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Educating local cyclists of their faults

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Educating local cyclists of their faults

Old 11-22-11, 11:51 AM
  #101  
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Originally Posted by orionz06 View Post
Correct, so how do you say "Hey guys, I think a few of you might really be doing something that is not good for us."
You should remove the log from your own eye before you worry about the speck in your brother's.
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Old 11-22-11, 12:11 PM
  #102  
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Originally Posted by Chris516 View Post
Good question, Because of it not being the whole group. So the answer has to be more creative.

The helmet debate notwithstanding, except if said individuals are wearing their helmets like loose-fitting baseball caps. Let said individual(s) know, you would be telling them whatever info, out of concern for them, not from the point of 'how dare you'. But from the point of 'ride safely'. If they are not receptive to the info regardless of how compassionately the info is conveyed, then don't continue trying to get the person(s) to listen.
There really is no answer that works. They need to be caught enough and fined enough for to change their life or have a car do it.


Originally Posted by chipcom View Post
You simply lead by example. If must say something, just shake your head and good-naturedly say "dude, you're gonna have a bad day someday doing that sh_t" and leave it at that. Don't come off a like an anal busy-body.
Again, this isn't me confronting people in the streets. I do however lead by example. The only real mention I will give is about lighting and only if they are riding at near dark without ****. I generally just tell them I can hardly see them, what do they think a car would do.

Originally Posted by dynodonn View Post
I sure like to say something to the last several cyclists I've encountered at night, even though they have some really nice bikes, the best of them only had the very minimal of reflective devices, and they all had no forward lighting and with one only having a rear flasher, even that was very anemic.

They seem to have the money for the bike and gear, and I guess that they probably are running dark by design, so I would consider it a waste of breath if I offered some of my older/replaced night lights to them.
I've made mention to a few of those types in the past, on bike and by car. Both instances it was incredibly hard to see them despite the amount of light I had. The result, some of them had blinkies the next day or next time I saw them.

On that note it appears that many people never take the time to see how their lighting actually looks from a car, they just buy a blinkie and think they will be fine.
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Old 11-22-11, 01:57 PM
  #103  
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Originally Posted by orionz06 View Post
Correct, so how do you say "Hey guys, I think a few of you might really be doing something that is not good for us."
If you have to ask, you probably aren't the one to deliver the message.
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Old 11-22-11, 02:24 PM
  #104  
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Originally Posted by corvuscorvax View Post
There is no percentage in giving unsolicited advice to strangers about their "faults".

Mind your own business and enjoy your ride. You'll be better off for it.
I disagree, sort of. I've found other riders rather open to comments, but not the ones wearing black at night with no lights, not salmon, not Ipod wearing weaving riders.

But the guy out with his kids, all in helmets, but all misadjusted so the helmets were all but useless for face first falls was very recptive.

Put differently people (not jsut cyclists) seem to be receptive to someone who seems to be trying to help them do what they want to do. People are not very receptive to people telling them that what they want to do is wrong.

And of course phrasiing makes a huge difference. Saying 'have you considered clipless' goes over much better than 'if yuo are at all serious you have to go clipless' . (More than once, I've gotten the responce to the first of "I plan to try it when I have the money' or somethgin simitar).
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Old 11-22-11, 02:25 PM
  #105  
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Originally Posted by Chris516 View Post
Good question, Because of it not being the whole group. So the answer has to be more creative.

The helmet debate notwithstanding, except if said individuals are wearing their helmets like loose-fitting baseball caps. Let said individual(s) know, you would be telling them whatever info, out of concern for them, not from the point of 'how dare you'. But from the point of 'ride safely'. If they are not receptive to the info regardless of how compassionately the info is conveyed, then don't continue trying to get the person(s) to listen.
Originally Posted by chipcom View Post
You simply lead by example. If must say something, just shake your head and good-naturedly say "dude, you're gonna have a bad day someday doing that sh_t" and leave it at that. Don't come off a like an anal busy-body.
Originally Posted by dynodonn View Post
I sure like to say something to the last several cyclists I've encountered at night, even though they have some really nice bikes, the best of them only had the very minimal of reflective devices, and they all had no forward lighting and with one only having a rear flasher, even that was very anemic.

They seem to have the money for the bike and gear, and I guess that they probably are running dark by design, so I would consider it a waste of breath if I offered some of my older/replaced night lights to them.
Originally Posted by Keith99 View Post
I disagree, sort of. I've found other riders rather open to comments, but not the ones wearing black at night with no lights, not salmon, not Ipod wearing weaving riders.

But the guy out with his kids, all in helmets, but all misadjusted so the helmets were all but useless for face first falls was very recptive.

Put differently people (not jsut cyclists) seem to be receptive to someone who seems to be trying to help them do what they want to do. People are not very receptive to people telling them that what they want to do is wrong.

And of course phrasiing makes a huge difference. Saying 'have you considered clipless' goes over much better than 'if yuo are at all serious you have to go clipless' . (More than once, I've gotten the responce to the first of "I plan to try it when I have the money' or somethgin simitar).
Phrasing was/is key when mentioning visibility. I have been successful in relaying that message in a few ways.
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Old 11-22-11, 03:06 PM
  #106  
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Originally Posted by brumskee View Post
A & S is a lot like watching "The View"
Originally Posted by StanSeven View Post
Yeah. It's also about people insisting they know what's best for everyone else.


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Old 11-22-11, 08:23 PM
  #107  
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Originally Posted by orionz06 View Post

I've made mention to a few of those types in the past, on bike and by car. Both instances it was incredibly hard to see them despite the amount of light I had. The result, some of them had blinkies the next day or next time I saw them.

On that note it appears that many people never take the time to see how their lighting actually looks from a car, they just buy a blinkie and think they will be fine.
The best way to really tell these no/low light cyclists is to light up their small part of their universe as we pass, and show them what it's like to have lights at night.
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Old 11-22-11, 08:29 PM
  #108  
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Originally Posted by dynodonn View Post
The best way to really tell these no/low light cyclists is to light up their small part of their universe as we pass, and show them what it's like to have lights at night.
Two weeks ago, Colin was in the news again. It began with a pass; two cyclists, a man and a woman, dressed in dark clothing, passed another cyclist - Colin - in the night. As the two unlit cyclists passed, Colin shouted some advice - "Get a light!" What happened next made the news across the country. Angered by Colinís unsolicited advice, both cyclists shouted back, telling Colin to mind his own business; the male cyclist then attempted to run Colin off the road. Colin evaded the maneuver, and continued on his way, thinking that was the end of it.

But they werenít done with Colin. As he neared his home, he noticed that the two riders had followed him. The pair approached Colin in front of his home, and continued the conversation about lights, with the woman telling Colin that she noticed he seemed to have plenty of lights, and asking if she could have one. He obliged her...and then the male cyclist attacked, grabbing Colin by the head and twisting him to the ground, kneeing Colin in the ribs. The man, riding a Trek time trial bike, and the woman, riding an Orbea road bike, then rode off, leaving Colin behind.

A week later, acting on tips received, Madison police arrested 28 year-old Dustin Dunlavy on charges of battery and disorderly conduct. Dunlavyís girlfriend, the woman who was riding with him that night, was interviewed by police but not charged. Although Dunlavy admitted to grabbing Colin by the head, he denied kicking him in the ribs. Asked why he attacked Colin, Dunlavy replied that he felt "extremely insulted" by Colinís shout to "get a light."
http://www.bicyclelaw.com/articles/a...ust-get-along1
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Old 11-22-11, 08:42 PM
  #109  
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" Two weeks ago, Colin was in the news again........"

Why I let my lights and example do my talking.
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Old 11-22-11, 09:12 PM
  #110  
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I think i will shift my marketing focus for my Krav Maga training classes to cyclists. Ya'all could use it and I could fill that slow tuesday morning slot.
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Old 11-22-11, 09:26 PM
  #111  
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Guy doesn't recognize a set up, gets his ass kicked, makes news... Genius.
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Old 11-22-11, 10:09 PM
  #112  
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Originally Posted by dynodonn View Post
The best way to really tell these no/low light cyclists is to light up their small part of their universe as we pass, and show them what it's like to have lights at night.
Most idiots who ride without lights at night, or who bust red lights (as some on this forum admit that they do ....), aren't going to change their ways because of the way they see others ride. If that were the case they wouldn't be doing it, would they? The problem isn't lack of example - things aren't quite as bad as that, not yet. Most cyclists still behave reasonably intelligently.

Sometimes an induced feeling of shame, especially if repeatedly applied over a period of time, will do the trick. Of course some cyclists are beyond even that - those are the real bozos who are the argument for fines/registration/etc etc. Time for some to look in the mirror.

On the way home from work today I passed a guy driving one of those nifty little 50+mpg vehicles, in the dark and on a busy road full of commuters. He was talking on a cell phone and his lights were out. I did my best to draw his attention but he was too deep in conversation. Same sort of idiocy. I very rarely see a cyclist riding on that road without lights, that would be near-suicidal.

Last edited by ChasH; 11-22-11 at 10:18 PM.
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Old 11-22-11, 10:43 PM
  #113  
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Originally Posted by ChasH View Post
Most idiots who ride without lights at night, or who bust red lights (as some on this forum admit that they do ....), aren't going to change their ways because of the way they see others ride.......

.....I very rarely see a cyclist riding on that road without lights, that would be near-suicidal.
Judging by the type of gear and bicycles that these cyclists riding without lights have, I'd say that they are going dark by design.

Rather than yell at them to get a light, I'll usually ride behind them temporarily to give them a small taste of what it is like to have a light before I pull around them to make a pass. Some cyclists might get the idea, some may not, but at least they all now know what it's like to have a light.
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Old 11-22-11, 11:03 PM
  #114  
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Originally Posted by orionz06 View Post
There really is no answer that works. They need to be caught enough and fined enough for to change their life or have a car do it.




Again, this isn't me confronting people in the streets. I do however lead by example. The only real mention I will give is about lighting and only if they are riding at near dark without ****. I generally just tell them I can hardly see them, what do they think a car would do.



I've made mention to a few of those types in the past, on bike and by car. Both instances it was incredibly hard to see them despite the amount of light I had. The result, some of them had blinkies the next day or next time I saw them.

On that note it appears that many people never take the time to see how their lighting actually looks from a car, they just buy a blinkie and think they will be fine.
On the lighting aspect, I've gotta agree. I've seen way too many ninja's and "semi-ninja's" on the road.

Last night as I was riding down 30th Ave. N. in St. Petersburg coming home from the VA and heading to the Monday night ride. I had two motorists thank and compliment me on the light on my helmet. It's the Light and Motion Stella 150L. It throws 150 lumens, and lights up the road.

Even with that if someone is dressed in dark clothes and has no lights and/or reflectors they're very hard to see.

Tonight as I was riding through one of the parks that I usually ride through. There was a dark(ish) baby stroller sitting by itself in the middle of the sidewalk/multi-use path. If I was like a lot of the people I see riding through the park I could have hit it. As sadly most people riding through the park do so as if they're running their own personal Tour, and/or don't have any lights on their bike.

Also knock on wood the parents had the baby out of it's stroller and was in the center of a grassy area with a large statue in the middle of it. But still they obviously didn't think about other users of the park as they left the baby stroller smack in the middle of the trail creating a navigation hazard for bladers, skateboarders, joggers, walkers and bike riders.

Would it have killed them to have moved it over into the grass after taking their baby out of it?
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Old 11-23-11, 09:29 AM
  #115  
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Originally Posted by dynodonn View Post
The best way to really tell these no/low light cyclists is to light up their small part of their universe as we pass, and show them what it's like to have lights at night.
I admire this. If they didn't realize, now they do. If we're overly concerned or too far down that slippery slope chasing bigger lumens, no harm done. Win-win.

electrik - Two weeks ago, Colin was in the news again. It began with a pass; two cyclists,
I thought the whole thing was a spoof, up until the link. Beat up for lecturing about lights, amazing.
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Old 11-23-11, 09:45 AM
  #116  
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The whole point of the article is that both sides are the same, both are road ragers.
Read the last four paragraphs

"When these powerful emotions are aroused in a road rage personality type - for example, the scofflaw or the vigilante - road rage is triggered."

"For the rest of us, the increased potential for conflict will mean that now, more than ever, we need to learn to cultivate our "emotional intelligence."

best advice in this thread:
Originally Posted by corvuscorvax
There is no percentage in giving unsolicited advice to strangers about their "faults".

Mind your own business and enjoy your ride. You'll be better off for it.
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Old 11-23-11, 10:04 AM
  #117  
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Originally Posted by corvuscorvax View Post
There is no percentage in giving unsolicited advice to strangers about their "faults".

Mind your own business and enjoy your ride. You'll be better off for it.
I agree.

The situation is a bit different with people we know. Depending on the person a bit of gentle advice at the right time can be useful.
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Old 11-23-11, 10:46 AM
  #118  
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Originally Posted by unterhausen View Post
I think the best you can do as far as education is to ride safely and legally. People will notice what you do.

I don't really want to pile on Don, but most road rage incidents are caused by people that are trying to correct the driving of others. 40 years ago was before people started acknowledging the dangers of road rage. I can come up with a fairly extensive list of things that were acceptable 40 years ago that are recognized to be problematic now.
I experienced ONE incident that could be classified as road rage before 1990. (Funny, I was on a bike, then, too.) Road rage not only didn't have a name back then, it barely EXISTED, at least where I live.

I can come up with a list, too...and your point is...? Really, that doesn't diminish what I said.

Originally Posted by cruiserhead View Post
40 years ago, there was a lot of ACCEPTABLE behavior that is UNACCEPTABLE today. The rosey glasses of history don't have a lock on "acceptable, praisworthy conduct".
Funny you quote a ****sexual writer who was imprisoned for UNACCEPTABLE behavior, which is ACCEPTABLE today.
Didn't QUOTE Wilde, per se, paraphrased him; other than that, it's what's known as unintentional irony. I QUOTED Scripture, with helps. You don't diminish what I said, either.

I'm done with this silly thread; 'BYE.
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Old 11-23-11, 11:54 AM
  #119  
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Originally Posted by DX-MAN View Post
I'm done with this silly thread; 'BYE.
+1
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Old 11-23-11, 02:17 PM
  #120  
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Originally Posted by dynodonn View Post
Judging by the type of gear and bicycles that these cyclists riding without lights have, I'd say that they are going dark by design.

Rather than yell at them to get a light, I'll usually ride behind them temporarily to give them a small taste of what it is like to have a light before I pull around them to make a pass. Some cyclists might get the idea, some may not, but at least they all now know what it's like to have a light.
.
Nice post. There is no point in yelling, it is almost always counterproductive. I like your approach and try to come up with something similar myself - you have to be creative. In some cases it's just that they were distracted for a minute, i.e. not necessarily a chronic problem. The guy in the unlit car was so distracted I was concerned about causing a shocked/panicked response if I honcked the horn. I tried driving in front of him and switching my own lights out very briefly a couple of times. When that didn't work I gave up and wished him luck .....

Nobody's perfect, we all need a bit of a nudge sometimes. I don't think it's helpful to do absolutely nothing about a dangerous situation that you see on the street - even if most people can't be bothered or are afraid to intervene in even the smallest of ways.

Last edited by ChasH; 11-23-11 at 02:23 PM.
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Old 11-23-11, 10:57 PM
  #121  
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Originally Posted by wphamilton View Post

I thought the whole thing was a spoof, up until the link. Beat up for lecturing about lights, amazing.
No, it really happens and it shouldn't surprise anybody that when you act in a negative(lecturing) manner you'll get negative response back, ten fold.
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Old 11-24-11, 12:20 AM
  #122  
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Originally Posted by wphamilton View Post
I admire this. If they didn't realize, now they do. If we're overly concerned or too far down that slippery slope chasing bigger lumens, no harm done. Win-win.

I thought the whole thing was a spoof, up until the link. Beat up for lecturing about lights, amazing.
A new form of 'road rage'?
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Old 11-24-11, 12:24 AM
  #123  
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Originally Posted by electrik View Post
No, it really happens and it shouldn't surprise anybody that when you act in a negative(lecturing) manner you'll get negative response back, ten fold.
Exactly. When I stopped a mother and her three kids a couple weeks ago, I didn't yell at them. I talked to them in a friendly manner. I also told them, I didn't want them to end up with two of three health problems I have had since birth. As a result of not wearing a helmet or, wearing it improperly.

Last edited by Chris516; 11-24-11 at 03:21 AM.
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Old 11-24-11, 10:10 AM
  #124  
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Originally Posted by Chris516 View Post
Exactly. When I stopped a mother and her three kids a couple weeks ago, I didn't yell at them. I talked to them in a friendly manner. I also told them, I didn't want them to end up with two of three health problems I have had since birth. As a result of not wearing a helmet or, wearing it improperly.

I won't even go that far since the home/car can be just as or more dangerous than a bicycle outing, and very few children wear any head protection at home or in a car.

My first and foremost goal is in doing all I can to not test my helmet, and if anybody asks me, I'll start talking about collision avoidance far in advance of helmet usage.
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Old 11-24-11, 10:35 PM
  #125  
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Originally Posted by dynodonn View Post
I won't even go that far since the home/car can be just as or more dangerous than a bicycle outing, and very few children wear any head protection at home or in a car.
The car and the home analogies, don't equate. Only a car/truck can physically stop a car/truck. What goes on in the home, doesn't involve a cyclist, unless they are actually involved in the situation in the home to begin with.

Originally Posted by dynodonn View Post
My first and foremost goal is in doing all I can to not test my helmet, and if anybody asks me, I'll start talking about collision avoidance far in advance of helmet usage.
I thought about collision avoidance, but who were they going to collide with. While there is an ordinance in the city banning biking on the sidewalk, outside of the few business establishments in the original center of the city there are very few pedestrians. So riding on the sidewalk in this case, was avoiding a collision apart from the small possibility of colliding with pedestrians on the sidewalk.
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