SecretSpectrum

I'm still new to cycling on the road and I'm not too comfortable making right turns. I live in Australia so I ride on the left side of the road, so turning right for me would be like turning left for people in the US. I know this can be confusing to read for people who live in countries where you ride on the right. I guess you could replace left with right and vice versa for the rest of my post.

When making hook turns, after you cross the road do you stop in front of the car in the left lane and turn right, or do you stop in the bike lane/shoulder where I would normally ride when going straight ahead?

If doing a normal right turn, do I ride to the right of the cars in the right lane, or in front of them by taking the lane? At what point do I merge left?

Any tips for transitioning from the shoulder/bike lane to the right turn lane? Most of the time I stop in the lane I'm in until there's a gap in the next lane, but I've seen people keep riding and slowly move across in front of cars. How do you get them to slow down for you?

I couldn't find much information on this for bicycles but there's lots of information for cars. I know most of the road rules for cars, and bicycles are considered vehicles but I'm not sure how the rules would apply for bikes.

One last thing, what penalties are there for breaking road rules on a bike? Here with cars people report your license plate number and you get sent a fine in the mail and points deduced off your drivers license. How do they fine or penalize you when you're on a bike? Just curious, lol, i didn't break any rules .

Any advice will be appreciated,
SecretSpectrum.

contango 

The simple part, what penalties there are for breaking the rules on a bike. That depends on where you live, and what national or local laws you broke. In theory in the UK you can be fined for cycling in the dark without lights, cycling on the pavement, or breaking any other rule that applies to vehicles. In practise unless you are seen by a police officer there's little chance of actually being fined and even if you are seen by a police officer if you simply refuse to stop then unless they can catch you or identify you they still can't do much about it.

In terms of how to move across it's hard to give a one-size-fits-all answer to that because so much would depend on the traffic, the junction in question, what lanes are available, your skill and confidence on the bike, and so on. I live in the UK so don't need to flip the left/right thing around. What I do is start checking the traffic behind me well before I need to get into position so that if there's a lot of traffic I can start indicating my intentions good and early and maybe get into position good and early. If there's a right turn lane then you can either take your place in the traffic or look to pass the traffic on either side, depending on what other traffic is about and your skill and confidence doing that sort of thing - when I first started cycling I just took my place in a traffic queue whereas now I'll use any space that's available and safe to move to the front of the queue in traffic jams or at traffic lights.

You can't force cars to slow down any more than you can force cars to let you in if you want to change lane in a car. One thing I have found is that when drivers can clearly see what I want to do they are usually reasonably accommodating. The flip side of that is that when I'm behind the wheel I'll try and accommodate a cyclist if I can see what it is they want to do and find the cyclists that annoy me the most are the ones that leave me guessing what they are likely to do next.

If you just can't get across in time it's not really any different to finding you can't get across a lane in the car - you just go a bit further, turn around and come back. Or, since a bike is small enough to pick it up, you pull off the road and cross at a safe place on foot either pushing or carrying the bike. It's not ideal but not the end of the world if you fall back on doing that. It beats trying to swerve across in front of someone who may or may not have space to slow down for you.

SecretSpectrum

Thanks very much for the detailed answer. I will try moving over earlier, but I always have a feeling that I'm slowing down traffic for riding in the middle of the lane. Although I have a license, I don't drive much, mainly because of the price of fuel, and for me catching the bus or riding my bike isn't much harder or slower. What's it like to have a slow moving vehicle or cyclist in front of your car? Do you get annoyed or angry? Personally I don't mind as long as they're not in front of you for too long.

contango 

Depends what you mean by "slow moving", how long they are in front of me, whether their road position is considerate etc. If a cyclist is in front of me when I'm driving and they are indicating a right turn they really aren't any different to a car in front of me indicating a right turn. I take far more exception to other road users that leave me guessing by either not indicating at all or indicating an intention to do something that's totally inconsistent with what they are actually doing.

When I'm turning right I typically ride near the right edge of the lane. It makes my intentions clear, and also means traffic wanting to go straight on can pass me on the inside. In my cycling experience most of the times the traffic is heavy it's also relatively slow moving (30-40mph max) and if I can maintain 20mph or so I'm not that much of an obstruction.

I ride more than I drive because in town it's faster and cheaper, and going out of town it gives me some exercise whereas going for a drive doesn't. I don't like driving in England a whole lot, mainly because of the traffic and the price of fuel.

Looigi

Seriously? Couldn't you just contest it? It'd come down to your word against theirs. Heck, when I get tickets from police here I always contest them. I rarely get one dismissed but I have always gotten a reduced penalty, even for my most egregious infractions.

FWIW: In the US, it varies by state but in some there's a specific law that states any infractions accrued on a bicycle can not be charged against your driving record or affect your auto insurance rates.

As far as turning right, or left, in the vast vast majority of cases I take the lane and do it just as I would driving a motor vehicle...unless there's a long line of cars waiting to turn, in which case I brazenly ride up to the head of the line.

ModeratedUser150120149

Since you asked: Don't do it. Not yet.

First, get yourself to the point you are comfortable in traffic and are able to maintain situational awareness no matter what. Also, that you are a strong rider who can accelerate, decelerate and change direction rapidly. Build up to riding in fast traffic where there is a large speed differential.

You cannot expect vehicles to see you let alone slow down for you. At the same time you can expect driver confusion when you are attempting to make turns as though you were a motor vehicle. Yes, I know it is legal. But, compared to the number of vehicles a typical driver sees in a day the occasional bike is a rarity and raises the "What do I do?" question in the vehicle driver's mind? So, legalities aside it falls on the biker to maneuver to avoid the collision. That can be done safely and without impeding traffic. But it requires experience and strong riding.

contango 

I think this is the key. I've found that since I've gotten used to handling my bike in traffic, changing speed and direction as fast as is needed and moving as fast as the urban traffic I've found my confidence to pass stationary traffic on whatever side works and then merge back into line if it starts moving again has improved. I've also found that as my confidence has improved so drivers are more willing to give me the space I need to make a necessary manoeuvre.

I suspect a good part of that is down to predictability and speed. If traffic is doing 20-25mph it's no big deal to let someone out who is doing 18 so they can get around a row of parked cars. It's a bigger deal for the same traffic to let someone out who is doing 6mph and wobbling all over the place.

GamblerGORD53

If traffic is busy and there is no median or turn lane, there is Zero chance I will barge across lanes and dangle myself in the middle. Last year I saw a guy doing this in middle of 6 lanes across a slow one way street and the light changed. He even waited thru the red, when all he needed to do was just plain go across. The car drivers and me were all going like WTF. On a bicycle there is NO point to doing it, since you are likely waiting for the yellow light anyway. Especially at the crossing of two 4 or 6 lane streets. I go thru and wait for the light to change. If the light goes red first, then I go across in the crosswalk, while watching for turners of course. No waiting for cars involved when the light goes green.

If I am in a turn lane, then I will likely filter up the line between the lanes to the front of the pack.

wirespot

Doesn't the police ask for some kind of proof, they just take their word for it?

gcottay

I usually make turns on the bike just as with a motor vehicle. On busy streets without a dedicated turn lane I will often hug the center line to make it clear I am sharing the lane and won't get all bent out of shape riding through with the cars and trucks. If you try this technique be sure don't be in any rush to move away from center. Merge with the same care you used to get there in the first place.

SecretSpectrum

Most of the time, the fine is for speeding or blowing red lights. At most intersections with major roads, there are cameras. I haven't been reported for anything, but a friend got reported for not giving way and had to talk to the police.

Chris516

Not confusing for me, since I lived in London(UK), when I was a kid.

In front of the car.

In front of them.

Continue doing it the way you have.

I was out earlier, after a run to the post office. On my way back to the house, I had to make a left turn. I had to wait for a gap in the traffic, to cut over two lanes, to get into the left-turn lane.

They apply to bikes, too.

That depends on the level of the infraction, and whether the local devote time to stopping cyclists'.

Several years ago, I was stopped on a 30mph/48kph road. Because the officer thought I was drunk. I didn't get fined. But I did find out why he thought I was drunk. He said I was weaving. I was weaving because I had to make a quick right turn, without going into oncoming traffic, or taking the turn too fast. Since then, I have not been stopped by the police.

I hope I helped.

SecretSpectrum

Thank you all for all the information, you helped me a lot

contango 

Going back to the issue of what laws apply to cyclists your best bet is to check the law where you live.

In the UK, as I understand it, (I'm not a lawyer so this isn't a legally qualified opinion and is worth what you paid for it) laws that relate to moving vehicles mostly apply to cyclists. That said you get a few anomalies, like the 20mph speed limit imposed in Richmond Park applies to "mechanically propelled vehicles", which as far as I can see doesn't include bicycles. However you get a few extra laws, like the one against "wanton and furious cycling" (as I believe it's called) which clearly don't apply to other vehicles. From what I can tell the "wanton and furious cycling" is very rarely used but provides a way of punishing those who do things like riding on the pavement at racing speed when people are trying to walk on the pavement.

In the UK a cyclist is not required to have a speedometer and so typically there is little the police can do about cyclists who are going above the posted speed limit, unless they are so far over the speed limit the police would argue any reasonable person would know they were speeding. Even then the most likely outcome is that the police would "have words" with the cyclist rather than seeking to prosecute them. Obviously in Australia things might be different, and in any case if it matters check things out for yourself, as I doubt a court would accept "but some English guy on the internet said..." as a defence.

jerseyJim

One thing I think is important to consider when making your right hand turn is lane position. When you are moving into the right hand lane to make your turn you should be in the center of the lane rather than the right part of it. The reason for this is that if you are in the center of the lane as you make your turn you block anyone from coming around you on your left and forcing you into oncoming traffic.

K'Tesh

OR if traffic is doing 35-50mph to your, say, 12mph. If you don't feel comfortable, just do a box turn. Ride as far to the Left (in your case) (Right almost everywhere else) as practicable, cross the road, turn and stop at the far side, then wait for the signal to change. and proceed straight. May not be the sexiest way, nor appear to be the most time effective method, but when you compare that to the time lost lying on the ground waiting for an ambulance (or hearse) after a collision, it becomes QUITE effective.

contango 

Yep, a couple of times I've struggled to merge from the cycle lane through the 30mph traffic (even though I was doing about 20 myself) to turn right, so just kept going and took a turn a few roads later.

In the city it works just fine, there are enough roads to choose from. In the country chances are you'll be able to turn in the road before too long and get back to where you wanted to be.

turbo1889

I usually merge over into the left (right for you) turn lane and make my turn just like I was driving a full size vehicle. Now I do have a technique you may consider using that I use when traffic is too heavy and or attitudes of the full size vehicle operators are too "hot" to take the risk (Christmas shopping season can get that way sometimes).

Basically what I do is go straight through the intersection on the right (left for you) till I'm almost through the intersection and come to a full stop right on the white line between the right (left for you) turn lane and center through lane of the cross street on the right (left for you) and slip forward off of the saddle over the middle bar and plant my feet down and then grab the center bar of the bike and spin it 90-degrees to the left (right for you) ready to go across on the cross street when the light turns and the cross street traffic has their turn. I then proceed straight across the intersection in the direction I wanted to go without having hardly any conflicts. Now it does mean that since I'm "double staging" my left (right for you) turn it does cost me a little time but it works very well in certain situations.

wsbob

Sounds like generally good procedure.

"...indicating my intentions good and early..." contango

Meaning, I hope, to indicate intentions by display of hand signals. Hand signals for direction and stopping vary a bit around the world, but are generally similar in that they involve extending the arm and hand away from the body where the intention being indicated can be clearly seen. Yesterday, I relocated a page from a motorcyclist's website that has some easily understandable graphics that show examples of indicating, turns, stops, ...and more.

https://www.ridemyown.com/articles/sa...dsignals.shtml