think he raises excellent arguments.
Not just about helmets, because that is just a symptom of a bigger problem- living and being sheep to fear mongering.

Not just helmets, but in general, great thought provoking video.

I forgot this was in the "Love to be outraged and victimized forum". That's the price I pay for scanning "new posts" too quickly.
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Old 12-26-11, 06:39 PM
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Originally Posted by hagen2456
If every accident was a case of all-or-nothing, I'd agree. I do think, though, that the Swedish paper I quoted some time ago, indicated that there is some well-documented benefit to wearing helmets. But, I also agree that it's marginal - and the signal that helmet bearing/-laws send may actually be outweighing the benefits, as they will make biking appear dangerous, thereby decreasing the "safety in numbers".

Of course, the very fact that very few cyclists are killed in The Netherlands and Denmark, where very few wear helmets, clearly indicate in itself that helmets are in no way a key factor in safety.

Well said.
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Old 12-26-11, 07:11 PM
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Originally Posted by cruiserhead
... Doesn't take much to start a hemmorage and internal bleeding...
How long would Ho*o sapiens exist if they couldn't withstand the impact forces from a simple fall?

I think the fact that we made it so far without such protection from the minor injuries that can result from simple falls speaks for itself.
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Old 12-26-11, 07:39 PM
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Originally Posted by closetbiker
How long would Ho*o sapiens exist if they couldn't withstand the impact forces from a simple fall?

I think the fact that we made it so far without such protection from the minor injuries that can result from simple falls speaks for itself.
Yeah I agree.
When you're going 20-30mph and slap on tarmac or a rocky trail, I like the helmet to protect the noggin.
I've hit a few times and really rung my bell. I'm glad I had the helmet on.

To be clear, since the "fear & anger forumites" only see a "for or against", I am neither. I like to wear a helmet but don't care what others do and think people should have the freedom to choose.

More legislation is not what this country needs. What this country needs is more understanding and less fear.
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Old 12-26-11, 07:39 PM
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Originally Posted by closetbiker
How long would Ho*o sapiens exist if they couldn't withstand the impact forces from a simple fall?

I think the fact that we made it so far without such protection from the minor injuries that can result from simple falls speaks for itself.
A quite valid point, I believe. In another thread in A&S we discussed the relation of speed to the severity of crashes between cars and bikes, propos links to "twenty is plenty" campaigns. It seems that we're "build" to generally withstand falling/hitting our heads at up 'till 20 mph, which is just about the maximum speed a fit young man can run. Above that speed, injury rates and fatality increases exponentially.
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Old 12-26-11, 08:10 PM
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Originally Posted by cruiserhead
Doesn't take much to start a hemmorage and internal bleeding.
Part of the problem is that so many people believe that.
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Old 12-26-11, 08:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Six jours
Part of the problem is that so many people believe that.
Part of the problem is that truth is taken out of context or so overblown that it just causes argument where there should be none.

A customer fell while test riding a bicycle, almost at a standstill and hit his head. He's got brain damage.
Is that a freak occurance? Yes.
Do I bring it up because I am "anti-no helmet" ?(whatever the f that is) No.

My racing friends have had concussions and medical issues rising from head injuries with a helmet including temporary blindness, partial paralysis (permanent), and medical complications.
Do I bring this up because I think helmets are useless? No.

These are not even widespread "facts". They are from personal experience.
Yet, I still believe no helmets are safe and up to people to choose.

My personal experience is to almost always wear a helmet.
But, I don't care if someone doesn't and it doesn't make them "less safe" because they don't.
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Old 12-27-11, 09:16 AM
  #1012  
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What about the survey conducted about 3 years ago that showed that the higher the IQ the more likely the person was to wear a helmet????
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Old 12-27-11, 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by cruiserhead
Part of the problem is that truth is taken out of context or so overblown that it just causes argument where there should be none...
sort of like when people say things like this...

Originally Posted by cruiserhead
... When you're going 20-30mph and slap on tarmac or a rocky trail, I like the helmet to protect the noggin.
??


just so you have a little more understanding, a helmet is made to absorb an impact force up to a maximum of 12 mph and at 20 to 30 mph, you shouldn't expect too much protection, but hey, humans often feel a need to have control of situations, even if that "control" is an illusion, and not real. Helmets fit the bill, so I understand why some people feel they're needed (even in situations that are beyond their capabilities)
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Old 12-27-11, 10:06 AM
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I think helmets make you feel safer than what you actually are. People rode for decades with out them, up into the ninties for the pros and even sooner for non-competative folks.
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Old 12-27-11, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by rydabent
What about the survey conducted about 3 years ago that showed that the higher the IQ the more likely the person was to wear a helmet????
mine is 142, what's your's?
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Old 12-27-11, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by closetbiker
sort of like when people say things like this...

??


just so you have a little more understanding, a helmet is made to absorb an impact force up to a maximum of 12 mph and at 20 to 30 mph, you shouldn't expect too much protection, but hey, humans often feel a need to have control of situations, even if that "control" is an illusion, and not real. Helmets fit the bill, so I understand why some people feel they're needed (even in situations that are beyond their capabilities)
Since you fail at reading,
Originally Posted by cruiserhead
Helmets have saved my head from impacts a few times. Life threatening? No, but who knows if my head smacked the pavement without it? Doesn't take much to start a hemmorage and internal bleeding. At the very least, avoiding road rash on my scalp is worth a few dollars.

However, I think the video is great because it is right on about the culture of fear and I think he raises excellent arguments.
Not just about helmets, because that is just a symptom of a bigger problem- living and being sheep to fear mongering.

Not just helmets, but in general, great thought provoking video.

I forgot this was in the "Love to be outraged and victimized forum". That's the price I pay for scanning "new posts" too quickly.

Things will go in circles because, as I said before, you quote out of context and are being a drama queen.
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Old 12-27-11, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by cruiserhead
Since you fail at reading,

Things will go in circles because, as I said before, you quote out of context and are being a drama queen.
How do I fail at reading, how is what I wrote out of context, and how am I being a drama queen, when you write that by wearing a helmet in situations that are beyond its' protective abilities, your noggin will be protected?

(and do you really think calling people names helps to understand the point, or does it just alienate by denigration?)

Last edited by closetbiker; 12-27-11 at 12:16 PM.
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Old 12-28-11, 12:35 AM
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Originally Posted by rydabent
What about the survey conducted about 3 years ago that showed that the higher the IQ the more likely the person was to wear a helmet????
Correllation. Now, as for the causation...
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Old 12-28-11, 05:59 AM
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Originally Posted by rydabent
What about the survey conducted about 3 years ago that showed that the higher the IQ the more likely the person was to wear a helmet????
And cutlass-wielding pirates reduce global warming, since the world's temperature has risen while piracy has dropped.
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Old 12-28-11, 06:52 AM
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Originally Posted by rydabent
What about the survey conducted about 3 years ago that showed that the higher the IQ the more likely the person was to wear a helmet????
My good friend's late dad (RIP Moe) once said, "That mconlonx kid is pretty smart, but he don't have a lick of common sense."

That could very well apply to others...
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Old 12-28-11, 06:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Drummerboy1975
I think helmets make you feel safer than what you actually are. People rode for decades with out them, up into the ninties for the pros and even sooner for non-competative folks.
Need historical numbers to back that up, because...

I think seatbelts and airbags make you feel safer than you actually are. People drove for decades without them...

Football might be a great metaphor, though.
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Old 12-28-11, 07:33 AM
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chip

I ususally dont mention it, but mine is about the same.
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Old 12-28-11, 09:04 AM
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Originally Posted by mconlonx
Need historical numbers to back that up, because...

I think seatbelts and airbags make you feel safer than you actually are. People drove for decades without them...

Football might be a great metaphor, though.
So your comparing a car wreck to a bicycle accident?

Thats like comparing an airplane to a kite.

The severity of a car wreck is much greater than that of a bicycle accident. And when you factor in a vehicle into a bicycle
accident, which is usually when bicyclist are killed, having on a helmet wouldn't have mattered.
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Old 12-28-11, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Drummerboy1975
So your comparing a car wreck to a bicycle accident?

Thats like comparing an airplane to a kite.

The severity of a car wreck is much greater than that of a bicycle accident. And when you factor in a vehicle into a bicycle
accident, which is usually when bicyclist are killed, having on a helmet wouldn't have mattered.
Not at all, just comparing your reasoning with another historical similarity. There are speeds you can reach in an automobile and specific situations where the effectiveness of both seatbelts and airbags are diminished or eliminated...
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Old 12-28-11, 07:33 PM
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Originally Posted by rydabent
chip

I ususally dont mention it, but mine is about the same.
With all those IQ points available, I'd think you could spare at least one or two for spelling and punctuation.

Last edited by Six jours; 12-28-11 at 07:36 PM.
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