chipcom 

I think this thread needs to be renamed "Groundhog Day". I feel like I've been here before...forever.

I see rydabent is still struggling to reconcile his inner liberal nanny with his outer wing nut facade.

chasm54

And to think, we Europeans dare to think that Americans are insular and ignorant. How wrong can we be, eh?

Rx Rider

America is great, all we have to do to be completely right is start every sentence with the magic words "I think . . ."
you Europeans shouldn't dare to think, just do it. if things go bad, simple say " I think . . . I'm right" and you are!

Six jours

Back in my racing days I spent quite a bit of time in Europe, including living there for a couple of winter track racing seasons. And my strong impression was of a people who feel their government has a responsibility to provide all sorts of things for the citizens. I also got the impression that many if not most Europeans viewed Americans as a bit backwards; sort of John Wayne combined with a toothless hillbilly. Few came right out and said it, but I got the distinct idea that they were waiting for Americans to join civilization - which invariably entailed giving up a good bit of liberty in exchange for government-provided security.

Beyond that, one thing most of my European friends had in common when visiting me in America was a belief that all those toothless John Waynes would be running around shooting at everybody; essentially, a belief that without a strong central government, Americans were dangerously violent and out-of-control. They seemed quite surprised to find that, as long as we stayed away from the inner cities, they actually felt safer here than at home.

Frankly, I think that Hagen and Ryda can never see eye-to-eye because they come from such disparate backgrounds. The idea that Europeans can be happy with socialized government, and the idea that Americans can be happy without it, is probably foreign to both of them.

CB HI

I had to smile this week when I saw the news that Bobbies had to call in a sharp shooter to handle a mean dog.

AlexZ

If you are referring to me, I was not only born there but lived there at various unfortunate times in my life! My poor daughter and grandchildren live there now, one of those unfortunate marriage choices..... I also happen to speak, read and write 6 languages. Rather familiar with the Eastern block as well and even own property there. And by the way, served in Korea back in the 60's. So I do know what I am talking about.....Unlike most Europeans .


From my experience you are wrong most of the time! And about most things I might add.....But most of you do suffer from over inflated egos and inferior socialist education!

AlexZ

See above and by the way, in your case I wouldn't bother with the helmet ......

rydabent

chip

Inter Nanny??? You are so far wrong it is hugely laughable. I am for personal responsibility. An yes that would include wearing a helmet, and not being told by the government that I have to.

hagen2456

Except that the happiest nations on Earth all seem to be Scandinavian. That may be because they're reasonably regulated market economies with relatively small differences in income, or it may be because they're living in the least corruption-infested states. Or both.

Or as someone (an American, I believe) recently put it: "If you want to live the American dream (of social mobility), come to Scandinavia".

Ratzinger

It's true that there is very little social mobility in America. It's better here in Canada, but still not great.

AlexZ

Hmm....is that's what is behind the astronomical suicide rate?

toegnix

I was literally just in a bar this evening with some college students from Norway. They were here in California touring tech companies. They were in the bar ordering and drinking up a storm. Turns out liquor is really expensive in Norway, so relatively very cheap here. One said a typical 12oz beer is something like $20 US there. Ouch.

So, if you like social mobility, head to Scandinavia, but if you like cheap liquor, you might rethink.

rydabent

Those nanny state European countries confisticate over ONE HALF of a persons earning to "give" them their cradle to grave perks. I prefer personal responsibility in deciding to wear a helmet or not.

chasm54

That is fantastic rubbish. There are marginal tax rates over 50% but they typically apply only to very high earners. So, in the UK the top rate of tax is 50% (soon to come down to 45%) but that applies only to taxable earnings above £150k - about $220k in your money. A person earning the sterling equivalent of $250k would pay about $75k of it in income tax. No small sum, but a lot nearer a quarter than a half. And someone earning a more ordinary salary of say $50k would pay around $8k, because the first $11k is free of income tax and they wouldn't qualify for the higher rates, so would be taxed at a 20% marginal rate on the rest.

As for nanny states, there are more ways to limit people's freedoms than by raising taxes. I've spent a fair bit of time in the States, and have always been struck by what a conformist culture it has, especially outside the big cities. Much more deferential to authority, too, than is commonly the case in Europe. And to bring this back to the helmet debate, I don't wear one. This has never given rise to comment over here. But when touring in New England and upstate New York last year, I was told on three occasions in as many weeks by complete strangers that I ought to be wearing a helmet. You don't need a nanny state, you appear to be a nation of busybodies who nanny one another.

hagen2456

Suicide rate statistics are known for their lack of credibility. The more severe the tabu on suicide (typically for religious reasons), the lower the reported rate. As Scandinavia (and Europe as a whole) is rather indifferent to (organized) religion, the tabu is of course a lot weaker than in, say, the USA.

hagen2456

Heh! Norwegians do the same thing when they come to Denmark

Rx Rider

Europe's taxes maybe higher but the governments offer more than lip service. and you're so right about the conformist rule, our unwritten rules carry much more weight than the written law. example; bankers are allowed to time and time again walk away BILLIONS of our life's savings, saying a simple oops, that's okay. yet Al Gore is the evil one because he lives in a big house and made money with his silly give a hoot don't pollute movie.
BTW once again the warmest winter in north american history.

ps helmet.

chipcom 

yet here you are, nannying away.

chipcom 

We are our own worst enemy.

AlexZ

Obvious from your statement that you don't need to wear a helmet......nothing worth protecting there....

rydabent

chip

Can you read? I am totally against a nanny government, and their helmet laws.

hagen2456

Finest reasoning yet in this thread.

Six jours

Yeah, almost as good as "Darwin candidate" or maybe "Up yours".

WickedThump

U.S. taxes when all added together reach 50% for most workers. Much of it is hidden in taxes and fees that corporations pay, then pass off to the consumer.

AlexZ

Nice to see when what you said is understood as intended! :-)