Was I wrong to yell?
06-13-12, 07:22 AM
#1
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Was I wrong to yell?
Moving along at 22 mph on a 55 mph road, a van approaches me from behind. Passes me, cuts me off and proceeds to immediately turn on their blinker, and immediately starts to slow down. I catch up to her *very* quickly, slow down to a stop along her passenger side rear quarter panel. Said driver has came to a complete stop as well. I don't pass for fear of a right hook (and illegal to pass on the right, especially when the vehicle is turning), but I'm getting pi$$ed because the driver is not completing the right turn and we have traffic behind us. I yell out 'wtf go!'. So the driver completes the turn, all the while I can see the lady throw her hands up out of frustration. I continue forward while she slows down on her turn, rolls down the window and screams at me 'i was giving you the right of way you a$$!'. What a strange confrontation. I am used to people passing me up and immediately turning in front of me. I haven't been right hooked so far, and don't want to be right hooked in the future, which is why I didn't even TRY to pass this lady up. Was I correct telling her to friggin go? It was out of courtesy that she shouldn't have passed me up that close to her turn in the first place, correct? It was out of law (and safety) that I didn't pass her on the right as she was in the middle of a turn - when she has a blinker on! I don't have a death wish.
Edit: right away... ooops... I meant right 'of way' :-) I'm tired this morning.
Edit: right away... ooops... I meant right 'of way' :-) I'm tired this morning.
Last edited by kevmk81; 06-13-12 at 07:46 AM.
06-13-12, 07:26 AM
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Were you in the lane or on the shoulder?
06-13-12, 07:43 AM
#3
You gonna eat that?
Assuming you were taking the lane, when she said she was giving you ROW, you should have replied that the right way to do that was to move in behind you, the cyclist, and wait until you go by before making her turn. If you were in the bike lane, though, she kind of was right; a motor vehicle is supposed to yield to cyclists in the bike lane. If it was a non-bike lane shoulder, she's still right to make sure the shoulder is clear before she moves into it.
If you were in a shoulder/bike lane, though, it simply points to one of the problems with that type of infrastructure: It is not always clear who has the ROW. If both people yield ROW to the other person, you end up with a situation like you experienced. If neither one yields, we'd be reading a linked article about you right now.
Assuming you were taking the lane, I think she was technically right, but you did the wise thing by waiting because that is the type of situation where most of the time the driver will ignore the cyclist.
If you were in a shoulder/bike lane, though, it simply points to one of the problems with that type of infrastructure: It is not always clear who has the ROW. If both people yield ROW to the other person, you end up with a situation like you experienced. If neither one yields, we'd be reading a linked article about you right now.
Assuming you were taking the lane, I think she was technically right, but you did the wise thing by waiting because that is the type of situation where most of the time the driver will ignore the cyclist.
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I stop for people / whose right of way I honor / but not for no one.
Originally Posted by bragi 
"However, it's never a good idea to overgeneralize."
I stop for people / whose right of way I honor / but not for no one.
Originally Posted by bragi "However, it's never a good idea to overgeneralize."
06-13-12, 07:43 AM
#4
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Thread Starter
In the lane, as I usually do, taking the lane, about 2 feet left of the white line. When she passed me, I was in the shoulder right near the rear quarter panel of her van. I didn't have much time to react, slow down & do my emergency unclip routine (I like to unclip both feet in these situations).
06-13-12, 07:49 AM
#5
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Assuming you were taking the lane, when she said she was giving you ROW, you should have replied that the right way to do that was to move in behind you, the cyclist, and wait until you go by before making her turn. If you were in the bike lane, though, she kind of was right; a motor vehicle is supposed to yield to cyclists in the bike lane. If it was a non-bike lane shoulder, she's still right to make sure the shoulder is clear before she moves into it.
If you were in a shoulder/bike lane, though, it simply points to one of the problems with that type of infrastructure: It is not always clear who has the ROW. If both people yield ROW to the other person, you end up with a situation like you experienced. If neither one yields, we'd be reading a linked article about you right now.
Assuming you were taking the lane, I think she was technically right, but you did the wise thing by waiting because that is the type of situation where most of the time the driver will ignore the cyclist.
If you were in a shoulder/bike lane, though, it simply points to one of the problems with that type of infrastructure: It is not always clear who has the ROW. If both people yield ROW to the other person, you end up with a situation like you experienced. If neither one yields, we'd be reading a linked article about you right now.
Assuming you were taking the lane, I think she was technically right, but you did the wise thing by waiting because that is the type of situation where most of the time the driver will ignore the cyclist.
06-13-12, 07:52 AM
#6
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Usually in a situation like the OP's, if possible, I try to position myself behind the motorist where they can see me in their center rear view mirror, or in their driver's mirror. So far, all the motorists I've encountered in this fashion have figured out rather quickly to just make the turn like if they just had another motor vehicle behind them.
06-13-12, 07:58 AM
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If you are on a 55mph road, going 22mph, I'd imagine that many cars would pass you. When I can't keep up with the speed limit, I move as far to the side as possible, unless I need to make a left turn. I don't like to take entire lanes under the speed limit, its just unsafe.
06-13-12, 08:09 AM
#8
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If you are on a 55mph road, going 22mph, I'd imagine that many cars would pass you. When I can't keep up with the speed limit, I move as far to the side as possible, unless I need to make a left turn. I don't like to take entire lanes under the speed limit, its just unsafe.
06-13-12, 08:11 AM
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Fair enough, fair enough. Different strokes for different folks (and roads). I think as long as it all worked out in the end, maybe yelling was beneficial.
I don't like to be buzzed by drivers not slowing down and not attempting to move over, which is what they would do if I weren't taking the lane. If something were to cause me to fall to the left, I won't be around anymore because they'll use my body as a 55 mph speed bump.
06-13-12, 08:18 AM
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06-13-12, 08:45 AM
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But in some other states motor vehicles are prohibited from merging into the bike lane and are supposed to make their right turn across it when safe to do so. Not sure what the Illinois rule is regarding bike lanes and right turns.
06-13-12, 08:50 AM
#12
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Unfortunately the laws with regard to bike lanes vary by state. In California when there's a bike lane present the vehicle code requires motor vehicles to first merge into the bike lane when safe to do so and then make their right turn from the bike lane. So in this situation the driver should have merged into the bike lane behind the cyclist and then made her turn.
But in some other states motor vehicles are prohibited from merging into the bike lane and are supposed to make their right turn across it when safe to do so. Not sure what the Illinois rule is regarding bike lanes and right turns.
But in some other states motor vehicles are prohibited from merging into the bike lane and are supposed to make their right turn across it when safe to do so. Not sure what the Illinois rule is regarding bike lanes and right turns.
06-13-12, 08:59 AM
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Kind of like this?
Many motorists do not think ahead, and slowing down is not an option, the result is stuff like this.
Many motorists do not think ahead, and slowing down is not an option, the result is stuff like this.
06-13-12, 08:59 AM
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Unfortunately the laws with regard to bike lanes vary by state. In California when there's a bike lane present the vehicle code requires motor vehicles to first merge into the bike lane when safe to do so and then make their right turn from the bike lane. So in this situation the driver should have merged into the bike lane behind the cyclist and then made her turn.
But in some other states motor vehicles are prohibited from merging into the bike lane and are supposed to make their right turn across it when safe to do so. Not sure what the Illinois rule is regarding bike lanes and right turns.
But in some other states motor vehicles are prohibited from merging into the bike lane and are supposed to make their right turn across it when safe to do so. Not sure what the Illinois rule is regarding bike lanes and right turns.
As a cyclist I would not have passed on her right, but would have stayed behind her... and likely in my case, would have sounded the airzounds for the stupid move in the first place.
On a 55MPH road, it would be highly unlikely that I would take the lane. That sets up a whole set of other issues... and unless there is no other choice, such as lane too narrow to share, I just wouldn't take the lane.
06-13-12, 09:19 AM
#15
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Yep, exactly what happened, except the van driver turned a little sooner than the vehicle in your video... but the exact thing happened. I didn't have time to stop fully behind her vehicle, and stopped near the rear/right of her vehicle. It's 55 mph, but going 22 mph, you quickly catch up to drivers that are turning, especially when they do it right in front of you.
06-13-12, 09:20 AM
#16
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I believe only Oregon has this strange crossing law. Otherwise I fully agree, she should have merged behind the cyclist, that would have made everything perfectly clear... the van driver set up the awkward situation by passing, then trying to turn right and then stopping. She knew she was going to turn right, and tried to "beat the train," thus setting up the "who goes first" problem.
As a cyclist I would not have passed on her right, but would have stayed behind her... and likely in my case, would have sounded the airzounds for the stupid move in the first place.
On a 55MPH road, it would be highly unlikely that I would take the lane. That sets up a whole set of other issues... and unless there is no other choice, such as lane too narrow to share, I just wouldn't take the lane.
As a cyclist I would not have passed on her right, but would have stayed behind her... and likely in my case, would have sounded the airzounds for the stupid move in the first place.
On a 55MPH road, it would be highly unlikely that I would take the lane. That sets up a whole set of other issues... and unless there is no other choice, such as lane too narrow to share, I just wouldn't take the lane.
06-13-12, 09:21 AM
#17
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While yelling is satisfying, I've found that offering a Death Stare seems to have a better effect.
Case in point, my son and I were taking the lane single file as we approached an intersection. Guy in a BMW blows by us, swerves in front, and then is about to right hook my son ( and both my son and I were decked out in full Fredly regalia ). He slams on his brakes as his bumper is inches from my kid - and then proceeds to start yelling at him. I motioned my son to complete his crossing while I planted myself in front of the car, saying nothing, but staring daggers.
The guy shuts up, apparently realizes he nearly killed a 10-year-old, and mumbles an apology. I continued to stare for a while just to get the point across, and then moved on.
It's pretty much guaranteed if I had started screaming at him that he would have taken nothing away from the situation other than *****ing to his friends about cyclists.
Case in point, my son and I were taking the lane single file as we approached an intersection. Guy in a BMW blows by us, swerves in front, and then is about to right hook my son ( and both my son and I were decked out in full Fredly regalia ). He slams on his brakes as his bumper is inches from my kid - and then proceeds to start yelling at him. I motioned my son to complete his crossing while I planted myself in front of the car, saying nothing, but staring daggers.
The guy shuts up, apparently realizes he nearly killed a 10-year-old, and mumbles an apology. I continued to stare for a while just to get the point across, and then moved on.
It's pretty much guaranteed if I had started screaming at him that he would have taken nothing away from the situation other than *****ing to his friends about cyclists.
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06-13-12, 09:37 AM
#18
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I don't like to be buzzed by drivers not slowing down and not attempting to move over, which is what they would do if I weren't taking the lane. If something were to cause me to fall to the left, I won't be around anymore because they'll use my body as a 55 mph speed bump.
Every time I moved over in the past, I have ended up getting hit. So that is why I 'take the lane'. Especially if a passing lane is available. Because if a passing lane is available, motorists should use that when passing a cyclist. Instead of passing so close, that could reach out n' touch you.
06-13-12, 09:47 AM
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While yelling is satisfying, I've found that offering a Death Stare seems to have a better effect.
Case in point, my son and I were taking the lane single file as we approached an intersection. Guy in a BMW blows by us, swerves in front, and then is about to right hook my son ( and both my son and I were decked out in full Fredly regalia ). He slams on his brakes as his bumper is inches from my kid - and then proceeds to start yelling at him. I motioned my son to complete his crossing while I planted myself in front of the car, saying nothing, but staring daggers.
The guy shuts up, apparently realizes he nearly killed a 10-year-old, and mumbles an apology. I continued to stare for a while just to get the point across, and then moved on.
It's pretty much guaranteed if I had started screaming at him that he would have taken nothing away from the situation other than *****ing to his friends about cyclists.
Case in point, my son and I were taking the lane single file as we approached an intersection. Guy in a BMW blows by us, swerves in front, and then is about to right hook my son ( and both my son and I were decked out in full Fredly regalia ). He slams on his brakes as his bumper is inches from my kid - and then proceeds to start yelling at him. I motioned my son to complete his crossing while I planted myself in front of the car, saying nothing, but staring daggers.
The guy shuts up, apparently realizes he nearly killed a 10-year-old, and mumbles an apology. I continued to stare for a while just to get the point across, and then moved on.
It's pretty much guaranteed if I had started screaming at him that he would have taken nothing away from the situation other than *****ing to his friends about cyclists.
06-13-12, 10:38 AM
#20
You gonna eat that?
After re-reading, my suggestion: Next time, veer to the left tail light so she knows she will not be passed on the right. If there is room, pass her on the left. In sauerwald's video, while he doesn't veer fully to the left, his positioning makes it pretty clear that he is not going to pass on the right, and the car completes its turn. Lane position is a subtle but effective means of communication.
__________________
I stop for people / whose right of way I honor / but not for no one.
Originally Posted by bragi "However, it's never a good idea to overgeneralize."
I stop for people / whose right of way I honor / but not for no one.
Originally Posted by bragi "However, it's never a good idea to overgeneralize."
Last edited by Doohickie; 06-13-12 at 10:41 AM.
06-13-12, 10:40 AM
#21
You gonna eat that?
Unfortunately the laws with regard to bike lanes vary by state. In California when there's a bike lane present the vehicle code requires motor vehicles to first merge into the bike lane when safe to do so and then make their right turn from the bike lane. So in this situation the driver should have merged into the bike lane behind the cyclist and then made her turn.
But in some other states motor vehicles are prohibited from merging into the bike lane and are supposed to make their right turn across it when safe to do so. Not sure what the Illinois rule is regarding bike lanes and right turns.
But in some other states motor vehicles are prohibited from merging into the bike lane and are supposed to make their right turn across it when safe to do so. Not sure what the Illinois rule is regarding bike lanes and right turns.
__________________
I stop for people / whose right of way I honor / but not for no one.
Originally Posted by bragi "However, it's never a good idea to overgeneralize."
I stop for people / whose right of way I honor / but not for no one.
Originally Posted by bragi "However, it's never a good idea to overgeneralize."
06-13-12, 11:26 AM
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After re-reading, my suggestion: Next time, veer to the left tail light so she knows she will not be passed on the right. If there is room, pass her on the left. In sauerwald's video, while he doesn't veer fully to the left, his positioning makes it pretty clear that he is not going to pass on the right, and the car completes its turn. Lane position is a subtle but effective means of communication.
06-13-12, 11:54 AM
#23
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Not only would I have yelled, I would have pointed at her as I called into question her parentage.
06-13-12, 12:03 PM
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Sam thing happened to me today as well. Guy sped passed me, slowed down to turn and realized he didn't have as much room as he thought to turn. I recognized it and went to his right. Not the safest thing but I think our non-verbal communication worked out pretty good. As I reviewed my GoPro footage I saw that he even had a cell phone in his hands as he was driving. Today must be my lucky day.
06-13-12, 12:31 PM
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That situation is super frustrating. If they paid attention then it would be no issue. Instead they cause themselves, you and anyone else following to stop in the middle of the road. If there is room or I can tell they are going to do that, I'll move left and pass on their left side. Often times they/you are much to close to them to make that happen. I have continued before after they stop but I never feel safe doing it and always regret it.
