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Most Effectice Bit of Advocacy you can do RIGHT NOW

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Most Effectice Bit of Advocacy you can do RIGHT NOW

Old 02-07-12, 06:09 AM
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vidvis
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Most Effectice Bit of Advocacy you can do RIGHT NOW

Do you feel like motorists are out to kill you at worst and indifferent to your safety at best? Do you feel like you don't have equal protection under the law once you decide to ride a bicycle? Do you feel that cyclist who don't follow traffic laws anger drivers to the point where all cyclists are endangered?

Well, you're wrong.

The single most effective act of bicycle advocacy you can do RIGHT NOW is to help fight the culture of fear, paranoia and victimhood that thrives in this forum.

The formula is simple. More cyclists=more safety. More fear=fewer cyclists.

There are members of this forum who consistently overstate, to the point of parody, the dangers of riding a bicycle. When you see this happen, call them on their bull****.

Try to be nice about it.

Thank you for making cycling safer.
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Old 02-07-12, 06:37 AM
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It's not a "feeling", it's a reality; just because you call it otherwise doesn't change a damned thing.

"Fear" is a survival mechanism, not something to be eliminated; "GIVING IN to fear" is the issue that must be resolved. "Paranoia" is a label, much like "class warfare" that simply doesn't apply. Ask UNTERHAUSEN if his repeated patterns of near-misses from raging drivers is a result of paranoia. Victimhood, really? Personally, I don't cry, "Oh, woe is me, help me! Cars are trying to hurt me!" I bellow (at the drivers), "BRING IT ON, M-F!"

The real enemy is ignorance, fostered and perpetuated by a system that defaults to unacceptably low levels; NO ONE is "entitled" to drive, nor should many presently on the road BE there. There is a certain level of skill required to operate a machine like a car in speedy traffic, and too many 'drivers' have difficulty walking and chewing gum at the same time.

We as a people tend to manage our lives by exception; that which stands OUT, gets focused attention. Cyclists stand out, because they are so few, and because they don't operate exactly as a car, they are perceived as "wrong", simply by being out of the norm. AND, since there is so little focus by licensing authorities on LEARNING THE LAW, too many people wind up relying on word-of-mouth and perception to decide what's acceptable on the roads. (EXAMPLE: how many drivers know the meaning of the word "practicable"?)

A final point: 'fighting the culture...on this forum' isn't going to do a thing to solve issues OUT THERE. Sure, you're entitled to your OPINION; but, guess what? Opinions are like sphincters, everyone has one, most stink. SO, IMO, YOU'RE WRONG. See, we both stand a chance of stinking.

Your insinuation of hyperbole by other members here likely has SOME merit; but taking the other extreme does no good. Cycling in traffic is not harmless, either. A bump by a car that doesn't even leave a dent can KILL a cyclist.

Nicely as I can do, consider yourself called on your bull****.
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Old 02-07-12, 06:54 AM
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I'm getting ready to ride my bike to work, not sure if I can say anything more than that.

Nobody reads anything on A&S and thinks anything other than the fact that those of us that post in here are nuts. Every thread devolves into an argument that looks like a discussion of which way the toilet paper roll should face at a convention of OCD sufferers.
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Old 02-07-12, 07:12 AM
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Originally Posted by DX-MAN View Post
It's not a "feeling", it's a reality; just because you call it otherwise doesn't change a damned thing.

"Fear" is a survival mechanism, not something to be eliminated; "GIVING IN to fear" is the issue that must be resolved. "Paranoia" is a label, much like "class warfare" that simply doesn't apply. Ask UNTERHAUSEN if his repeated patterns of near-misses from raging drivers is a result of paranoia. Victimhood, really? Personally, I don't cry, "Oh, woe is me, help me! Cars are trying to hurt me!" I bellow (at the drivers), "BRING IT ON, M-F!"

The real enemy is ignorance, fostered and perpetuated by a system that defaults to unacceptably low levels; NO ONE is "entitled" to drive, nor should many presently on the road BE there. There is a certain level of skill required to operate a machine like a car in speedy traffic, and too many 'drivers' have difficulty walking and chewing gum at the same time.

We as a people tend to manage our lives by exception; that which stands OUT, gets focused attention. Cyclists stand out, because they are so few, and because they don't operate exactly as a car, they are perceived as "wrong", simply by being out of the norm. AND, since there is so little focus by licensing authorities on LEARNING THE LAW, too many people wind up relying on word-of-mouth and perception to decide what's acceptable on the roads. (EXAMPLE: how many drivers know the meaning of the word "practicable"?)

A final point: 'fighting the culture...on this forum' isn't going to do a thing to solve issues OUT THERE. Sure, you're entitled to your OPINION; but, guess what? Opinions are like sphincters, everyone has one, most stink. SO, IMO, YOU'RE WRONG. See, we both stand a chance of stinking.

Your insinuation of hyperbole by other members here likely has SOME merit; but taking the other extreme does no good. Cycling in traffic is not harmless, either. A bump by a car that doesn't even leave a dent can KILL a cyclist.

Nicely as I can do, consider yourself called on your bull****.

See guys, this is the kind of thing I'm talking about. All froth and insults, no content.

No time to address your points atm, DX-man. I'll reply in more depth after work. Have a nice day
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Old 02-07-12, 07:28 AM
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Originally Posted by vidvis View Post
See guys, this is the kind of thing I'm talking about. All froth and insults, no content.

No time to address your points atm, DX-man. I'll reply in more depth after work. Have a nice day
"No content', in your opinion; fine. Don't bother, I won't see it -- you've joined 'the club'. Now I'm sorry I wasted my time replying to your inanity (NO, not 'insanity', inanity, the state of being inane).

U/H, THAT was HILARIOUS!
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Old 02-07-12, 12:26 PM
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Duuude, they are all out to get me. All of them. You could say the car drivers of Massachusetts are indifferent. I would call them M*******s, a very popular term for drivers here. Pedal mile in my shoes, you will see. Where do you pedal in this bicycle nirvana? I would like to join this touchy, feely every body loves me riding area. Yes, more riders are a good thing, Boston has made great strides in the last 3 years with bike advocacy and bike lanes. Ride safe my friend. I'm not paranoid, but they are watching my every move, cars can sense fear.
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Old 02-07-12, 12:56 PM
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In P&R, somebody posted a thread about "be nice to each other," and 99 % of the replies were nasty. In A&S, somebody posts a thread about "cycling isn't as dangerous as people make it out to be; ride your bike and have fun," and then the first reply is raving paranoid madness. Is there some kind of rule that good advice needs to be met by its opposite?

Originally Posted by unterhausen View Post
Nobody reads anything on A&S and thinks anything other than the fact that those of us that post in here are nuts. Every thread devolves into an argument that looks like a discussion of which way the toilet paper roll should face at a convention of OCD sufferers.
Good point.
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Old 02-07-12, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Leebo View Post
Duuude, they are all out to get me. All of them. You could say the car drivers of Massachusetts are indifferent. I would call them M*******s, a very popular term for drivers here. Pedal mile in my shoes, you will see. Where do you pedal in this bicycle nirvana? I would like to join this touchy, feely every body loves me riding area. Yes, more riders are a good thing, Boston has made great strides in the last 3 years with bike advocacy and bike lanes. Ride safe my friend. I'm not paranoid, but they are watching my every move, cars can sense fear.
I've ridden all over the Cape, and I find that discourteous drivers are rare. Very rare. If anything, vehicles tend to give me much more room than I'd ever need. I can be 6" from the pavement edge and a vehicle will pull over the yellow line to pass me 9 times out of 10 when there's no oncoming traffic. And wait until it passes if there is an oncoming car. I regularly have to wave people ahead on curves, when I can see around them and they can't.

And when I can see something ahead of me developing, I anticipate the worst and ride defensively. Same as I do behind the wheel.

I really wonder what the median age level in this forum is, sometimes. Maybe middle aged guys see things differently.
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Old 02-07-12, 01:10 PM
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I disagree with the idea that people here say cycling is horribly dangerous. You see that position advocated occasionally, but those people get shouted down pretty quickly. I have come to the conclusion that a lot of the subjects we discuss in here are a little touchy, and we aren't going to be an effective advocacy forum as a result. Most effective advocacy groups are grass roots anyway
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Old 02-07-12, 01:29 PM
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This is a silly thread.

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Originally Posted by bragi "However, it's never a good idea to overgeneralize."
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Old 02-07-12, 01:45 PM
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Originally Posted by unterhausen View Post
Nobody reads anything on A&S and thinks anything other than the fact that those of us that post in here are nuts. Every thread devolves into an argument that looks like a discussion of which way the toilet paper roll should face at a convention of OCD sufferers.
You make it sound like it isn't any fun!

Oh, and tp must roll from the top, duh.
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Old 02-07-12, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by vidvis View Post
Do you feel like motorists are out to kill you at worst and indifferent to your safety at best?
No
Originally Posted by vidvis View Post
Do you feel like you don't have equal protection under the law once you decide to ride a bicycle?
No
Originally Posted by vidvis View Post
Do you feel that cyclist who don't follow traffic laws anger drivers to the point where all cyclists are endangered?
Some have angered a few motorists who were looking for excuses to be angry in the first place. I don't think it endangers me, but it is possible it has led to a driver being rude to me, although I have seen no direct evidence.
Originally Posted by vidvis View Post
Well, you're wrong.
Why so argumentative?
Originally Posted by vidvis View Post
The single most effective act of bicycle advocacy you can do RIGHT NOW is to help fight the culture of fear, paranoia and victimhood that thrives in this forum.
Or just move on... This place is tedious.
Originally Posted by vidvis View Post
The formula is simple. More cyclists=more safety.
Proof?
Originally Posted by vidvis View Post
More fear=fewer cyclists.
Agreed.
Originally Posted by vidvis View Post
There are members of this forum who consistently overstate, to the point of parody, the dangers of riding a bicycle. When you see this happen, call them on their bull****.
.
Waste of time. Too much turnover, lack of critical thinking and unwillingness to take full responsibility for ones own safety.
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Old 02-07-12, 01:58 PM
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Originally Posted by noisebeam View Post

Waste of time. Too much turnover, lack of critical thinking and unwillingness to take full responsibility for ones own safety.
Thanks for participating in the thread to tell us you're not going to participate in the thread?

And I agree, tp should roll from the top.

Last edited by vidvis; 02-07-12 at 02:00 PM. Reason: Important stuff
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Old 02-07-12, 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by vidvis View Post
Thanks for participating in the thread to tell us you're not going to participate in the thread?
1. I never indicated that I would not participate in this thread. I only wrote that responding to others BS who consistently overstate the dangers is a waste of time. (Or are you suggesting your thread is overstated BS? )

2. Why do you assume I don't like to waste my time on occasion. Most people do.
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Old 02-07-12, 04:13 PM
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Originally Posted by vidvis View Post
... Well, you're wrong. ...

The formula is simple. More cyclists=more safety. More fear=fewer cyclists.

... When you see this happen, call them on their bull****.
More cyclists=more safety. I am calling you on your BS.
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Old 02-07-12, 04:30 PM
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Originally Posted by unterhausen View Post
I'm getting ready to ride my bike to work, not sure if I can say anything more than that.

Nobody reads anything on A&S and thinks anything other than the fact that those of us that post in here are nuts. Every thread devolves into an argument that looks like a discussion of which way the toilet paper roll should face at a convention of OCD sufferers.
that is out... meaning the paper should roll toward your pull, not slinky in a cowardly matter toward the wall or cabinet.


as to the OP......... The single most effective adovacy is to ride your bike. Ride VC, Ride on infrastructure. Ride in you khakis and Polo shirt, ride in your full team kit, ride you utility bike, ride your race bike, rid for fun, ride for errands, ride for exercise, ride to race, ride to see your kid have fun.

second most effective advocacy, help some one ride, teach a kid, fix a neighbors bike, volunter to fix bikes for charity......

third most effective advocacy, get involved with your local government.... vounteer (more cities have citizens advisory committee's than you would think)

and when in doubt.....ride your bike

treat A&S as what it is a diversion.
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Old 02-07-12, 04:36 PM
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Originally Posted by DX-MAN View Post
It's not a "feeling", it's a reality; just because you call it otherwise doesn't change a damned thing.

"Fear" is a survival mechanism, not something to be eliminated; "GIVING IN to fear" is the issue that must be resolved. "Paranoia" is a label, much like "class warfare" that simply doesn't apply. Ask UNTERHAUSEN if his repeated patterns of near-misses from raging drivers is a result of paranoia. Victimhood, really? Personally, I don't cry, "Oh, woe is me, help me! Cars are trying to hurt me!" I bellow (at the drivers), "BRING IT ON, M-F!"

The real enemy is ignorance, fostered and perpetuated by a system that defaults to unacceptably low levels; NO ONE is "entitled" to drive, nor should many presently on the road BE there. There is a certain level of skill required to operate a machine like a car in speedy traffic, and too many 'drivers' have difficulty walking and chewing gum at the same time.

We as a people tend to manage our lives by exception; that which stands OUT, gets focused attention. Cyclists stand out, because they are so few, and because they don't operate exactly as a car, they are perceived as "wrong", simply by being out of the norm. AND, since there is so little focus by licensing authorities on LEARNING THE LAW, too many people wind up relying on word-of-mouth and perception to decide what's acceptable on the roads. (EXAMPLE: how many drivers know the meaning of the word "practicable"?)


Agreed, most drivers seem to equate practicable with possible. As well as looking at it from a motorists point of view. The road looks very different depending on the type of vehicle one is operating. A road surface that looks smooth and safe to the driver of an 18-wheeler is going to be very different to the driver of a smaller car or a motorcycle or a bicycle. Likewise the road that looks smooth and safe to the driver of a car is going to look very different to the driver of a motorcycle or a bicycle.

Most of us here can tell motorists from that even though the right side of the road may look smooth and safe to them, looks very different to a person who is on a bicycle.

Originally Posted by DX-MAN View Post
A final point: 'fighting the culture...on this forum' isn't going to do a thing to solve issues OUT THERE. Sure, you're entitled to your OPINION; but, guess what? Opinions are like sphincters, everyone has one, most stink. SO, IMO, YOU'RE WRONG. See, we both stand a chance of stinking.

Your insinuation of hyperbole by other members here likely has SOME merit; but taking the other extreme does no good. Cycling in traffic is not harmless, either. A bump by a car that doesn't even leave a dent can KILL a cyclist.

Nicely as I can do, consider yourself called on your bull****.
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Old 02-07-12, 05:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Digital_Cowboy View Post

Agreed, most drivers seem to equate practicable with possible.
That may be, but I'd say it matters little since most drivers are unaware of any bicycle law containing the word 'practicable'. Ask around and see.

I agree with squirtdad. Riding your bike is the most effective form of advocacy. Smiling while your doing probably can help a little too.

I do feel that some here overstate the dangers of riding a bicycle on the road, and that's a shame. Non-cyclists do a good enough job of that on their own, they sure don't need any help from active cyclists.
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Old 02-07-12, 05:47 PM
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Before this thread, the only thing I had to fear was bicycling on the street, itself. Now I'm also terrified of posting on BF. Thanks.
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Old 02-07-12, 06:01 PM
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I get the feeling that most motorists are terrified of hitting me when they see me because I see them as competition and thus I choose to ride rather aggressively to give them the choice of driving into me or around me. And so far most of them drive around me.
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Old 02-07-12, 06:10 PM
  #21  
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Originally Posted by Transformer View Post
Before this thread, the only thing I had to fear was bicycling on the street, itself. Now I'm also terrified of posting on BF. Thanks.
The only thing we have to fear is A&S itself.

Lot's of folk's on BF are afraid of this sub-forum. I don't know... it doesn't seem too bad to me. You don't have to join in fights to be entertained or occasionally even learn a thing or two.
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Old 02-07-12, 06:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Transformer View Post
Before this thread, the only thing I had to fear was bicycling on the street, itself. Now I'm also terrified of posting on BF. Thanks.
Exactly!!
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Old 02-07-12, 06:31 PM
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Originally Posted by CB HI View Post
More cyclists=more safety. I am calling you on your BS.
Sorry I used a little short-hand here. I simply meant that the more people ride bikes, the more accustomed motorists get to having them around. As they become more accustomed to having cyclists around, there should be fewer accidents. This seems pretty uncontroversial to me. No, I'm not going to 'prove' it. I'm not submitting an article for peer review, I'm writing on an internet forum. It either seems reasonable or not.
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Old 02-07-12, 06:34 PM
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Originally Posted by AlmostTrick View Post
The only thing we have to fear is A&S itself.

Lot's of folk's on BF are afraid of this sub-forum. I don't know... it doesn't seem too bad to me. You don't have to join in fights to be entertained or occasionally even learn a thing or two.
Awe, man! You looked behind the curtain!! You gotta be afraid of CB HI -- otherwise his living in paradise becomes a sham!!
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Old 02-07-12, 06:56 PM
  #25  
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Originally Posted by vidvis View Post
Sorry I used a little short-hand here. I simply meant that the more people ride bikes, the more accustomed motorists get to having them around. As they become more accustomed to having cyclists around, there should be fewer accidents. This seems pretty uncontroversial to me. No, I'm not going to 'prove' it. I'm not submitting an article for peer review, I'm writing on an internet forum. It either seems reasonable or not.
Of course you will not provide the proof, since there is none. Part of advocacy is not thinking you know the answer and just throwing it out there. True advocacy needs the research to confirm the hypophysis. Otherwise the cure is often worse than the disease.

I have been daily commuting since 1982. For many years when there were fewer cyclist out there, very few motorist ever passed too close, they were too afraid of hitting me. With more cyclist, my experience is that motorist have become too comfortable passing closer and closer to cyclist, decreasing the margin for error and thereby reducing my safety.

So my personal observation is the opposite of your claim.
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Last edited by CB HI; 02-07-12 at 07:00 PM.
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