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What's with drivers not slowing for cyclists crossing?

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What's with drivers not slowing for cyclists crossing?

Old 09-26-12, 01:45 PM
  #26  
iheartbacon
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Originally Posted by achoo View Post
Grow a brain.
My apologies sir, I could not resist.

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Old 09-26-12, 02:31 PM
  #27  
adablduya
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Originally Posted by achoo View Post
Really?



Right here:



That bilge was in response to this:



In that post, I never mentioned one word about anything except the fact that in many states, a person riding a bicycle in a crosswalk is legally a pedestrian.

So, what orifice did you pull your straw man argument "you'll ride right into that street / cross-walk with the belief that that motorist is going to submit the right-of-way to you" out of, anyway?

Well, I guess that clears up which orifice you pulled your straw man out of.

My response to your pejorative imperative? Grow a brain.

so, what was your point in mentioning that if it wasn't a position you supported ?

i'm simply challenging the naiive position you thus seem to have that just because a law exists allowing it doesn't make it a wise thing to choose to do.

and my response to you is: keep hiding behind that keyboard. it's the only way you'll continue to have the illusion of being a tough guy with your insults.
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Old 09-26-12, 02:37 PM
  #28  
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must be regional, we have the opposite problem here. we stop and then they stop even though they aren't supposed to.
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Old 09-26-12, 04:37 PM
  #29  
B. Carfree
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Originally Posted by bandit1990 View Post
Let me guess...car free? There is no such thing as an entitled motorist, except in the vision of the self-proclaimed "bikes rule" class. The roads are the roads, plain and simple. Cars outweigh bikes. It's the standard "bigger mode of tranportation wins". You can cry foul all you want, and you won't get disagreement from me...but cyclists need to understand that mass wins; mass is the transport of choice right now. I will ride my bike in a manner that doesn't interfere with motorists, because in doing so I get to live another day not spent in the hospital. If you want to joust with them, good luck. Just understand that you are going to be on the receiving end, and not giving anything.
So I guess you would be okay with my decision to take out those pesky cars and SUVs with my pull trailer when I've got 80,000 pounds of stuff rolling down the road. After all, those lightweight four-wheels foolishly chose to joust with the big rigs.

Sheesh. Might-makes-right is for barbarians. I hope we can move on from that sort of thing and become a civilization, but that is a tall order as long as people like you keep the dogma of bullying alive and rationalized.

By the way, I do indeed drive 80,000 pounds of pure misery when needed and I don't have a might-makes-right attitude. Rather, I believe that my higher level of training and the increased risk to others that my vehicle poses require me to exercise extra vigilance and caution, not less.
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Old 09-27-12, 08:30 AM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by bandit1990 View Post
No, if bikers observed the rules of the road, and didn't put themselves in situations that caused motorists to "freak" when seeing a cyclist, there would be no problem. What country are you from? I'm not going to get into a FRAP arugment here, but really -- just think about it.


Do you happen to think that all motorists follow the rules of the road as well? Just a few days ago I was passed by a small pickup weaving in and out of traffic, doing 60+mph in a 30mph zone, one mistake by this motorist can result in more collateral damage than any cyclist could cause.

I ride very predictably, and motorists do not "freak" around me, they're main concern is how quickly can they get by me, so they can get to the next red stoplight as quickly as possible, and I happen to reside in the good 'ol U.S of A.
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Old 09-27-12, 10:28 AM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by Bumer View Post
Sometimes I ride local paved trails (MUPs?). When these trails cross local roads they all have cross walks and "Yield for pedestrians" signs. What surprises me is that although lots of drivers slow down for cyclists, lots of them don't even try and just fly through.

Am I missing something here and drivers not supposed to yield to cyclists same way as to pedestrians?

I'm telling you, these f$%#ers just blasted through with no intention of slowing down. Good thing I am usually waiting to make sure drivers to slow down, before clossing.


You wonder why they don't, its for same reason many of us cyclist don't stop at all posted stop signs or don't wait for the green light to cross an intersection. It's simply because at that very moment there are no police around to enforce the laws.
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Old 09-27-12, 07:13 PM
  #32  
achoo
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Originally Posted by adablduya View Post
so, what was your point in mentioning that if it wasn't a position you supported ?
Because the poster who claimed that you had to get off your bike to be a "pedestrian" was wrong. I even cited VA law proving the contrary.

i'm simply challenging the naiive position you thus seem to have that just because a law exists allowing it doesn't make it a wise thing to choose to do.
Where did I ever say it was?

Wow, another straw man argument.

For someone who claims to know what a straw man argument is, and has gone so far as to all but say he'd never use one, you sure keep pulling them out of your rectal database.

Do you even know you're doing it?

and my response to you is: keep hiding behind that keyboard. it's the only way you'll continue to have the illusion of being a tough guy with your insults.


First, you're the one who told me to "stick it" after I called you for your first straw man argument. Don't like the results when you get obnoxious? Don't do it.

Second, after saying you knew what a straw man argument is, you grew another one. For someone who claims to know what they are, you sure seem to unknowingly grow straw men faster than some mutant hay field on steroids. I guess I was more correct than I hoped when I told you what you should be growing.

Third, I played college football against guys who played in the NFL. I have a hell of a lot better idea what tough is than you do. You, sir, are a joke.
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Old 09-27-12, 10:56 PM
  #33  
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A straw man, known in the UK as an Aunt Sally, is a type of argument and is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position.[1] To "attack a straw man" is to create the illusion of having refuted a proposition by replacing it with a superficially similar yet unequivalent proposition (the "straw man"), and refuting it, without ever having actually refuted the original position.[1][2]

Origin

The origins of the term are unclear. The usage of the term in rhetoric suggests a human figure made of straw which is easily knocked down or destroyed, such as a military training dummy, scarecrow, or effigy.[3] The rhetorical technique is sometimes called an Aunt Sally in the UK, with reference to a traditional fairground game in which objects are thrown at a fixed target. One common folk etymology is that it refers to men who stood outside courthouses with a straw in their shoe in order to indicate their willingness to be a false witness.[4]
Reasoning

The straw man fallacy occurs in the following pattern of argument:

Person 1 has position X.
Person 2 disregards certain key points of X and instead presents the superficially similar position Y. The position Y is a distorted version of X and can be set up in several ways, including:
Presenting a misrepresentation of the opponent's position.
Quoting an opponent's words out of context i.e. choosing quotations that misrepresent the opponent's actual intentions (see fallacy of quoting out of context).[2]
Presenting someone who defends a position poorly as the defender, then refuting that person's arguments thus giving the appearance that every upholder of that position (and thus the position itself) has been defeated.[1]
Inventing a fictitious persona with actions or beliefs which are then criticized, implying that the person represents a group of whom the speaker is critical.
Oversimplifying an opponent's argument, then attacking this oversimplified version.
Person 2 attacks position Y, concluding that X is false/incorrect/flawed.

This sort of "reasoning" is fallacious because attacking a distorted version of a position fails to constitute an attack on the actual position.
Hell I had to look it up, and I'm not ashamed. Learned something.
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Old 10-04-12, 08:23 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by achoo View Post
Umm, WRONG.

In many states, bicycles in a crosswalk ARE legally pedestrians - even when being ridden:

http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...0+cod+46.2-904
In Ontario (which I meant by "same here"), it is an offense under the Highway Traffic Act to ride a bicycle in a crosswalk....even if the municipality allows bicycles to be ridden on the sidewalks.
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Old 10-15-12, 04:30 AM
  #35  
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It would be fine if every motorist yielded to bicycles. That will never happen IMO. That being the case, the rare ones that do just make things worse, most if the time. Worst I have seen was one fellow stopped to let me cross, but he was only one of thee lanes, and the others were not stopping, so useless gesture. Worse, he was blocking one lane, so traffic was stacking up in the remaining two, so it ended up causing me to wait much longer to cross safely. Motorists demonstrate regularly that they have no clue how to be helpful to cyclists, so I wish they wouldn't even try. What Is most helpful is protection in the median so I only have to wait for one direction at a time.
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Old 10-15-12, 06:54 AM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by Bumer View Post
Sometimes I ride local paved trails (MUPs?). When these trails cross local roads they all have cross walks and "Yield for pedestrians" signs. What surprises me is that although lots of drivers slow down for cyclists, lots of them don't even try and just fly through.

Am I missing something here and drivers not supposed to yield to cyclists same way as to pedestrians?

I'm telling you, these f$%#ers just blasted through with no intention of slowing down. Good thing I am usually waiting to make sure drivers to slow down, before clossing.
If you don't have a stop sign at the cross walk then you can proceed but only when it's safe to do so, which it sounds like you're doing so the rest of this not pointing at you. If the cyclists are just blasting across the cross walk thinking they have the right away and do so in front of a car then the cyclist is just being plain stupid regardless if they have the right away. You may think you have the right to do so but being legally right can get you declared legally dead. Give the motorists some leeway, they can't stop on a dime, and showing courtesy to others goes a long ways even though legally you don't have to, and getting mad about it does nothing for your health and well being.
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