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Is not wearing a bike helmet punishable with pepper spray?

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Is not wearing a bike helmet punishable with pepper spray?

Old 03-10-12, 08:59 AM
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1nterceptor
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Is not wearing a bike helmet punishable with pepper spray?

"Police say Sean Taylor was asked to pull over four times and he tried to evade police. Police also say exactly what did happen is yet to be fully established.

Sean is facing charges of failing to stop for an officer, resisting arrest and escaping custody.

It is not the sort of result you would expect from riding a bike without a helmet."

Read the full article:
http://www.3news.co.nz/Is-not-wearin...1/Default.aspx
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Old 03-10-12, 09:10 AM
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Re-read the article....

"Sean is facing charges of failing to stop for an officer, resisting arrest and escaping custody." - Not for not wearing a helmet.

He knew the law and he chose to ignore it, and the verbal warnings from the police. The pepper spray was the consequence of his choice.

Last edited by Stealthammer; 03-10-12 at 09:15 AM.
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Old 03-10-12, 09:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Stealthammer View Post
Re-read the article....

"Sean is facing charges of failing to stop for an officer, resisting arrest and escaping custody." - Not for not wearing a helmet.

He knew the law and he chose to ignore it, and the verbal warnings from the police. The pepper spray was the consequence of his choice.
Re read it yourself... the resisting arrest came from being stopped for not wearing a helmet... otherwise why was there a stop warranted in the first place? Speeding?

Sean was biking along the road last Tuesday when a police officer told him to get off his bike because he was not wearing a helmet.
Sean walked his bike until the police officer was out of sight. Then he jumped back on it.
A 1km down the road the officer again asked him to walk, but Sean says he was running late for work.
That is when the officer pulled over beside him and said he was going to place him under arrest.
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Old 03-10-12, 10:41 AM
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If a cop tells you to walk your bike in a jurisdiction that has helmet laws and you repeatedly ignore him, you're going to get arrested. If you try to avoid getting arrested, you're going to get tasered or pepper sprayed. What's the big surprise?
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Old 03-10-12, 10:50 AM
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No comment other than to note that our local helmet Nazis are probably dissapointed the guy didn't got shot.
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Old 03-10-12, 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by NCbiker View Post
If a cop tells you to walk your bike in a jurisdiction that has helmet laws and you repeatedly ignore him, you're going to get arrested. If you try to avoid getting arrested, you're going to get tasered or pepper sprayed. What's the big surprise?
I wonder if they enforce the seat belt laws as strictly?
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Old 03-10-12, 10:56 AM
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If an officer tries to pull you over in your car for not coming to a full stop, and you take off like a shot trying to ditch him. You will be pursued, contained by force, and arrested. The rolling stop wasn't the problem, the fleeing and evading was. It's the same on a bike or even on foot. I can see the side of law enforcement on this one. No rational person would risk him/herself and the public safety to flee a police officer unless there was more to the story than a traffic violation. Most people who flee minor violations have either committed a more serious crime or have outstanding warrants for more serious offenses. An officer has to assume that someone who would flee and resist arrest is potentially dangerous and must take reasonable action to subdue and contain the individual.

Re read it yourself... the resisting arrest came from being stopped for not wearing a helmet
That's stupid, the resisting arrest charge came from resisting arrest. If Sean had used his head and just pulled over, spoken with the officer in a civil tone and admitted he was in violation of the law/ordinance, he probably would have gotten off with a warning or at worst, a minor citation and small fine. Instead he proved he didn't need a helmet as there was nothing worth protecting by turning a slap on the wrist into a beat down and several serious charges. Sean was given two opportunities to comply with the law but refused and then fled.

An officer's job is to enforce the laws and ordinances of his/her jurisdiction regardless of whether he/she agrees with them personally or if you have a valid argument against them. If you have a problem with a helmet ordinance/law, then your beef is with the legislative body that passed it, not with the officer. We are required to comply with laws that are on the books and to go through proper channels if we want them changed. Before someone brings up civil disobedience as a way of change, this incident was not civil in any way. The civil disobedient make a statement by refusing to comply with a law then calmly and civilly allow themselves to be arrested so they can garner media attention and make their argument in a court of law. They are seeking their day in court, not running from it.

Sean could have put a $25 helmet on his head and avoided the whole situation. He could have become an advocate for repealing the helmet law/ordinance. Instead he screwed his position as a reputable and responsible citizen which will make it that much harder to get the law repealed.

If you are in violation of a law or ordinance, stop and remain civil when confronted by an officer. State your position calmly. Your choices from there are to accept and comply with the law or to tell the officer you refuse to comply and submit to citation or arrest, then argue your position in court.
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Old 03-10-12, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by 1nterceptor View Post
"Police say Sean Taylor was asked to pull over four times and he tried to evade police. Police also say exactly what did happen is yet to be fully established.

Sean is facing charges of failing to stop for an officer, resisting arrest and escaping custody.

It is not the sort of result you would expect from riding a bike without a helmet."

Read the full article:
http://www.3news.co.nz/Is-not-wearin...1/Default.aspx
Sean is facing charges of failing to stop for an officer, resisting arrest and escaping custody. It doesn't matter the original alleged offense, it might only be spitting on the sidewalk. Once you resist arrest or attempt to escape you have escalated things to a whole different level.

The statement "not wearing a bike helmet punishable with pepper spray" is nonsense.

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Old 03-10-12, 11:01 AM
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"Sean Taylor – who is bikeless and a bit sore for the experience - is taking life in the slow lane and now walking to work."


This is a sad end result, and now there's one less cyclist. I cringe whenever I hear some of our local cycling advocates' zeal in their crusade to put helmets on all local cyclists.
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Old 03-10-12, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by genec View Post
Re read it yourself... the resisting arrest came from being stopped for not wearing a helmet... otherwise why was there a stop warranted in the first place? Speeding?
I don't give a damn where the "the resisting arrest came from". Once the "victim" refused to comply with officer's instructions to walk the bike, remounted the bike in defiance of those instructions, and attempted to flee, the victim was guilty of the escalated offenses.

BTW: Whether he was actually required to wear a helmet is also a question unchallenged by the "victim's" account, because Hawaii only requires a helmet if the rider is 16 years old or younger, so I find the "victim's" account suspicious at best.



This is about ignoring police instructions, refusing to stop when instructed, running away when a stop was attempted, not about not wearing a helmet. He wasn't pepper sprayed until he refused to comply with the instructions the officer gave him, resisted arrest and attempted to escape custody repeatedly, and then finally failed to stop for an officer when caught. In fact, the officer didn't even appear to intend on giving him a ticket for not wearing a helmet.




Originally Posted by genec View Post
I wonder if they enforce the seat belt laws as strictly?

I would imagine that someone ignoring police instructions, refusing to stop when instructed, running away when a stop was attempted for not wearing a seat belt would be treated the same way.

Last edited by Stealthammer; 03-10-12 at 11:08 AM.
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Old 03-10-12, 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Stealthammer View Post
BTW: Whether he was actually required to wear a helmet is also a question unchallenged by the "victim's" account, because Hawaii only requires a helmet if the rider is 16 years old or younger, so I find the "victim's" account suspicious at best.

This took place in New Zealand.
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Old 03-10-12, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by dynodonn View Post
This took place in New Zealand.
My bad. Then Sean is surely a ****head as the NZ law is well known to apply to all......
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Old 03-10-12, 11:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Stealthammer View Post
My bad. Then Sean is surely a ****head as the NZ law is well known to apply to all......

Yes, he was foolish to run, and makes me appreciate that our laws make bicycle helmet wearing as an option amongst adult riders.
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Old 03-10-12, 11:24 AM
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The reason for the stop does make a difference to a degree. When you get stopped for a non-moving violation, such as expired inspection or burned out tail light, you get a ticket and that's the end of it. Another cop stops you, you just show him your ticket and it's very unlikely to get another - you just go on your way. The cop doesn't follow along hounding you about something you can't immediately fix.

I don't know about New Zealand but with that situation here the cop should have at most issued a ticket or warning and left him alone. The NZ cop's behavior, while perhaps technically within his authority, looks abusive to me.
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Old 03-10-12, 11:27 AM
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I'm in emergency medical services and work closely with law enforcement in my area. I can tell you that the vast majority of officers will not use pepper spray unless the person is out of control or violent. There is a lot of paperwork and oversight involved in pepper spraying or tasing a subject and an officer can get his arse in a sling in a hurry if he uses them in an excessive or abusive manner. Sure there are incidents of poor judgement by a few officers but the media makes it appear that everyone who ever mouths off gets hit with pepper spray and/or tased, this is not the case. I've witnessed first hand a lot of mouthy, abusive, intoxicated, even violent people on the scene of accidents or assaults and rarely does the pepper spray come out.
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Old 03-10-12, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Stealthammer View Post
I don't give a damn where the "the resisting arrest came from". Once the "victim" refused to comply with officer's instructions to walk the bike, remounted the bike in defiance of those instructions, and attempted to flee, the victim was guilty of the escalated offenses.

BTW: Whether he was actually required to wear a helmet is also a question unchallenged by the "victim's" account, because Hawaii only requires a helmet if the rider is 16 years old or younger, so I find the "victim's" account suspicious at best.



This is about ignoring police instructions, refusing to stop when instructed, running away when a stop was attempted, not about not wearing a helmet. He wasn't pepper sprayed until he refused to comply with the instructions the officer gave him, resisted arrest and attempted to escape custody repeatedly, and then finally failed to stop for an officer when caught. In fact, the officer didn't even appear to intend on giving him a ticket for not wearing a helmet.







I would imagine that someone ignoring police instructions, refusing to stop when instructed, running away when a stop was attempted for not wearing a seat belt would be treated the same way.
So are they stopping motorists for not using seat belts and then threatening them with pepper spray? Or even issuing tickets? How about peds jaywalking?
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Old 03-10-12, 11:57 AM
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Even the police say "Police also say exactly what did happen is yet to be fully established." So I'll reserve judgement.
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Old 03-10-12, 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by genec View Post
So are they stopping motorists for not using seat belts and then threatening them with pepper spray? Or even issuing tickets? How about peds jaywalking?
Are you really still hung on this? If driver is stopped for not wearing seatbelt but then runs once pulled off. Then that could totally escalate to a situation where pepper spray is used. So yes. Same with jaywalker that runs or fights officer.
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Old 03-10-12, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by wphamilton View Post

I don't know about New Zealand but with that situation here the cop should have at most issued a ticket or warning and left him alone.
If anything, it should have been treated like our seat belt laws, not wearing one garners an automatic ticket and subsequent fine, and it would have probably been the end of story on both parties parts.
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Old 03-10-12, 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted by wphamilton View Post
The reason for the stop does make a difference to a degree. When you get stopped for a non-moving violation, such as expired inspection or burned out tail light, you get a ticket and that's the end of it. Another cop stops you, you just show him your ticket and it's very unlikely to get another - you just go on your way. The cop doesn't follow along hounding you about something you can't immediately fix.

I don't know about New Zealand but with that situation here the cop should have at most issued a ticket or warning and left him alone. The NZ cop's behavior, while perhaps technically within his authority, looks abusive to me.
Riding without a helmet is not a "non-moving violation". In point of fact, it is a "moving" violation.

If you are riding a motorcycle without a helmet where a mandatory helmet law exists, and the cop tells you to park the bike and get a helmet, you bet your a$$ he will pull you over again if he sees you riding helmetless again a few minutes later, if he doesn't just cuff you on the spot. Your argument is laughable.



Originally Posted by genec View Post
So are they stopping motorists for not using seat belts and then threatening them with pepper spray? Or even issuing tickets? How about peds jaywalking?
If they are then ignoring police instructions, refusing to stop when instructed, running away when a stop was attempted, damn right!

Are you possibly as clueless as you sound? The offenses that got him pepper sprayed were refusing to comply with officer's instructions to walk the bike, remounting the bike in defiance of those instructions, and attempting to flee, not the initial offense of riding without a helmet. The ****head got what he deserved. He escalated a simple situation into a confrontation that he lost and certainly should have landed him in jail.



Originally Posted by dynodonn View Post
If anything, it should have been treated like our seat belt laws, not wearing one garners an automatic ticket and subsequent fine, and it would have probably been the end of story on both parties parts.
Agreed. It actually sounds as though the cop was satisfied if the guy just walked the bike and had no intention of even ticketing him. This is a perfect example of accepting responsibility for one's actions rather than escalating in defiance.

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Old 03-10-12, 01:33 PM
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smart dud. he went from a slap on the wrist fine to felony charges by running and resisting. with luck "he" will never have offspring.
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Old 03-10-12, 01:52 PM
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This thread needs less stupid and more party girls...

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Old 03-10-12, 02:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Stealthammer View Post

This is a perfect example of accepting responsibility for one's actions rather than escalating in defiance.
.....or a perfect example of a law that is over rated, and that induces ordinary citizens to make poor legal decisions.
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Old 03-10-12, 02:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Doohickie View Post
This thread needs....more party girls...
Talk about Silicone Valley Dolls.......
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Old 03-10-12, 04:20 PM
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OK, folks; the reasonableness of the NZ helmet law is not under the microscope, I think we all agree it's stupid and oppressive. . . but if you want to ride a bike in NZ, you better have the lid. I posted in the article's comment section, putting out the point that an ounce of civil disobedience isn't worth a pound of trouble.

I'm also glad the helmet laws are what they are here; in fact, because of NZ's helmet law (and the following paragraph), I have decided NZ isn't for me, no matter how hospitable and beautiful.

A blogger that posts on FB, under the tag "Path Less Pedaled", recounted an incident that happened to her and her male companion while touring NZ recently (they have apparently just returned to the 48); while riding through an area of smaller towns, they were assaulted by a wild driver who aggressively buzzed them, and attacked him! They were able to get some police followup on it, but it stained an otherwise stellar tour for them.

Bottom line: NZ bikeboy could have avoided it all by wearing a helmet, it's not a medieval torture device.
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