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red light cameras = red light exception for cyclists

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red light cameras = red light exception for cyclists

Old 10-11-11, 03:47 PM
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chucky
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red light cameras = red light exception for cyclists

Anyone else view red light cameras this way?

Frankly, I think cyclists should be legally excepted from red lights because the risk of a cyclist damaging someone/something in a collision is negligible compared to a two ton automobile (or even a 400 pound motorcycle).

Now, with the red light cameras becoming so ubiquitous, it's becoming a de facto law: Cops don't set up traps at intersections with cameras, so red light running motorists automatically get mailed tickets while cyclists can run the lights without consequences (and without worrying too much about being squashed by red light jumping motorists).

The natural order has been restored just as God intended: Automobile faster than bike, camera nails automobile, bike evades camera.

Last edited by chucky; 10-11-11 at 03:51 PM.
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Old 10-11-11, 06:56 PM
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Red = Stop
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Old 10-11-11, 07:04 PM
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In Texas the city & State gov'ts got in a pissin' match over splitting the loot, so the legislature outlawed any new cameras going in. There was a mad rush to make sure all the the grandfathered camera had 25 year contracts.

I hate those things. How can a moving violation be a civil offense? Because a criminal offense requires a heavier burden of proof so there would be no revenue generated by them.
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Old 10-11-11, 07:04 PM
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Of course, with red light cameras, cross traffic expects better stop light compliance and is less likely to watch out for idiots running red lights. Cyclists are much less likely than motorists to survive being hit broadside by an SUV doing 45 in a 35 zone...
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Old 10-11-11, 07:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Pete In Az View Post
Red = Stop
This.

I'm really annoyed by how most cyclists run stop signs and red lights. It's basically created an expectation on the part of drivers that cyclists will always run them. Every time I come to a stop sign I slow down to 2-3mph to let other cars who have the right-of-way go through. But then they don't when they see me. They stop and wait and stare at me like they're expecting me to run the stop sign. So then this uncomfortable staring contest begins and eventually I just decide to go, which is confusing because then sometimes other cars show up and don't decide to yield the right-of-way to me.

Dear cyclists: if you want to be respected on the road, then you must also respect the rules of the road. Seriously.
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Old 10-11-11, 09:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Mithrandir View Post
Dear cyclists: if you want to be respected on the road, then you must also respect the rules of the road. Seriously.
Yeah and the new rule is that red lights are (practically and legally) just like unpaid parking meters:
You get a "civil citation" for doing it with a licensed vehicle and no citation at all for doing it with an unlicensed vehicle.

See, I follow the rules
...unless you think I should also pay the meter when I lock up my bike as a sign of respect?

Originally Posted by jputnam View Post
Of course, with red light cameras, cross traffic expects better stop light compliance and is less likely to watch out for idiots running red lights. Cyclists are much less likely than motorists to survive being hit broadside by an SUV doing 45 in a 35 zone...
Which is why a prudent cyclist would never cross an intersection if there were any possibility of being broadsided by an SUV going 45 mph...no matter what color the light is.

However, since SUVs are pretty big, they're not as hard to eliminate from the realm of possibilities as one might imagine. I think it's more likely that I'd be broadsided by another cyclist, but fortunately the consequences of that aren't certain death.

Last edited by chucky; 10-11-11 at 09:46 PM.
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Old 10-11-11, 09:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Mithrandir View Post

So then this uncomfortable staring contest begins.......
Not me, I see a golden opportunity when I see one, and off I go.
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Old 10-11-11, 10:43 PM
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i'd say follow the traffic rules. i have an intersection with a red light camera on my way to work and i stop. Even though its 6am and not a soul in sight. i click on the pedestrian crossing thingy.
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Old 10-11-11, 10:48 PM
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Red light cameras are not for safety, they are for revenue.
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Old 10-12-11, 12:00 AM
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Old 10-12-11, 12:27 AM
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I agree with stopping on red. BUT...if the camera takes your picture while on a bicycle and they want to bother trying to give you a ticket, how do they ID you from a red light camera pic? Trace your bicycle license plate number?
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Old 10-12-11, 12:36 AM
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What if a motorist with the right of way injures themselves trying to avoid your dumb ass?
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Old 10-12-11, 12:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Mithrandir View Post
This.

I'm really annoyed by how most cyclists run stop signs and red lights. It's basically created an expectation on the part of drivers that cyclists will always run them. Every time I come to a stop sign I slow down to 2-3mph to let other cars who have the right-of-way go through. But then they don't when they see me. They stop and wait and stare at me like they're expecting me to run the stop sign. So then this uncomfortable staring contest begins and eventually I just decide to go, which is confusing because then sometimes other cars show up and don't decide to yield the right-of-way to me.

Dear cyclists: if you want to be respected on the road, then you must also respect the rules of the road. Seriously.
I agree, I also find it amazing how many people here advocate the running of red lights and/or stop signs but then get bent out of shape when a motorist passes them too close, or cuts them off, or runs them off of the road, or throws things at them, or yells at them. Maybe if more cyclists acted as legal, and respectful road users they'd get a little more respect from motorists, LEOS, and the court system.

As another member (I can't remember who) said, "how can you expect to have society's protection if you can't abide by society's rules." Or something to that effect.
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Old 10-12-11, 01:36 AM
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Yep, no license plate required yet so there is no way to actually hunt you down with a citation by mail. I beat the cams all day long, know where they are and turn a street before them, I actually beat the traffic that has to line up & stop car by car. The intersections where the cams are, also coincide with my route where I would've turned right anyway. I actually come out ahead and if another does the same thing, wherever they turn , I go to the next or more blocks over so I get ahead of them too.
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Old 10-12-11, 07:21 AM
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Run the red lights, thin the heard.
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Old 10-12-11, 07:35 AM
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Originally Posted by chucky View Post
Yeah and the new rule is that red lights are (practically and legally) just like unpaid parking meters:
You get a "civil citation" for doing it with a licensed vehicle and no citation at all for doing it with an unlicensed vehicle.

See, I follow the rules
...unless you think I should also pay the meter when I lock up my bike as a sign of respect?
That's a cop-out and you know it. The law says that if you are riding a vehicle in the road, then you must also follow the rules of the road. It's as simple as that.
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Old 10-12-11, 08:12 AM
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IMO 5 minutes after you tell someone that the red light is optional or different for them, people will become complacent and start rolling it rather than stopping and then going, then they'll roll it faster and faster, soon won't even really look.

The rules work. Sorry if they're inconvenient for you.
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Old 10-12-11, 08:29 AM
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Originally Posted by chucky View Post
Anyone else view red light cameras this way?

Frankly, I think cyclists should be legally excepted from red lights because the risk of a cyclist damaging someone/something in a collision is negligible compared to a two ton automobile (or even a 400 pound motorcycle).

Now, with the red light cameras becoming so ubiquitous, it's becoming a de facto law: Cops don't set up traps at intersections with cameras, so red light running motorists automatically get mailed tickets while cyclists can run the lights without consequences (and without worrying too much about being squashed by red light jumping motorists).

The natural order has been restored just as God intended: Automobile faster than bike, camera nails automobile, bike evades camera.
Originally Posted by kjmillig View Post
I agree with stopping on red. BUT...if the camera takes your picture while on a bicycle and they want to bother trying to give you a ticket, how do they ID you from a red light camera pic? Trace your bicycle license plate number?
This is the answer. There is no way to identify the cyclist, so no ticket.

However I suspect that if I consistently ran a red light and the camera caught it, they'd put a live cop at the intersection and eventually I'd get caught. So, no, I don't run camera-monitored intersections. For intersections that don't have cameras, I pretty much follow Idaho law (with wide margins of safety), at least at intersections where I know I don't trip the sensor and there is no motor traffic to trigger the light for me. If there is hope of the light getting triggered, I wait.
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Old 10-12-11, 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Mithrandir View Post
This.

I'm really annoyed by how most cyclists run stop signs and red lights. It's basically created an expectation on the part of drivers that cyclists will always run them. Every time I come to a stop sign I slow down to 2-3mph to let other cars who have the right-of-way go through. But then they don't when they see me. They stop and wait and stare at me like they're expecting me to run the stop sign. So then this uncomfortable staring contest begins and eventually I just decide to go, which is confusing because then sometimes other cars show up and don't decide to yield the right-of-way to me.

Dear cyclists: if you want to be respected on the road, then you must also respect the rules of the road. Seriously.
+1000
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Old 10-12-11, 11:17 AM
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In a few states cyclists are allowed to treat a red light as a stop sign, and a stop sign as a yield sign. The dynamics of a bicycle are so different from a car. The telling is in the accident numbers in those states. Some stop lights do not sense bikes. So the cyclist is supposed to wait for a car to come? What if a car doesn't come?
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Old 10-12-11, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by kjmillig View Post
I agree with stopping on red. BUT...if the camera takes your picture while on a bicycle and they want to bother trying to give you a ticket, how do they ID you from a red light camera pic? Trace your bicycle license plate number?
These cameras are just the camel's nose under the tent...next comes the rfid chips embedded into our okoles along with scanners at every intersection and pizza joint. Be afwaid, vewy, vewy afwaid.
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Old 10-12-11, 11:27 AM
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I saw a bike hack where you put a couple neodynium magnets on your bike perpendicular to the road in order to trigger the lights.
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Old 10-12-11, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by alaskanb3arcub View Post
I saw a bike hack where you put a couple neodynium magnets on your bike perpendicular to the road in order to trigger the lights.
Who wants to put up with all those unnecessary grams when you can just blow through the light?

Not me.
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Old 10-12-11, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by chipcom View Post
These cameras are just the camel's nose under the tent...next comes the rfid chips embedded into our okoles along with scanners at every intersection and pizza joint. Be afwaid, vewy, vewy afwaid.
Or they'll just hook up the facial-recognition software to the cameras and check against driver's license photos...oh wait.
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Old 10-12-11, 11:33 AM
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If the red-light won't trip because there are no cars around, get off the bike and walk it across as a pedestrian.
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