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Originally Posted by spunkyj
(Post 14471548)
Indeed you are missing something. The cyclists are not having the same speed, equalized by the lights. If it weren't for the slow cyclists moving back in front of the faster ones at the traffic lights by cutting in front of the line and jumping the lights, the faster ones would quickly put much distance and many lights in between them. It is only being held at about half speed for a considerable time before a safe opportunity arises to pass, and then finally passing only to be stopped at the next light that equalizes the speeds. My original post clearly states that at the first light where I prevented the filterer from jumping in from of me, I quickly put some distance between us and left her in the dust (exactly the first scenario you describe).
I can understand filtering to the front of a line of cyclists if you know you will be fast (I still prefer to wait my turn). But if you already know you're slower then it is simply rude and inconsiderate to do so. Or you could just track stand to time the like and go hard just as the light turns green, beating the other cyclist and motorist through the intersection (almost before they even get moving). |
Sometimes I don't wear a helment.
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Originally Posted by charbucks
(Post 14473264)
I reflexively say "Sorry!" and get on with my ride. Damn my Canadian instincts.
I wonder if I reinforced this woman's conviction that it is fully the responsibility of riders on the path travelling in a straight line to announce their presence to those standing next to it... |
Originally Posted by Doohickie
(Post 14470954)
Who's the bad cyclist here?
Just kidding! (Guy with a chicken on his head walks into a psychologist. Psychologist says can I help you. Chicken says yeah get this guy off my ass. <rim shot>) Seriously, your question sounds rhetorical to me -- the wrong-way cyclist was riding in a way so as to endanger himself and others, and you weren't. And, you didn't play chicken with him and stubbornly maintain your line. Also, there is a possibility that he may have cooled off later and considered that wrong-way riding is not such a good idea. For myself, I treat wrong-way riders as I do pedestrians and joggers, which is to watch and avoid. In my neighborhood, almost all of the wrong-way riders seem to be immigrants and laboreres that bike for transportation. They don't use mirrors and I think they want to face the on-coming traffic for perceived safety. When I visit Mexico, I notice this style of riding is widespread. |
Originally Posted by CB HI
(Post 14470122)
I do not know of a marathon that does not close down at least half the road. Lots of other events close down roads, or trails such as triathlons, parades, mountain bike races, road cycling races, charity walks/runs, etc.
... The police road and path blocks and the guard rails put up for the event. Is Burlington really that back woods? My opinion is that it is immaterial whether the road was closed, or whether the event was "properly" permitted and sanctioned. Cyclists who try to intimidate multiple pedestrians in a crowd by charging them at high speed are out of line and give cyclists a bad name. Imagine if a motorist recklessly accelerated through a group of cyclists and then argued that the cycling event did not have the proper permits and should have closed off the road. |
Originally Posted by Daves_Not_Here
(Post 14473018)
I think the reason why some are having a hard time taking your complaint seriously is that it consists of 2 simultaneous improbabilities: (1) a clueless cyclist that repeately filters past a queue of faster riders, and (2) a riding environment that prevents the easy passing of that slower rider (even though the rider somehow had the room to filter up).
I can't recall a time I had a difficult time getting past a slower rider, and I suspect others here may feel the same way. Slow cyclists are slow off the line, and I find it pretty easy to pass them in the open intersection. But, assuming the scenario and passing difficulties occurred as described, why wouldn't you just speak up. "Hey, nice day. Cool beach cruiser. Hey, I hope I don't mean to across as the ettiquette nazi, but we're having a hard time safely passing you when you keep coming up to the front. We'll have to ask you to stay at the back or we'll be forced to make comments about your butt." As for point (1) being improbable, I've only encountered such a situation once. I was annoyed. I wrote about it. It's not like this is a perpetual problem for me. Sometimes I'm even happy to stay behind slower cyclists, but after seeing this particular cyclist almost take the cyclist ahead of her down, I was eager to lose her. And as for point (2) there is a huge difference in having enough passing space when traffic is stopped versus when it is moving. In this case the "queue" of riders was only two strong and the cyclist jumping the line was brushing up next to cars to get to the front. As for passing in the open intersection, the offending cyclist was jumping the lights. I stated this clearly in my post. She had almost cleared the intersection by the time the light was green. |
Originally Posted by CB HI
(Post 14473423)
You really have that hard of a time sticking out your left hand, merging with traffic and zipping past these terribly slow cyclist, OH MY. Not that hard to do.
Or you could just track stand to time the like and go hard just as the light turns green, beating the other cyclist and motorist through the intersection (almost before they even get moving). And as for beating the cyclist across the intersection, I did clearly write that the cyclist was jumping the light--i.e. proceeding before the green. Otherwise, your suggestion is right on. |
Originally Posted by spunkyj
(Post 14473727)
CB HI, do you really just stick out your left hand and have cars yield to you so that you can merge? Please tell me your secret, as I usually have to wait some time for an opening.
And as for beating the cyclist across the intersection, I did clearly write that the cyclist was jumping the light--i.e. proceeding before the green. Otherwise, your suggestion is right on. If you do need more of a gap, there is usually one motorist who is looking at their cell phone and slow to realize the light has turned green, leaving a pretty good gap. |
Originally Posted by CB HI
(Post 14473940)
When you put your hand out, hold it facing backwards in a semi-stop type signal and be assertive in moving into the lane. I have a merge that I have to do this on during my daily commute. It is rare that a motorist refuses to let me in (most often it is a cabbie or these odd trolley buses.
If you do need more of a gap, there is usually one motorist who is looking at their cell phone and slow to realize the light has turned green, leaving a pretty good gap. |
Originally Posted by spunkyj
(Post 14474135)
CB HI, I think you are probably a bit more assertive/aggressive than I am personally comfortable with on my ride. I do have a forced merge on my commute and motorists typically do let me in there, but I find motorists less willing to make space when they see that cyclists have their own lane. Also, I will not try to merge if it depends on the motorist seeing me and having to slow down; by default I assume that drivers do not see me, and aren't paying attention. Essentially, every time we merge with car traffic we put ourselves at a bit more risk than we would otherwise. So, if I do pass a slower cyclist I'd prefer to only have to do it once.
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Originally Posted by Daves_Not_Here
(Post 14474405)
It appears that this situation was impossible for you and there is nothing that anybody can suggest that would have worked. What are you going to do if you encounter that situation again?
Just because I disagree with some suggestions offered, I'm "impossible"? Please, if you disagree with any argument I've made post a reasoned response. EDIT: as an aside, I think CB HI's note on proper signaling when merging in generally good advice, even if I don't think it would have helped in the particular situation I described. |
Originally Posted by Doohickie
(Post 14473456)
I just love Canadians. No really, I do. That reflexive politeness is something the world could use more of.
I love my adopted brethren, but it's sorta funny hanging around folks that are so damn proud of being humble (and NOT Americans). I know for a fact that they're better educated than the average US'er, so I know they see the irony, which makes it all the more funny... Ohh, and they brawl like Irishmen/Scotsman supposedly do. Don't be mistaking beavers as toothless. |
Originally Posted by Bikepacker67
(Post 14475232)
Heh.
I love my adopted brethren, but it's sorta funny hanging around folks that are so damn proud of being humble (and NOT Americans). I know for a fact that they're better educated than the average US'er, so I know they see the irony, which makes it all the more funny... Ohh, and they brawl like Irishmen/Scotsman supposedly do. Don't be mistaking beavers as toothless. I didn't know that about the education thing - do you mean that more Canadians pursue higher education, or that Canadians have a more effective public school system? P.S. I love the Okanangan... can't handle the summers though! |
Yeah, it's a little disappointing that America has infused its youth with brashness at the expense of politeness.
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...or that Canadians have a more effective public school system? P.S. I love the Okanangan... can't handle the summers though! |
Originally Posted by charbucks
(Post 14475255)
do you mean that more Canadians pursue higher education, or that Canadians have a more effective public school system?
With Canada spending less of it's GDP on overseas venues, and being able to spend more on itself, is the makings of a more effective public school system which makes for the possibility to pursue a higher education. |
Originally Posted by Daves_Not_Here
(Post 13315442)
I thought it would be educational to describe actual examples of cyclist mistakes and misbehavior that we observe. My thought is that we can learn from the mistakes of others (although perhaps not as quickly as from our own mistakes). For example, seeing a wrong-way rider T-bone a turning car made a believer out of me.
Why not describe motorist mistakes and misbehavior? Answer: we already do that here, and non-cycling motorists don't read this forum anyway. OK, I'll go first -- Saturday, October 1, riding southbound on PCH going into Newport Beach from Huntington Beach, I'm riding solo but there are about 6 of us that have coagulated into an informal group in the bike lane. Motorist passes us on our left, plenty of clearance, proceeds about 100 ft ahead, puts on her signal to turn right, pulls across the dashed line into the bike lane and slows down. However, rather than immediately turning right out of the lane, she comes to a complete stop blocking the bike lane because there's a pedestrian on the corner stepping off into the crosswalk. While we cyclists are not nearly sideswiped or brake-checked, we have to either stop or move to the left to pass. For me it's a non-event because I've already checked and moved into the empty lane to our left, but it would have been just as easy to stop. I think I said, "we're clear". However, the leader slows way down, passes within inches, shouting profanity, and flips off the driver, an older woman, really getting in her face. By that time, I'm 20 yards ahead coasting, looking back at the scene. The guy catches up back up with me fuming, and I say something like, "hey man, what's the problem, it's not like she cut us off." The G-rated summary of his response was that motorists should not be pulling into and stopping in the bike lane when there are cyclists there. -- here is street view of the lane and intersection. http://g.co/maps/37uhm I'm thinking there were 2 cyclist mistakes here: 1. Motorist had the right of way to pull into the bike lane at the dashed lines to turn right with plenty of clearance (as described in this scenario) 2. Cyclist did not make friends and influence people by cussing out a driver who was yielding to a pedestrian. mine: cylist with child in trailer runs red light. btw, thanks for the cheech and chong memory! |
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