FXjohn

B-b-but...I've been told that the war in Iraq is all about oil and that we're going to just steal it all from the Iraqis....

nick burns

Yeah, but to do what? There can only be so many "skilled" occupations.

I'm not saying 70 grand/year. Just a liveable wage & some hope to be able to survive during retirement is all. If person breaks their back their whole lifetime working for a company they shouldn't later be tossed aside like broken, obsolete equipment.

FXjohn

If you work somewhere breaking your back your whole life you have a vesting (pension, usually starts accruing after 5 years) and you have a 401K. You have paid into social security this whole time also. What more did you want?

nick burns

Yeah, that would be perfectly acceptable, providing your company offered a pension plan and/or you earned enough to be able to invest in a 401k.

Otherwise, I don't think I would look forward to relying on social security to survive during retirement.

Ebbtide

What is a livable wage in you opinion? I know plenty of families that make less than 30k a year and manage fine with a couple of kids. I know others that make over 100k and complain just like you (no offense intended).

Oh, and one more thing to ad, people work 50 plus years, if they can't save enough to live off of during an average of 5 years of retirement they have done something very wrong.

Ebbtide

Build your skill level and move to a job that offers a retirement package. It is still very competitive out there, no reason to settle.

nick burns

That's a pretty good question. I don't know to be quite honest. It may be dependent to a certain extent on where you live. I do believe however, that the current minimum wage of $5.15 would not qualify.
Up until a few years ago I lived on less than 30k, but I don't have kids. I did not lead an extravagant lifestyle by any means, and it was a stuggle at times to pay the bills on time.

It is pretty apparent that many people in this country are not being paid a liveable salary. Wouldn't you agree?

FXjohn

Even "evil" Walmart pays 9 dollars something an hour, and you don't have to breathe factory fumes.
I would be for raising the min wage, but that would probably encurage employers to pay illegals under the table.

I say employers who hire illegals...lock em up!! It's their responsibilty to know who they're paying.

nick burns

You said it brother!

Ebbtide

I don't know. My 15 year old Son makes 5.15 an hour. Should he be making more? Are you willing to pay $9.00 for a #3 with a diet? Does he deserve to be making more, he does not know how to do anything and he has no skills?

Minimum wage is not meant to be a living wage. A 22 year old making 8.00 and hour renting videos and living in his parents basement is he making a living wage? Is the high school drop out living with his Baby's momma making $11.00 an hour making a living wage?

A living wage is purely subjective. I would love to make over 30K a year at my job. I do not, but I own a home, have an education, a comfortable net worth (imo) and love to ride bikes. Am I living, yes. Do I earn a wage, yes. Do I struggle to make ends meet, sure everyone does.

It comes down to priorities. I want to ride bikes so I do not have cable. I want to ride bikes so I drive a 10 year old car. I live pay check to pay check, pay my taxes, and put a little away for the rainy days.
IF I want to make more money I could, but money is not what makes ehenz go round.

Karldar

I worked at WM (for 2 weeks-couldn't stand it any longer than that) and I only got $7.50/hr

I am now employed by an auto manufacturer(non-union) The reason is simple-money, which leads to peace of mind for my wife and I. I make more money now than I have ever made(approx. 50-60k/yr) and am well on my way to being debt-free. If I could work at a more environmentally friendly job and still pay the bills, I would. Maybe I'll get there someday.

norton

What's a #3 with a diet?

Ebbtide

Well, it aint Surf and Turf Lol



Quaterpounder with Cheese, large Fry?

norton

DOH!! .....(I've led a sheltered life)

Dahon.Steve

We still need foreign oil or the price of ours will go through the roof. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think close to 40% of our oil comes from overseas.

nick burns

Well, fortunately I'd never go near a #3 w/a diet (shudder). But I do feel that people working full time jobs deserve to be paid a salary upon which they can live above poverty line, no matter if their job is considered "unskilled" labor. I'm sure there have been studies to determine what this would be. The person behind the video counter is serving a purpose in this society and deserves to be treated fairly. If a person chooses to accept a low paying job when they could easily go out and earn more, that's fine, but there are people who don't have the luxury of that choice. Would I be willing to pay more for a product or service if I knew the reason was to pay the staff a decent salary & not to pad the owner's pockets? You bet I would.

randya

It was about 28% in 2000.

https://www.mnforsustain.org/energy_i...htm#Figure%201

Ebbtide

Like who?

This is where the discussion usually leads, to which I reply "nonsense". We all have choices and complete control over our income and expenses. I can not think of one instances where a person did not have the choice to find a better paying job, increase their education, or save money.

Ebbtide

Sorry to ask (I might seem I'm badgering you , trust me I'm not) but what is considered "poverty line". At what dollar figure do we all agree upon?

Why do you feel they "deserve" the salary, did they earn it? Did they make an investment in the business, did they take the risk, put up capital, scrounge for investors?

Fortunately we live in a caring society and nobody dies from hunger, lack of shelter/clothing, or misses out on medical care. And the money to do these things come from business, you and me. So in essence, everybody already gets a living wage weather you work or not. It guess being "poor" depends on if you drive and Escalade or not, even then you still might be poor.

nick burns

Yeah, you're right. Those who can barely scratch together enough money to afford to get to work in the first place and take care of a family or uninsured sick relatives- they're just lazy. They should just uproot & move. Even if they don't have the money to do that. Borrow it. Same with those who may not have the capacity for further education. Yeah right.
This country has plenty of hard working people with situations like that and worse. They are citizens of this country and deserve just like the rest of us to live a decent life with decent pay. You must be pretty sheltered. Although my girlfriend is a social worker so maybe I just see and hear about more often.

As stated prevously, I don't know the level that constitutes poverty line.

Every hard working citizen contributing to society in the US deserves to earn a decent living. No matter what job they are in. To me, that is one of the foundations of this country.

Ebbtide

I don't think you are listening to me, or your girlfriend (although I may not have been very clear), show your girlfriend my responses and she will agree with me 100%, guaranteed.

I've been an inner city social worker for 15 years and feel I know what I'm saying. People always have choices, making the right choices leads to a better life. If you do not make the right choices there are safety nets. I see terms like "poverty line, homeless, and living wage" thrown about very often by those not in the field and they have no idea what they are. A few post back you we were complaining that living off 30k is hard. Well I work with families that make 20k and are healthy, my question is where do we draw the line between personal responsibility and giving a free ride to anyone who can stay awake for 8 hours straight? I say let the market dictate what a wage should be (with minimal intrusion from the feds).

Sorry if I came off like an sheltered person, nothing could be further from the truth in this regard.

That would be communism, but we can discuss this down the dial.

nick burns

Well, I'll just have to respectfully disagree with you, cause we ain't gettin nowhere here

And trust me, you don't to want to get my gf involved in this conversation (yeah, I know, I brought her up first). If you think you disagree with me, trust me you'll butt heads with her completely. She's the one who has helped shape my opinions on a lot of these issues. I used not give a second thought to these things. I can imagine you've seen some pretty rough stuff in you're 15 years in the field. Some of the stories she tells me makes me wonder how she can keep going to work day after day. Thankfully there are people like you & her.

webist

My thninking is that $65 per hour should fall within the range of adequately paid with enough to set aside for retirement.

FXjohn

65 dollars an hour/130k per year with bennies for unskilled labor?
If yoiu EARNED that much money i doubt if you'd throw that figure around.

Lone_rider

Hi I work for Ford Motor Co. Don't hate me for It my kids need shelter and food.