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Delicate situation - suggestions please...........

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Delicate situation - suggestions please...........

Old 06-04-12, 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Commodus
Pedestrians are random. Slow down, say hi, make your way safely around them. What the other rider does is his problem. You can't ride everyone's bike at the same time, just worry about riding yours.
+1

And, if you are in a hurry, then don't ride on the MUP, ride on the streets which are designed for higher speed traffic flow.
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Old 06-04-12, 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Digital_Cowboy
Ah, but just how far is the OP suppose to go in preventing a crash?
100 percent effort to avoid any crash including just pulling over and stopping or going the speed of the walkers until it's safe to pass.
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Old 06-04-12, 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Thirstyman
Can no one think for themselves any more?
Nope. Got to ask ask the masses for their ideas.
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Old 06-04-12, 04:35 PM
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I would start weaving. The thing that I worry about is that some idiot cyclist would cause speed restrictions on a MUP because of their carelessness, and then everyone loses.

There is no way I would pass the two pedestrians at the same time. I pass all pedestrians at a walking pace if they are going the same direction I am. One of my main complaints against motorists is that they refuse to slow down, why should I do the same in a situation that might prove dangerous to someone else? Maybe we have lower pedestrian traffic than other places. I'm not sure I would ride on a mup with heavy pedestrian traffic
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Old 06-04-12, 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by gpsblake
100 percent effort to avoid any crash including just pulling over and stopping or going the speed of the walkers until it's safe to pass.
Yup, same response we expect from motorists if it were cyclists they had to pass.
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Old 06-04-12, 04:59 PM
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You should speed up and drop the guy behind you at the next hill.




Oh wait, this is not the road bike forum...

Traditionally, it is the overtaking rider's responsibility to make a safe pass. But you cannot rely on the other guy to do what is sensible so instead yell loudly that you have no brakes and the pedestrians will jump out of the way. Or just slow down a little bit and let the guy behind you pass before the pedestrians.
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Old 06-05-12, 12:13 AM
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Originally Posted by gpsblake
100 percent effort to avoid any crash including just pulling over and stopping or going the speed of the walkers until it's safe to pass.
Which is what I believe the OP was doing, going the speed of the walkers. It was the second person on a bicycle that was going fast. Which brings us back to my question, given that the OP was going slow and the other person was going fast. Just what was the OP suppose to do to avoid a crash? Was he suppose to place himself in danger?
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Old 06-05-12, 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Digital_Cowboy
Which is what I believe the OP was doing, going the speed of the walkers. It was the second person on a bicycle that was going fast. Which brings us back to my question, given that the OP was going slow and the other person was going fast. Just what was the OP suppose to do to avoid a crash? Was he suppose to place himself in danger?
Good grief, it's been said several times: he simply uses the hand signal for slowing/stopping. Does nobody know or use this signal any more? Is it really a new concept to some riders? You slow down in bike traffic, you use the slow down/stop hand signal. Maybe we need to review the fact that you should signal your turns too?

Or are you assuming that the following cyclist is too much of a clueless idiot to respond properly to that signal? If so why is that assumption made? I make no such assumption. Just as when I use my brake lights on my car, I expect the following cars to slow down to avoid a crash. Don't you?

I have no idea why anyone would make this assumption. OP didn't. He simply stated that IF the trailing cyclist kept going at the fast rate of speed, it would cause a problem. Solution: USE THE FRIGGIN' HAND SIGNAL TO TELL HIM TO SLOW DOWN.

This really is not an uncertain or difficult situation. I have no idea why an experienced cyclist would even be uncertain or have to ask how to deal with it or label this situation as the subject line does.

Last edited by Camilo; 06-05-12 at 12:36 PM.
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Old 06-05-12, 01:19 PM
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In this situation I would move to the middle of the MUP and adjust my speed as necessary so that I did not pass both peds at the same time. After I were by them both, I would move to the right of the path to allow the cyclist behind me to pass on my left if they chose to pass. I would expect the cyclist behind me to match my speed until the situation were safe to execute a pass because this is how I would expect the situation to play out if I were the faster cyclist.
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Old 06-06-12, 11:16 AM
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Average cyclists-and motorist-DON'T USE OR KNOW FORMAL HAND SIGNALS!
I'm old-61- I vaguely remember car stop/slow hand signal- left hand out window pointing down-about 30 degrees or so relative to perpendicular(I think- haven't used them in 45 years). Don't know what bike signals are-perhaps the same??- but since I don't know it-and 95% of cars bikes don't- pointless to use it.

I do know how to yell- SLOWING DOWN
I take some of that back-I do use the "turning left signal"-pointing left- when I'm turing left-so I guess I do use one signal-always very carefully-some car mirror might take my arm off
Yeah hand signals are dead-can't say I have every seen anyone-other than my own left turn-use them-not in 45 years.
Charlie
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Old 06-07-12, 07:00 AM
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Originally Posted by commodorefork
Sounds like a crash in the making.

First, where is your bell/siren for alerting the pedestrians that you're about to pass? As you pointed out, if one of the walkers moves out of line while you're passing it could result in an accident.

If I were the rider going 10mph, I would stop and let the other cyclist pass. I wouldn't assume that he's going to observe any form of courtesy by slowing down . . . Take action yourself to prevent a wreck. That's my take.
That is my take on the situation I may roll up behind the pedestrian and shield it from the 20 mph rider
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Old 06-07-12, 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted by phoebeisis
Average cyclists-and motorist-DON'T USE OR KNOW FORMAL HAND SIGNALS!
I'm old-61- I vaguely remember car stop/slow hand signal- left hand out window pointing down-about 30 degrees or so relative to perpendicular(I think- haven't used them in 45 years). Don't know what bike signals are-perhaps the same??- but since I don't know it-and 95% of cars bikes don't- pointless to use it.

I do know how to yell- SLOWING DOWN
I take some of that back-I do use the "turning left signal"-pointing left- when I'm turing left-so I guess I do use one signal-always very carefully-some car mirror might take my arm off
Yeah hand signals are dead-can't say I have every seen anyone-other than my own left turn-use them-not in 45 years.
Charlie
Interesting - people around here use the common left and right turn hand signals all the time (most use a straight right arm for right turn rather than the older, left arm bent at right angle upwards.).

As for the slow/stop signal, every local group ride I ride in, formal or informal (mostly informal), the slowing signal is very common. Even if it isn't, it's certainly universally understood:

Lower hand with straight arm (either right or left) to about 1/3 - 1/2 above straight down. Direct palm rearwards. If you want to emphasize it, gesture with that downward hand moving it forward and backward vigorously. I don't know of anyone who would misunderstand that signal, even if they've never seen it before - same reason the straight right arm is the better signal for a right hand turn - who can misunderstand you're pointing to the right?

Last edited by Camilo; 06-08-12 at 06:23 PM.
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Old 06-07-12, 03:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Camilo
Interesting - people around here use the common left and right turn hand signals all the time (most use a straight right arm for right turn rather than the older, left arm bent at right angle upwards.).

As for the slow/stop signal, every local group ride I ride in, formal or informal (mostly informal), the slowing signal is very common. Even if it isn't, it's certainly universally understood:

Lower hand with straight arm (either right or left) to about 1/3 - 1/2 above straight down. Direct palm rearwards. If you want to emphasize it, gesture with that downward hand moving it forward and backward vigorously. I don't know of anyone who would misunderstand that signal, even if they've never seen it before - same reason the straight right arm is the better signal for a right hand turn - who can misunderstand you're pointing to the right?

Right. and even if you don't know what they mean. Someone is waving their arms about in front of you. That should indicate that you should slow down and figure out what is going on before going around them.
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Old 06-07-12, 04:38 PM
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Maybe stop and watch the accident instead of being part of it**********

Last edited by Booger1; 06-07-12 at 04:41 PM.
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Old 06-07-12, 05:43 PM
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Thanks everyone for your perspectives. Here's a bit more detail:-
The guy behind me came up so fast that by the time I realized he was there, I did not have time to brake or stop to avoid the pedestrian in front of me. I already rang my bell several seconds before. If I had used my hand to signal the fast rider to slow down he would have just plowed into my arm. So the choices were (i) to go to the left of them (that means riding into the river) (ii) go with original intention and pass between the pedestrians but change my line so I maximize room for the fast guy, (iii) ignore the fast guy and just pull to the middle of the MUP so he plows into the river or the pedestrians or me. I did (ii) and went close. The rider at the back presumably got out his feeler gauges and quickly checked his clearance each side as went through. It was dark.
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Old 06-07-12, 05:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Digital_Cowboy
. . . .

As I first said (at least to me) "shared/multi-use" path means that everyone can use the path equally. And if one persons use of the path interferes with another person's usage of the path than that first person is wrong.
Some drivers have a similar attitude about sharing the road with cyclists.
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Old 06-07-12, 06:11 PM
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I don't ride on MUPs, ever. For this very reason.
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Old 06-08-12, 06:25 AM
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So fast guy just blew by everyone in the dark.
You moved to the middle-biased your line so fast guy could pass you on whatever side Aussies pass-and he shaved everyone.
Yeah- if someone is doing 20mph on a multiuse -walker- lane at night- he probably isn't suddenly going to get smart and slow waaaay down.

On the signals-I can't remember seeing anyone use them-
Not on the multiuse lane on the Mississippi river levee that I ride everyday- or the streets I ride to get to the levee.
I signal for my left turn on the streets- but that is it.
The fast guys on the levee will YELL LEFT- usually 1 second before they pass-walkers or riders- but I've never seen then signal.
Of course they are frequently in a line-going 20+mph-so not likely someone is going to pass them.
I must admit-when I pass walkers-I yell"passing slowly on your left" maybe 3 seconds before pass- but I don't signal left turn-just look back-to bike riderts who might be overtaking me. I do get into the left lane early-waaaay early.

The slow-car driving signal- I remmeber as you describe-left arm straight kinda pointing down- but at a angle down-couldn't be otherwise in a car since the door has some thickness.
And yes right turn was left arm bent 90 degrees pointing up-maybe 5% of driveres would remember that-wonder if it is still on driver's test?
Left turn-obvious.

What is the "official" bike right turn signal-right arm out?? or old car based one-pointing up

Thanks
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Old 06-08-12, 08:09 AM
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Originally Posted by SpecialX
Or just ride in the damn grass when you go past the pedestrians...
I did that on the NOLA Levee MUP a few weeks ago. 3 lardasses were waddling side by side taking up the entire path...never mind the broken yellow line down the center that should tell you that there are lanes. They were headed in the same direction I was and had no idea I was there. Rather than alert them to my presence and watch in wonderment at the stupid reaction that would surely ensue, I slowed to 8-10 MPH and swung out well wide through the grass. I guess the noise of my bike caught one of the heifer's attention. She stepped right and wheeled around. She swung her arm out as she did and hit the curve of my handlebar. Stupid hurts.
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Old 06-08-12, 08:13 AM
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Originally Posted by weshigh
Right. and even if you don't know what they mean. Someone is waving their arms about in front of you. That should indicate that you should slow down and figure out what is going on before going around them.

I love that magic word.
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Old 06-08-12, 08:15 AM
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Originally Posted by dwellman
I don't ride on MUPs, ever. For this very reason.
I prefer not too, but the road riding opportunities in this area are very limited due to the poor road conditions and poor traffic planning.
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Old 06-08-12, 01:57 PM
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I ride the levee everyday-literally everyday.
As you found out-plenty of walkers up there-and they really aren't aware of any etiquette- not meaness just ignorance.
Walkers just wander about- just as you describe. Some slow bike riders ride side by side taking up the entire path-both lanes.It isn't meaness-just ignorance.Not the "this is my road get the F off-" you occasionally get from a car driver-just unaware.
I actually ride the levee(not the path much)-doing 10 climbs upriver then 10 downriver -at a gentle angle angling across 70 yards or so to reach the top.

It is a nice path- frequently there is a little breeze-fair amount of wildlife when the river is up-nice ride,pretty safe in daytime-maybe not so great in some areas at night.Levee cops go by every 30 minutes during the day.
Charlie
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Old 06-08-12, 02:33 PM
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This definitely is a delicate situation. Frankly, I would not attempt to pass the pedestrians; that would be bad form. However, this is what I would do in regards to the 20 mph cyclist, who really ought to know better than to be riding at those speeds on a MUP.

1) Come to an abrupt stop.
2) Dismount and park your bike across the entire width of the MUP, effectively blocking further egress.
3) As the other cyclist approaches, put both hands up in the air as in a stop signal.
4) As you raise your hands, yell, "HALT, CRIMINAL!" at the top of your lungs. Stare intensely straight ahead as you do this - do not make eye contact with the other cyclist.

The category 6 speed demon will have no choice but to come to a complete stop in front of you, and a collision between cyclist and pedestrian will have been narrowly avoided.
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Old 06-08-12, 03:07 PM
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Cellery
"HALT CRIMINAL" ha,ha -great stuff!!
I like your style-suspect you are kidding putting us on- but I like your style anyway.
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Old 06-08-12, 06:31 PM
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Originally Posted by phoebeisis
...On the signals-I can't remember seeing anyone use them-
Not on the multiuse lane on the Mississippi river levee that I ride everyday- or the streets I ride to get to the levee.
I signal for my left turn on the streets- but that is it.
The fast guys on the levee will YELL LEFT- usually 1 second before they pass-walkers or riders- but I've never seen then signal.
Of course they are frequently in a line-going 20+mph-so not likely someone is going to pass them.
I must admit-when I pass walkers-I yell"passing slowly on your left" maybe 3 seconds before pass- but I don't signal left turn-just look back-to bike riderts who might be overtaking me. I do get into the left lane early-waaaay early.
...
Oh, I wsn't saying I see people (or do so myself) using "turn" signals to pass on an MUP - just when making actual turns.

Don't get me started on the methods of yelling out when passing bikes or pedestrians. I get so tired of shouting - and half the time I can't be heard, usually because of traffic noise on adjoining streets or highways, sometimes because of headphones. I just get tired of yelling, and will only do so if I can't actually get by. I will slow to pedestrian friendly speed whenever necessary though, rather than yelling.
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