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BU Bridge Bike Lanes Complete! (Major Bike Advocacy Victory 3 years in the works)

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BU Bridge Bike Lanes Complete! (Major Bike Advocacy Victory 3 years in the works)

Old 01-07-12, 09:51 PM
  #101  
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Originally Posted by mconlonx View Post
Regarding the study you quoted, from the same source:

"This comparison suggests that bike lanes adjacent to parking may increase the rate of dooring collisions, though the absence of bicycle use figures and the small sample size in the newer study make a more definitive statement impossible."
So one study had enough data to show bike lanes increase doorings, while the second study did not have enough data to be even more definitive. Proves my point, bike lanes increase doorings.
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Old 01-07-12, 09:59 PM
  #102  
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Originally Posted by CB HI View Post
Aw yes you sight the blind numbers of believe correlation with no actual normalization and try claim victory.

Flawed so called studies are great. But all the defects in your so called studies have been repeatedly pointed out in the forums, as well as numbers that showed the opposite of safety in numbers.

And you want to use bike messenger data as your proof. Sort of like the proof motorist use to claim ALL cyclist break all the laws.
I'm not claiming any kind of victory, just doing some research and posting some results. Interesting; inconclusive.

Dude, the bike messenger data, where the researchers blame the riders but assign no blame to drivers dooring them? That's from the abstract you cited.
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Old 01-07-12, 10:10 PM
  #103  
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Originally Posted by CB HI View Post
So one study had enough data to show bike lanes increase doorings, while the second study did not have enough data to be even more definitive. Proves my point, bike lanes increase doorings.
What did you say about reading comprehension earlier? That you needed some? Do you know what the qualifier "may" means, as in "...bike lanes adjacent to parking may increase the rate of dooring collisions,..."? And the rest of the sentence saying they can't make any more definitive statement?

Or how 'bout the Wachtel quote saying there's, "... no significant difference in bicycle accident rates between arterial streets with and without bike lanes."

These are your sources I'm quoting here... Don't be hatin'.
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Old 01-07-12, 10:44 PM
  #104  
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Originally Posted by mconlonx View Post
I'm not claiming any kind of victory, just doing some research and posting some results. Interesting; inconclusive.

Dude, the bike messenger data, where the researchers blame the riders but assign no blame to drivers dooring them? That's from the abstract you cited.
And has nothing to do with bike lanes, but a great deal to do with the extraordinary risk bike messengers take.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=au0Zjn3eB9k
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVVwtzIPCfI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rWu9rMPj7o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVUv3mJLoEI
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Old 01-07-12, 10:46 PM
  #105  
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Originally Posted by mconlonx View Post
Or how 'bout the Wachtel quote saying there's, "... no significant difference in bicycle accident rates between arterial streets with and without bike lanes."
If you believe bike lanes do not prevent accidents, then why do you guys claim they are safer?
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Old 01-07-12, 10:53 PM
  #106  
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Originally Posted by mconlonx View Post
What did you say about reading comprehension earlier?
And I was correct as you prove that you are unable to understand
Originally Posted by CB HI View Post
one study had enough data to show bike lanes increase doorings, while the second study did not have enough data to be even more definitive.
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Old 01-08-12, 08:56 AM
  #107  
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Originally Posted by CB HI View Post
If you believe bike lanes do not prevent accidents, then why do you guys claim they are safer?
parking is allowed on the bridge? 'hyperfocused on doorings, the incensed burn.'

bikelanes have the nearly universal result in communities of increasing ridership and decreasing the indexed accident rate in every american city that has been building in bikelanes.

As an example, New York City has tripled ridership in the last decade concurrent with a 40 percent reduction in the bicycle crash rate.



fearmongering about Boston improving bridge decks for bicyclists as if the sky is falling is quite the nursery rhyme.

improving bridge decks for bicycle traffic is something every major american city should be looking at when planning for bicycle traffic, even honolulu.

Reducing traffic lanes and adding bike facilities is a proven, effective mediation sure to benefit bicyclists in every city with existing autocentric bridge decks.



kudos to boston for improving conditions for bicyclists there across a bridge that serves as a major bike route.

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Old 01-08-12, 01:06 PM
  #108  
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Originally Posted by CB HI View Post
And has nothing to do with bike lanes, but a great deal to do with the extraordinary risk bike messengers take.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=au0Zjn3eB9k
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVVwtzIPCfI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rWu9rMPj7o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVUv3mJLoEI
Blame the biker. You, too? OK...

Show me where, in the abstract of Boston study you cited, motorists are at all to blame for dooring cyclists...
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Old 01-08-12, 01:27 PM
  #109  
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Originally Posted by CB HI View Post
If you believe bike lanes do not prevent accidents, then why do you guys claim they are safer?
You'll need to quote where I said they were safer. All the stuff I've seen says they're not safer or more dangerous. You're the one claiming they are more dangerous, with, as far as I can figure, inconclusive studies either way...

Please quote relevant parts of the studies you cite, rather than links to abstracts of multiple studies.
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Old 01-08-12, 01:43 PM
  #110  
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Originally Posted by CB HI View Post
And I was correct as you prove that you are unable to understand
Sorry, which particular study are you referring to? The inconclusive, less than definitive Santa Barbara study? Or one of the other ones? You'll note that I posted relevant quotes, you seem unable or unwilling to do so, resorting to insults instead of clarifications.
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Old 01-09-12, 12:27 AM
  #111  
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Originally Posted by CB HI View Post
So one study had enough data to show bike lanes increase doorings, while the second study did not have enough data to be even more definitive. Proves my point, bike lanes increase doorings.
Doorings?!! What are you going on about now? Is it the default position when discussing any bike lane, even on a bridge where parking is prohibited, to bring up doorings?

Your posts have taken this thread seriously off track. It should be abundantly clear to anyone reading this thread that every cyclist that has posted from Boston has seen the changes on this bridge as a positive.

And that, according to the OP, is what this thread is about- Cyclists having a positive impact on their cycling environment.

But you, 6000 miles away, feel the need to go negative in any way you can. You don't feel the changes are adequate and you've tied the thread up with fear mongering, dredging up an unrelated tragic incident and doing all you can to discourage cyclists from actively participating in infrastructural changes because they don't suit your idea of what constitutes an ideal result.

For what it's worth, doorings have occurred in Boston on Commonwealth Avenue and Massachusetts Avenue long before any bike lanes were established. I worked in a shop on Mass Ave in Cambridge and years later taught at BU. The number of doorings was a constant source of discussion both in the shop and among people who rode to BU.

Bike lanes, and the resultant increase in bicyclists, along with new laws that severely penalize drivers for opening a door into an oncoming cyclist (and their enforcement) have contributed to a higher degree of awareness by drivers exiting and entering their vehicles. When I am in Boston, I ride these roads every day, as I have done for 30 years, I know a lot of cyclists who ride these same roads- were there any kind of increase in dooring incidences we would be talking about it- if anything, the doorings seem to have decreased. Not that they don't and won't happen, but the Chicken Little "sky is falling" pronouncements by CBHI are certainly out of proportion with reality.

For CBHI, and anyone else that is insecure about how to use a bike lane when cars are parked adjacent to it, I suggest they read this article from Boston Biker.

The rest of us will, hopefully, negotiate the hazards we find in any travel lane, whether it's road debris, potholes, grates, opening doors, swerving cars etc. with a healthy dose of vigilance and awareness.

Bike lanes in and of themselves offer no actual "protection"- they are lines of demarcation that can be easily crossed. What they do offer is:

1- A reminder that bikes may be present on the roadway. Even when a bike is not there the lane is there as a reminder.

2- A marked space for bicycles only they are meant to keep cars out not to lock bicycles in. Leave the lane if you feel it is necessary because of unsafe conditions- AND SIGNAL YOUR INTENTION TO LEAVE THE LANE!

3- The bike lane markings serve as a guide for both drivers and cyclists. Keeping a straight line is a challenge for some cyclists and motorists. Imagine cutting a sheet of plywood length wise or cutting a long bolt of cloth without making marks- how straight a cut would you make?
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Old 01-09-12, 12:49 AM
  #112  
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I got to the second sentence and if this guy cannot do any better than this on his blog, then why would I wan't to take advice and trust him?

These people area almost allways confident experienced cyclists.
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Old 01-09-12, 01:02 AM
  #113  
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Originally Posted by buzzman View Post
Doorings?!! What are you going on about now? Is it the default position when discussing any bike lane, even on a bridge where parking is prohibited, to bring up doorings?
I simply responded to one of mconlonx's, many side tracks to keep his effort of arguing going on. At this point he is simply trolling and you and Bek can jump on him about the dooring discussion.

Originally Posted by mconlonx View Post
Do you know that when they put bike lanes on Mass Ave in Boston, the removed parking on the westbound side? Do you really think they didn't take all your considerations into account?
At this point, if you and Bek cannot track the thread before posting, then you guys are simply trolling as well. As often done by the, we must have bike lanes crowd.
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Old 01-09-12, 03:08 AM
  #114  
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Just another local, chiming in on what seems to be an overly contentious topic. Although I've driven across the BU bridge hundreds, if not thousands, of times, I've only ridden my bike across twice (once in each direction during a round trip). My one experience riding it was enough to make me seek a different route, as it seemed way too unsafe at the time. With the recent improvements, I'm willing to give it another try. It most certainly can't be worse than it was. Getting a project like this done is most definitely a fine accomplishment, considering the obstacles posed by our local government and the non-cycling public. I applaud all who participated in making this a reality.
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Old 01-09-12, 06:59 AM
  #115  
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Originally Posted by CB HI View Post
I simply responded... to keep his effort of arguing going on. At this point he is simply trolling...
Woah there, who, exactly, is doing the trolling here...?

You still need to support your claim that I said bike lanes are safer, and clarify which study in the multiple study abstract on Allen's site you were referring to.

PS you brought up doorings. Study you cited in post 31, using Dana's death in post 41, explicitly mentioning dooring in post 73. No mention of dooring until after you'd brought it up repeatedly.

Good job, Boston/Cambridge -- the BU bridge was never part of my regular commute through the city, but the few times I had to ride the bridge, it was usually a huge cluster****.
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Last edited by unterhausen; 01-09-12 at 08:01 AM. Reason: defeating censor, insults
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Old 01-09-12, 08:03 AM
  #116  
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once again, we have cycled through the "debate" multiple times and devolved into insults. Closed
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