Cyclist charged with assault on rail trail (Vestal, NY)
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Cyclist charged with assault on rail trail (Vestal, NY)
This is a very short, very flat rail trail that gets pretty heavily used. It's less than 2.5 miles long.
I ride on it only occassionally, just to cut through for something different. Probably wont anymore if they put in the 10 mph speed limit. It has the usual problems of all MUPs - people walking without any regard for position on the trail, people walking four abreast, people turning around without looking (on bikes, blades, walking), dog walkers with extendable leashes, little kids riding anywhere while their parents are too busy to bother teaching them to be safe.
https://www.pressconnects.com/article...nclick_check=1
I ride on it only occassionally, just to cut through for something different. Probably wont anymore if they put in the 10 mph speed limit. It has the usual problems of all MUPs - people walking without any regard for position on the trail, people walking four abreast, people turning around without looking (on bikes, blades, walking), dog walkers with extendable leashes, little kids riding anywhere while their parents are too busy to bother teaching them to be safe.
https://www.pressconnects.com/article...nclick_check=1
#2
Half way there
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Durham, NC
Posts: 1,109
Bikes: 69 Hercules, 73 Raleigh Sports, 74 Raliegh Competition, 78 Nishiki Professional, 79 Nishiki International, 83 Colnago Super, 83 Viner Junior
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
Not a lot of details about the incident. The speed limit thing is a knee jerk reaction that I understand, but can't really support because it is not realistically enforceable. It sounds like this one is like most MUPs and so all users have to look out for each other. Pedestrians have to be aware and cyclists need to slow down around them. Those who are self-centered will do what they want speed limit or no.
I rarely ride MUPs when I do, I'm always concerned about pedestrians and runners with their ears filled with their music of choice. It seems to be that if this practice is a factor in collisions they should regulate it too.
-G
I rarely ride MUPs when I do, I'm always concerned about pedestrians and runners with their ears filled with their music of choice. It seems to be that if this practice is a factor in collisions they should regulate it too.
-G
#3
Randomhead
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Happy Valley, Pennsylvania
Posts: 24,398
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked 3,698 Times
in
2,518 Posts
I wouldn't ride on a trail with a 10mph speed limit, that's just ridiculous. I guess that's what they want. If this sort of thing happens around here I will start a campaign where cyclists call the cops any time a motorist looks at them funny. Really sick of municipalities picking on cyclists.
picture accompanying the article shows the victim and sister nearly blocking the trail. Maybe they need to contemplate the notion that there are other users of the trail?
picture accompanying the article shows the victim and sister nearly blocking the trail. Maybe they need to contemplate the notion that there are other users of the trail?
#4
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 3,040
Bikes: Bacchetta Giro, Strada
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
In any event, "assault" requires intent. When you're charged with assault, it means you intended to startle or scare somebody (if you actually hit them that's called battery) -- it's not supposed to happen by accident.
Now, if a cyclist tried to pass them and accidentally collided with them from behind as the story suggests, that wouldn't be called assault -- that would be something else, "failure to yield" or something along those lines.
Was the cyclist attempting to zoom past them to scare them and misjudged? Then that would be assault, but if he also hit them it would be assault and battery? Note that the intent to scare them is crucial -- if there was no intent, then it's not assault.
In short, it's not clear at all what happened.
Of course, it is clear that a 10 mph speed limit probably wouldn't have prevented any of this from happening.
#5
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 124
Bikes: 2011 Trek Rumblefish (FS)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Although not many details to the story, but assault charges are extreme.
Anyone who ever ridden trails like this know that the more people you have, the more careless people tend to get.
By no means that automatically excuses a cyclist - cyclists should be extremely careful on trails like this.
I do like rail trails, because they paved, flat, not bumpy, usually scenic. You can really enjoy your ride.
When I ride, I slow down when approaching anything moving, say something to announce me passing them, and on which side. When I see kids or moms with strollers, I stay away from them as far as I can, and slow down even more.
Anyone who ever ridden trails like this know that the more people you have, the more careless people tend to get.
By no means that automatically excuses a cyclist - cyclists should be extremely careful on trails like this.
I do like rail trails, because they paved, flat, not bumpy, usually scenic. You can really enjoy your ride.
When I ride, I slow down when approaching anything moving, say something to announce me passing them, and on which side. When I see kids or moms with strollers, I stay away from them as far as I can, and slow down even more.
#6
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Bay Area, Calif.
Posts: 7,239
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 659 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 7 Times
in
6 Posts
Agreed. Motorists hit others (whether pedestrians, cyclists, or other motorists) very frequently and are almost never charged with assault. The rare exceptions are when there's a case of road rage and clear indications that the collision (or near collision) was a deliberate act. Seems very unlikely that this was the case in this incident.
#7
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Eugene, Oregon
Posts: 7,048
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 509 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 9 Times
in
8 Posts
Are they going to enforce the 10 mph speed limit for pedestrians too? Heck, even I run faster than 10 mph on those rare occasions that I choose to run. I guess that's a long-winded way of saying 10 mph is more than a little ridiculous as a speed limit.
Perhaps we are overdue for some real road standards on bike paths and MUPs. Many of them clearly need to be widened and partitioned for various users. Of course, if people won't follow whatever rules/laws are put in place to make the paths work, then troubles will continue.
And of course I think we should all follow the kiddie right-of-way unwritten rule. Where else can kids learn to ride or walk without fear of being made into road pizza by some scofflaw motorist? They're children, not small adults. They'll hopefully learn the rules of the road when they are capable, but a typical six-year-old is simply not capable of understanding what is appropriate. Sadly, many adults can't out-think the six-year-olds on the bike paths.
Perhaps we are overdue for some real road standards on bike paths and MUPs. Many of them clearly need to be widened and partitioned for various users. Of course, if people won't follow whatever rules/laws are put in place to make the paths work, then troubles will continue.
And of course I think we should all follow the kiddie right-of-way unwritten rule. Where else can kids learn to ride or walk without fear of being made into road pizza by some scofflaw motorist? They're children, not small adults. They'll hopefully learn the rules of the road when they are capable, but a typical six-year-old is simply not capable of understanding what is appropriate. Sadly, many adults can't out-think the six-year-olds on the bike paths.
#8
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Bastrop Texas
Posts: 4,479
Bikes: Univega, Peu P6, Peu PR-10, Ted Williams, Peu UO-8, Peu UO-18 Mixte, Peu Dolomites
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 966 Post(s)
Liked 1,629 Times
in
1,045 Posts
We probably don't know the whole story but is it a trail for wheels or a pedestrian trail only - How about no running... Even our small town of 5000 has an ordenance againt roller blades and skate boards down town - I don't really have a solution...
Its all a problem of over population any way you look at it...
Once the planet purges itself of more than a few billion people we will probably all be riding horses and mountain bikes or just walking...
Imagine me on a horse again... Look out... You better run...
Its all a problem of over population any way you look at it...
Once the planet purges itself of more than a few billion people we will probably all be riding horses and mountain bikes or just walking...
Imagine me on a horse again... Look out... You better run...
#9
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Naptown
Posts: 1,133
Bikes: NWT 24sp DD; Brompton M6R
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times
in
1 Post
In any event, "assault" requires intent. When you're charged with assault, it means you intended to startle or scare somebody (if you actually hit them that's called battery) -- it's not supposed to happen by accident.
Now, if a cyclist tried to pass them and accidentally collided with them from behind as the story suggests, that wouldn't be called assault -- that would be something else, "failure to yield" or something along those lines.
#10
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlantic Beach Florida
Posts: 1,945
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3776 Post(s)
Liked 1,045 Times
in
791 Posts
Not a lot of details about the incident. The speed limit thing is a knee jerk reaction that I understand, but can't really support because it is not realistically enforceable. It sounds like this one is like most MUPs and so all users have to look out for each other. Pedestrians have to be aware and cyclists need to slow down around them. Those who are self-centered will do what they want speed limit or no.
I rarely ride MUPs when I do, I'm always concerned about pedestrians and runners with their ears filled with their music of choice. It seems to be that if this practice is a factor in collisions they should regulate it too.
-G
I rarely ride MUPs when I do, I'm always concerned about pedestrians and runners with their ears filled with their music of choice. It seems to be that if this practice is a factor in collisions they should regulate it too.
-G
The only way I see to fix this problem is to build bike lanes that are to the standards of roads and not allow other users to walk on, in the same way pedestrians can't walk on major roadways. Figure the odds of that.
#11
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: You have really nice furniture
Posts: 821
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
When are they going to lower the speed limit on streets so cars don't endanger cyclists?
Seriously though.
That trail looks wide enough that two people could walk side by side and a cyclist should be able to get through just fine. I am curious to see/hear more details about what really happened but if the cyclist was at fault then whatever consequences are appropriate I would support. We don't own the trails just like cars don't own the roads. We all have to get along with everyone. There have been many times that I have slowed down significantly on trails so as to not scare/hit/hurt pedestrians. I would expect the same if I were the one walking.
Seriously though.
That trail looks wide enough that two people could walk side by side and a cyclist should be able to get through just fine. I am curious to see/hear more details about what really happened but if the cyclist was at fault then whatever consequences are appropriate I would support. We don't own the trails just like cars don't own the roads. We all have to get along with everyone. There have been many times that I have slowed down significantly on trails so as to not scare/hit/hurt pedestrians. I would expect the same if I were the one walking.
#12
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,760
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1109 Post(s)
Liked 1,200 Times
in
760 Posts
This is a very short, very flat rail trail that gets pretty heavily used. It's less than 2.5 miles long.
I ride on it only occassionally, just to cut through for something different. Probably wont anymore if they put in the 10 mph speed limit. It has the usual problems of all MUPs - people walking without any regard for position on the trail, people walking four abreast, people turning around without looking (on bikes, blades, walking), dog walkers with extendable leashes, little kids riding anywhere while their parents are too busy to bother teaching them to be safe.
I ride on it only occassionally, just to cut through for something different. Probably wont anymore if they put in the 10 mph speed limit. It has the usual problems of all MUPs - people walking without any regard for position on the trail, people walking four abreast, people turning around without looking (on bikes, blades, walking), dog walkers with extendable leashes, little kids riding anywhere while their parents are too busy to bother teaching them to be safe.
This stuff doesn't bother me at all (the usage deal). It's normal and you just have to avoid it if it doesn't suit you.
#13
Cycle Year Round
Waiting for the officials to put in place a 10 mph speed limit on every highway that a motorist has hit a cyclist.
__________________
Land of the Free, Because of the Brave.
Land of the Free, Because of the Brave.
#14
Randomhead
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Happy Valley, Pennsylvania
Posts: 24,398
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked 3,698 Times
in
2,518 Posts
forget about motorists hitting cyclists, put a 10mph speed limit on every road where they've hit a pedestrian.
#15
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,760
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1109 Post(s)
Liked 1,200 Times
in
760 Posts
How did the discussion about a cyclist running into a pedestrian on an MUP morph into trash talk about streets and cars? Are people really that thick to think that it is relevant by any bizarre stretch of the imagination? Are they embarassed they're so clueless?
#16
24-Speed Machine
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Wash. Grove, MD
Posts: 6,058
Bikes: 2003 Specialized Allez 24-Speed Road Bike
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
I wouldn't ride on a trail with a 10mph speed limit, that's just ridiculous. I guess that's what they want. If this sort of thing happens around here I will start a campaign where cyclists call the cops any time a motorist looks at them funny. Really sick of municipalities picking on cyclists.
picture accompanying the article shows the victim and sister nearly blocking the trail. Maybe they need to contemplate the notion that there are other users of the trail?
picture accompanying the article shows the victim and sister nearly blocking the trail. Maybe they need to contemplate the notion that there are other users of the trail?
Last edited by Chris516; 09-18-12 at 10:20 PM.
#17
On your right
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Southern California
Posts: 735
Bikes: Specialized Roubaix Elite
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
The Strand in Manhattan Beach now has an 8 mph speed limit. My understanding (and a Manhattan Beach local would need to confirm this) is that prior to the speed limit, drama and collisions between cyclists and pedestrians were frequent (which is why they instituted the speed limit). The effect has been to slow down the cyclists and virtually eliminate collisions.
They did not educate pedestrians. They did not ban headsets or earbuds. They did not lower speed limits for cars on roads. They did not limit congestion on the Strand. They don't even patrol or enforce the speed limit. They did nothing but post the signs, cyclists slowed down, and collisions ended. Problem solved.
They did not educate pedestrians. They did not ban headsets or earbuds. They did not lower speed limits for cars on roads. They did not limit congestion on the Strand. They don't even patrol or enforce the speed limit. They did nothing but post the signs, cyclists slowed down, and collisions ended. Problem solved.
#18
Randomhead
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Happy Valley, Pennsylvania
Posts: 24,398
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked 3,698 Times
in
2,518 Posts
I go slow in the presence of pedestrians, and I wish other cyclists would too. However, I would hate to be constrained to some ridiculous speed limit when there is nobody there. From what I hear in practice, in most places the cops only enforce them when there is no reason for the speed limit, i.e. very little pedestrian traffic. The bike path I go on most often parallels a road with a 25mph speed limit and also a freeway. I would ride on the road more often, but they don't enforce the speed limit and the motorists on there act entitled to go 50mph.
#19
Cycle Year Round
The Strand in Manhattan Beach now has an 8 mph speed limit. My understanding (and a Manhattan Beach local would need to confirm this) is that prior to the speed limit, drama and collisions between cyclists and pedestrians were frequent (which is why they instituted the speed limit). The effect has been to slow down the cyclists and virtually eliminate collisions.
They did not educate pedestrians. They did not ban headsets or earbuds. They did not lower speed limits for cars on roads. They did not limit congestion on the Strand. They don't even patrol or enforce the speed limit. They did nothing but post the signs, cyclists slowed down, and collisions ended. Problem solved.
They did not educate pedestrians. They did not ban headsets or earbuds. They did not lower speed limits for cars on roads. They did not limit congestion on the Strand. They don't even patrol or enforce the speed limit. They did nothing but post the signs, cyclists slowed down, and collisions ended. Problem solved.
__________________
Land of the Free, Because of the Brave.
Land of the Free, Because of the Brave.
#20
On your right
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Southern California
Posts: 735
Bikes: Specialized Roubaix Elite
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
And no, the speed limit did not drive most cyclists off the path -- to the contrary. The Strand is completely jammed with cyclists along with pedestrians, dogs, roller-bladers, skateboarders, and joggers. In fact, given how relaxing and easy it now is to ride and sight-see on the path with low risk of collision, it seems that there are more cyclists than ever on the path.
#21
Junior Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 6
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
for me, Mason park is pretty nice 1.8 mile loop but problem is so many walker don't follow right way i hate people walk around trail especially, i hate people ride bike ,walk or running while talk phone not attention on trail ...
bike speed limits ... it is joke to me most cycle love to easy ride if you serious bike as high speed.. most cyclist knew avoid park morning or evening walk in park , most peoples will there.. i know some of one told me if you want to high speed then look for bike trail i knew few bike trail is better than walk trail ..
bike speed limits ... it is joke to me most cycle love to easy ride if you serious bike as high speed.. most cyclist knew avoid park morning or evening walk in park , most peoples will there.. i know some of one told me if you want to high speed then look for bike trail i knew few bike trail is better than walk trail ..
#22
Cycle Year Round
The Strand in Manhattan Beach now has an 8 mph speed limit. My understanding (and a Manhattan Beach local would need to confirm this) is that prior to the speed limit, drama and collisions between cyclists and pedestrians were frequent (which is why they instituted the speed limit).
The solution I would hope for is the one we have: slowing down cyclists and eliminating collisions. There is a parallel street 1 block to the north. Cyclists are free to ride fast there.
And no, the speed limit did not drive most cyclists off the path -- to the contrary. The Strand is completely jammed with cyclists along with pedestrians, dogs, roller-bladers, skateboarders, and joggers. In fact, given how relaxing and easy it now is to ride and sight-see on the path with low risk of collision, it seems that there are more cyclists than ever on the path.
And no, the speed limit did not drive most cyclists off the path -- to the contrary. The Strand is completely jammed with cyclists along with pedestrians, dogs, roller-bladers, skateboarders, and joggers. In fact, given how relaxing and easy it now is to ride and sight-see on the path with low risk of collision, it seems that there are more cyclists than ever on the path.
__________________
Land of the Free, Because of the Brave.
Land of the Free, Because of the Brave.
#23
Senior Member
https://www.oregonlive.com/portland/i...prosecute.html
A bicyclist runs down a pedestrian and is charged with assault. How do you not see a disconnect?
#24
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: 25 miles northwest of Boston
Posts: 29,552
Bikes: Bottecchia Sprint, GT Timberline 29r, Marin Muirwoods 29er, Trek FX Alpha 7.0
Mentioned: 112 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5224 Post(s)
Liked 3,581 Times
in
2,342 Posts
Jones #1 60 was charged with third-degree assault for allegedly hitting Jones #2 67? Seriously? Hello people, this was a domestic despute!
#25
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 3,040
Bikes: Bacchetta Giro, Strada
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
A car driver runs down a pedestrian (or bicyclist) and generally is not charged with any crime.
https://www.oregonlive.com/portland/i...prosecute.html
A bicyclist runs down a pedestrian and is charged with assault. How do you not see a disconnect?
https://www.oregonlive.com/portland/i...prosecute.html
A bicyclist runs down a pedestrian and is charged with assault. How do you not see a disconnect?
That said, again, "assault" requires intent. Either the police screwed up, or there's more to it than "the cyclist accidentally crashed into a pedestrian".
As for the fact that both the cyclist and the pedestrian have the same name that rumrunn6 brought up, the article explicitly says "The Murphys are not related."
It doesn't sound like a domestic dispute, though the assault charges suggest some sort of dispute.