Top Two Driver Complaints About Cyclists
10-03-11, 10:17 AM
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Thanks for the post, Goose70. Your points were right on the mark.
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10-03-11, 10:27 AM
#27
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Supposedly, the top 2 complaints against cyclists are red light running and riding two abreast.
I have ridden quite a few miles. I have never been admonished by a driver for either of the above.
Generally, I have had motorists make adverse comments about me being on the road on a bicycle. I have been screamed at by motorists for being in the road whilst I and they were waiting for a traffic light to change.
I believe the biggest complaint against cyclists by motorists is that the cyclist is on THEIR road.
I have ridden quite a few miles. I have never been admonished by a driver for either of the above.
Generally, I have had motorists make adverse comments about me being on the road on a bicycle. I have been screamed at by motorists for being in the road whilst I and they were waiting for a traffic light to change.
I believe the biggest complaint against cyclists by motorists is that the cyclist is on THEIR road.
10-03-11, 10:46 AM
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10-03-11, 10:48 AM
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The number two pet peeve: Cyclists who ride two or more abreast on roads where this forces passing traffic into the oncoming lane. Again, the issue I’m hearing does not concern the cyclists’ right to be on the road, but instead focuses on common courtesy (and safety) when a car is trying to pass. Drivers rightly ask, “if I’m going to take my life in my hands by passing in the oncoming lane, at least only make me do it when there is no other option.”
but, not on passing. Just because a lone cyclist looks like an easy pass, doesn't mean a cyclist should be passed in the same lane.
I’m sure many of you have heard similar concerns. I also don’t discount the fact that some drivers are just bitter, nuts and looking for a fight. But I suspect that most, like the ones with whom I’ve been talking, are perfectly rational folks who simply don’t want to be involved in a bike-car collision for a variety of excellent reasons. And the things that they are asking us to do have little, if any, negative impact on our ability to enjoy our sport, as far as I can tell.
On the other side of the coin, the most common misperception drivers seem to have about cyclists (other than that we’re either all gay or lost our diver’s license) is that riding on the bike path or road shoulder is always safest. If you only have a few seconds to talk with someone about driving near cyclists and don’t want to bore them with a long lecture about cycling (much like this post), then simply inviting them to walk on a MUP frequented by cyclists, or take a good look at the debris in the shoulder the next time they’re stopped in traffic, will make the point nicely.
10-03-11, 10:55 AM
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10-03-11, 11:10 AM
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"Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey
10-03-11, 11:16 AM
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That's the nice thing about riding in normal clothes sometimes and having mostly cheap gear other times. I don't feel bad about throwing my gear in the washer. If some stuff goes into the dryer once either it's not the end of the world.
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10-03-11, 11:22 AM
#33
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Motorists yell at cyclists, rather than at road engineers, when the lane is too narrow to pass cyclists without changing lanes. They've been doing this for decades. How's that working for them?
Since drivers need to be able to see cyclists ahead in order to slow for them in advance of changing lanes to pass, visibility is important. Cyclists riding two abreast are twice as visible as cyclists riding single file.
Since drivers need to be able to see cyclists ahead in order to slow for them in advance of changing lanes to pass, visibility is important. Cyclists riding two abreast are twice as visible as cyclists riding single file.
10-03-11, 12:13 PM
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If there is room to safely share the line if the cyclists went single file and the cyclists are just being ******s, I understand their frustration. But in most cases they're just ticked cuz they have to cross COMPLETELY into the oncoming lane, rather than just crossing it as little as possible and expecting either the cyclist or oncoming traffic to yield to their impatience because obviously their convenience trumps everyone's ROW.
Let's face it, the root cause of driver anger at cyclists or anyone else comes from the perception that we are in their way and inconveniencing them. The world revolves around ME, ME, ME and the constipation guarantees my right to not have to actually use the brake and be delayed by a couple of seconds, by gawd!
Let's face it, the root cause of driver anger at cyclists or anyone else comes from the perception that we are in their way and inconveniencing them. The world revolves around ME, ME, ME and the constipation guarantees my right to not have to actually use the brake and be delayed by a couple of seconds, by gawd!
10-03-11, 12:30 PM
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I suppose a lot of people do wash their expensive kit by hand and have to wring it out sometimes.
That's the nice thing about riding in normal clothes sometimes and having mostly cheap gear other times. I don't feel bad about throwing my gear in the washer. If some stuff goes into the dryer once either it's not the end of the world.
That's the nice thing about riding in normal clothes sometimes and having mostly cheap gear other times. I don't feel bad about throwing my gear in the washer. If some stuff goes into the dryer once either it's not the end of the world.
10-03-11, 12:31 PM
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I suppose a lot of people do wash their expensive kit by hand and have to wring it out sometimes.
That's the nice thing about riding in normal clothes sometimes and having mostly cheap gear other times. I don't feel bad about throwing my gear in the washer. If some stuff goes into the dryer once either it's not the end of the world.
That's the nice thing about riding in normal clothes sometimes and having mostly cheap gear other times. I don't feel bad about throwing my gear in the washer. If some stuff goes into the dryer once either it's not the end of the world.
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"Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey
"Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey
10-03-11, 12:33 PM
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"Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey
"Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey
10-03-11, 01:31 PM
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10-03-11, 02:17 PM
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The number two pet peeve: Cyclists who ride two or more abreast on roads where this forces passing traffic into the oncoming lane. Again, the issue I’m hearing does not concern the cyclists’ right to be on the road, but instead focuses on common courtesy (and safety) when a car is trying to pass. Drivers rightly ask, “if I’m going to take my life in my hands by passing in the oncoming lane, at least only make me do it when there is no other option.”
10-03-11, 04:36 PM
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I don't think it's even the inconvenience as much as the "what do I do?" issue when they first spot us. I know I experience this, especially before I figure out if the cyclist is riding predictably or not. I would assert that I actually speed up traffic (on average) while riding my bike. They sure as hell don't slow down.
10-03-11, 06:00 PM
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10-03-11, 06:57 PM
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Also that very reaction that was mentioned (what do I do) I hear voiced from my wife when we encounter cyclists on the road in situations where decisions have to be made (cyclist taking the lane on long mountain road... ). I simply respond... "the cyclist is a VW van, act accordingly." (in that example, slow down, wait for safe passing area, pass with care)
But all this does reflect that indeed most motorists are in a stupor... driving about in "slot car mode..." as long as the road "contains" the motorist to the proper lane and the choices aren't that difficult (red/green), most motorists stay out of trouble. Given any real decisions however, their comfort level goes off the charts and "damn cyclists" are to blame.
Now take all that above and move at a speed where those same motorists are just barely in control, and we really have a problem... or somehow convince the motorists to multitask... such as phones and driving and OMG, a cyclist... well the results may not be pretty.
10-03-11, 08:04 PM
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Given any real decisions however, their comfort level goes off the charts and "damn cyclists" are to blame.
10-03-11, 08:32 PM
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Gotta agree... Especially after watching all the motorists shaken out of their comfort zone a few weeks back in our wide area 12 hour blackout... simple things like intersections were a joke, as motorists were waiting for someone (a traffic light) to tell them when it was safe to go.
Also that very reaction that was mentioned (what do I do) I hear voiced from my wife when we encounter cyclists on the road in situations where decisions have to be made (cyclist taking the lane on long mountain road... ). I simply respond... "the cyclist is a VW van, act accordingly." (in that example, slow down, wait for safe passing area, pass with care)
But all this does reflect that indeed most motorists are in a stupor... driving about in "slot car mode..." as long as the road "contains" the motorist to the proper lane and the choices aren't that difficult (red/green), most motorists stay out of trouble. Given any real decisions however, their comfort level goes off the charts and "damn cyclists" are to blame.
Now take all that above and move at a speed where those same motorists are just barely in control, and we really have a problem... or somehow convince the motorists to multitask... such as phones and driving and OMG, a cyclist... well the results may not be pretty.
Also that very reaction that was mentioned (what do I do) I hear voiced from my wife when we encounter cyclists on the road in situations where decisions have to be made (cyclist taking the lane on long mountain road... ). I simply respond... "the cyclist is a VW van, act accordingly." (in that example, slow down, wait for safe passing area, pass with care)
But all this does reflect that indeed most motorists are in a stupor... driving about in "slot car mode..." as long as the road "contains" the motorist to the proper lane and the choices aren't that difficult (red/green), most motorists stay out of trouble. Given any real decisions however, their comfort level goes off the charts and "damn cyclists" are to blame.
Now take all that above and move at a speed where those same motorists are just barely in control, and we really have a problem... or somehow convince the motorists to multitask... such as phones and driving and OMG, a cyclist... well the results may not be pretty.
10-03-11, 10:45 PM
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With all of the hand-wringing about car-bike conflict on here and in the press, I thought I’d toss out a few unscientific observations from talking with non-bikers lately about their pet peeves with cyclists.
Number one pet peeve: cyclists who run red lights. I think it’s a “fairness” thing as much as a safety concern. What I’m hearing is that “we’ll tolerate the minor inconveniences you may cause us while you’re on the roads, but you need to play by the same rules as us.”
The number two pet peeve: Cyclists who ride two or more abreast on roads where this forces passing traffic into the oncoming lane. Again, the issue I’m hearing does not concern the cyclists’ right to be on the road, but instead focuses on common courtesy (and safety) when a car is trying to pass. Drivers rightly ask, “if I’m going to take my life in my hands by passing in the oncoming lane, at least only make me do it when there is no other option.”
I’m sure many of you have heard similar concerns. I also don’t discount the fact that some drivers are just bitter, nuts and looking for a fight. But I suspect that most, like the ones with whom I’ve been talking, are perfectly rationale folks who simply don’t want to be involved in a bike-car collision for a variety of excellent reasons. And the things that they are asking us to do have little, if any, negative impact on our ability to enjoy our sport, as far as I can tell.
On the other side of the coin, the most common misperception drivers seem to have about cyclists (other than that we’re either all gay or lost our diver’s license) is that riding on the bike path or road shoulder is always safest. If you only have a few seconds to talk with someone about driving near cyclists and don’t want to bore them with a long lecture about cycling (much like this post), then simply inviting them to walk on a MUP frequented by cyclists, or take a good look at the debris in the shoulder the next time they’re stopped in traffic, will make the point nicely.
Anyhow, those are my Monday morning observation on driver-cyclist diplomacy, FWIW. The suggestions strike me as a reasonable alternative to being handcuffed by a convenience store security guard.
Number one pet peeve: cyclists who run red lights. I think it’s a “fairness” thing as much as a safety concern. What I’m hearing is that “we’ll tolerate the minor inconveniences you may cause us while you’re on the roads, but you need to play by the same rules as us.”
The number two pet peeve: Cyclists who ride two or more abreast on roads where this forces passing traffic into the oncoming lane. Again, the issue I’m hearing does not concern the cyclists’ right to be on the road, but instead focuses on common courtesy (and safety) when a car is trying to pass. Drivers rightly ask, “if I’m going to take my life in my hands by passing in the oncoming lane, at least only make me do it when there is no other option.”
I’m sure many of you have heard similar concerns. I also don’t discount the fact that some drivers are just bitter, nuts and looking for a fight. But I suspect that most, like the ones with whom I’ve been talking, are perfectly rationale folks who simply don’t want to be involved in a bike-car collision for a variety of excellent reasons. And the things that they are asking us to do have little, if any, negative impact on our ability to enjoy our sport, as far as I can tell.
On the other side of the coin, the most common misperception drivers seem to have about cyclists (other than that we’re either all gay or lost our diver’s license) is that riding on the bike path or road shoulder is always safest. If you only have a few seconds to talk with someone about driving near cyclists and don’t want to bore them with a long lecture about cycling (much like this post), then simply inviting them to walk on a MUP frequented by cyclists, or take a good look at the debris in the shoulder the next time they’re stopped in traffic, will make the point nicely.
Anyhow, those are my Monday morning observation on driver-cyclist diplomacy, FWIW. The suggestions strike me as a reasonable alternative to being handcuffed by a convenience store security guard.
In that situation how would you rather they be riding single file and taking the lane. And as such being stretched out a couple a hundred yards or have them riding two abreast taking up half of that space? Also if it's unsafe to pass cyclists riding two abreast in that situation it would probably be unsafe to pass a car in a similar situation. So the safest thing for them to do is to wait until it is safe to pass.
And it isn't like a person riding a bicycle can "force" anyone to do anything let alone pass them when it is unsafe to do so. If motorists pass cyclists in an unsafe manner it's because they decided that that is what they want to do instead of waiting until it is safe to pass the cyclist(s) in question.
A big part of the problem is that "everyone and their brother is in a hurry to get nowhere fast" these days. To that end how many of us have had motorists pass us and "race" us to stop signs or red lights? What is the point of motorists racing us to stop signs or red lights? And why can't motorists wait until it is actually safe pass us? Why do they have to claim that we "forced" them to pass us in an unsafe manner?
10-03-11, 11:09 PM
#47
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10-03-11, 11:20 PM
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I mean they want to get around us as fast as possible, so by riding two abreast cyclists are actually doing motorists a favor by taking up less space on the road vs. riding single file.
10-03-11, 11:30 PM
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In my experience, there is no rhyme or reason to drivers that holler at me. The other night a car passed going in the other direction, and yelled at me, a pasty-white guy, "Hey ******! Get off that bike!" Twice recently cars passed me on four-lane bridges where they had to change lanes to go around me. In both cases there was no other traffic, just me and the single car, and in both cases someone in the car yelled at me. Because of the inconvenience of having to change lanes into a lane with absolutely no traffic. The second time it happened, it was a taxicab and it was (apparently) the paying passenger that felt compelled to roll down the window and yell at me: "Sidewalks! Every hear of them?!?" Yeah. Whatever.
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10-03-11, 11:48 PM
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I really have to wonder if the folks saying things like "Complaints about bicyclists are really just a smoke screen. Their real anger is about occasionally being inconvenienced by bicyclists" have ever driven a car. I know I get annoyed by cyclists flaunting the law (whether I'm driving OR riding) even though I'm hardly ever "inconvenienced" by cyclists.
Frankly, if you spend enough time reading the "comments" sections associated with news stories about car/cyclist interactions, you'll note the numerous complaints about "arrogant cyclists who think they can do anything they want". I'd actually rate it at the top of Goose70s list. Disregarding it with the usual "It's always the motorist's fault" meme is a mistake.
Frankly, if you spend enough time reading the "comments" sections associated with news stories about car/cyclist interactions, you'll note the numerous complaints about "arrogant cyclists who think they can do anything they want". I'd actually rate it at the top of Goose70s list. Disregarding it with the usual "It's always the motorist's fault" meme is a mistake.