ralph12

Has anyone else been hit by this kind of collision (when you are cycling straight, and a turning driver makes a turn across your lane and hits you)?

This is the kind of collision that got me. It's very hard to avoid, because some drivers do not actually look at the oncoming lane before swerving across it.

johnny99

The left hook is the leading cause of car-vs-pedestrian crashes in USA cities. I expect that it is a significant cause of car-vs-bicycle crashes as well.
https://dc.streetsblog.org/2013/04/04...-turning-left/

John Forester

The Cross statistics show that the motorist improper left turn leads the list of motorist-caused car-bike collisions.

Chris516

I am not advocating the way I avoid drivers like that.

But I maintain 'taking the lane'. Sometimes going all the out to the double-yellow line a two-lane road(or white broken line between the inner and outer lanes on a four-lane road). Also, Going a reasonable speed for the speed limit of that road i.e. 15/15mph, 20/20mph, 25/30mph, 30/40mph; Of course I can't maintain the faster speed for a long distance. But my speed respects the speed of the motorized drivers. Coupling that with asserting my lane position, while ticking off motorists', I avoid 'hookdom'. Of course, those motorists who are still intent on passing, legal or not, will do it. But they end up doing it at their own risk.

B. Carfree

I must be doing something wrong. I've ridden nearly half a million miles and I haven't even had a shadow of a close call of a left cross. I've been brake-checked, right-hooked, brushed by passing motorists, ducked under gallon-sized milk jugs (full) thrown off balconies, had a fellow with a crow-bar get out of a truck to say hello and all sorts of other fun, so I know I haven't lived my whole life among high-quality motorists. However, I have never had to dodge a left-turning motorist.

Maybe I'm just too large to not see. I guess it's time for a diet. I'd hate to miss out on the full range of cycling experiences.

degnaw

Funny, I've had people left turn in front of me even when I had a 500+ lumen flashlight strobing away in front. Perhaps I need to gain some weight.

Ferrous Bueller

Which effectively prevents the right hook.
But the OP is talking about is being hit by oncoming traffic, turning left across your lane. Left turns are often rushed, and drivers may not pay attention to all road users.

The only defenses for this are being as visible as possible, and riding defensibly.

turbo1889

I call it a "Left-T-Cross" because they cross your path and you either T-bone them or they T-bone you. Other then quibbling about the name to call the hazard, yes, I agree it is a major hazard. In high speed traffic where I cannot keep up with the speed of traffic or get close enough to fully take the lane and ride "All In" and rather I am riding "Out" of the main flow of traffic to the right of the white fog line, or on roads that do not have a safe, effective, and satisfactory place to ride in the "Out" position to the right of the fog line when I am riding "In" the main traffic lane but am too the right in it riding basically in the right tire track of the lane this is one of the most significant hazards to be watched out for. Right hooks are probably actually less of a danger in some ways since this kind of collision tends to be usually a more violent "head on" or T-bone collision which is not as easily escaped by "bailing" into the ditch off to the right if necessary.

Even riding "All In" in low speed in town traffic where I can keep up and basically taking the same position as I would riding a motorcycle it is still a hazard with some scum on the road who absolutely refuse to yield while making a left hand turn because I'm a cyclist where they would yield to a heavy vehicle. More then once I've been tempted to bash in a left side passenger window with a U-lock after skidding to a stop inches from T-boning some cager who made a point blank range left hand turn right in front of my path illegally violating my right of way and failing to yield to straight through traffic (Me - I am traffic!).

Chris516

Yes, You are right. I missed that aspect.

Regardless of whether a left-turn vehicle is paying attention(when the light is green and the left-turn arrow has stopped), I stare at the left-turn lane to make sure no vehicle suddenly feels the right to step on the gas while I am about to go through the intersection.

sauerwald

No collision, but a close call here:

JonnyHK 

Any bets that they didn't see you because of the shadows.

Nice skills (and scream!). Surprised you didn't stop and look back at them (ie give the evil eye).

Chris516

Yes, A close call. I am glad you weren't hit. It certainly seemed like the driver thought they could cross in front of you. Regardless of ROW.

aramis

They were too busy being smug in the electric car to worry about oncoming traffic.

GeraldF

Personally, I feel that the best way to avoid getting left-hooked is to SLOW DOWN prior to reaching the intersection. This is especially true for avoiding right hooks, but IMO it's also true for avoiding left hooks.

My reasoning: Bikes are not as visible as cars. It's difficult for drivers to judge how fast an approaching cyclist is going. If the cyclist is riding 25 mph, the oncoming driver may not realize just how fast the cyclist is going and may misjudge the timing of his/her turn. Also, by riding fast you will require more time and distance to come to a stop if you do get cut off by a left-turning vehicle. Higher speed = greater risk for a serious injury.

Regarding the above poster's advice of riding 30 mph in a 40 mph zone, I do agree that there are certain safety benefits to keeping up with traffic, PARTICULARLY if you are "taking the lane" on a narrow roadway. However, these safety benefits apply for the stretches of road involving no intersections. Moreover, the safety benefits apply regarding the traffic coming from BEHIND, not the oncoming traffic. At the intersections themselves, cyclists riding 30 mph are highly vulnerable to getting left-hooked, even though it will be the fault of the driver. Same for right hooks.

Before anyone goes bashing me for suggesting that slowing down at intersections is always a must, I will admit that this is context sensitive. Lane widths, presence of a wide shoulder or bike lane, speed limit, etc, all play into the ideal speed and lane positioning as one approaches an intersection. To give one example, if biking in a city with a typical two-lane road having bike lanes and a speed limit of 25 mph, I strongly feel that any cyclist riding in the bike lane is safest the SLOWER he/she rides through any intersection.

My "slower is safer" philosophy coincides with evidence that bikeshare users have remarkably low accident rates in cities. Most of these bikeshare bikes, such as Capital Bikeshare in Washington, DC, are clunky 3-speed bikes. If they were fast roadbikes, you'd see the number of accidents increase.

Chris516

I stand in the pedals maintaining speed while approaching the intersection. So a motorist turning left, will be able to see me. Also, I will be looking to see if any motorist is about to make a left turn, so I will know to watch out for them.

I don't agree with slowing down at intersections, unless there is obvious traffic in front of me and/or, the traffic light is red. But, I am not going to bash you about that.

Bikeshare users are subject to bikes, that are not capable of going fast. Therefore, Of course they are going to go slow. As for Bikeshare bikes being causing a lot of accidents, I agree with that because of a Bikeshare cyclist's inexperience riding on the road. Also, Their not knowing the traffic laws, and how to combine knowledge of the traffic laws, with their own safety.

sudo bike

The only time I came close to getting creamed with a left hook, wasn't really a traditional left hook. The guy made a U-turn in the middle of the street and immediately pulled to the side to parallel park... into me. So, sort of a mix between a left hook and merging into me.

GeraldF

Just want to clarify regarding bikeshare: What I said was that "bikeshare users have remarkably LOW accident rates in cities." In other words, despite their relative inexperience, they get hit by cars LESS FREQUENTLY than a typical road cyclist. Their are many theories on this. Some say that drivers are more cautious around bikeshare users because they are generally helmetless and drivers suspect that they may be inexperienced. Thus, drivers drive more cordially around bikeshare users and give them more space when passing. Others point out that inexperienced bikeshare users are cautious and thus avoid risky behavior. Additionally they are more likely to avoid dangerous routes than the typical vehicular cyclist. I believe that all of these factors are true. However, I also believe that the number of bikeshare crashes would INCREASE if the bikes were capable of going faster.

Notso_fastLane

I think I woulda had a chat with that guy..... If he wasn't very contrite, I would consider pressing vehicular assault charges. Just show the video to a good lawyer.

Left hooks are a very common danger for me, and seem much worse on a motorcycle than a car. I think, as mentioned above, it's because it's harder to judge speeds on a smaller object like a bike coming towards you than a car. Of course, the prudent thing to do would be to simply wait to turn left, but they might be late for their hair appt or something.....

Chris516

I don't agree, that motorists' are more careful around Bikeshare users. Because, A motorized vehicle going 20-30mph on city streets, can't distinguish the markings on a bike, from one that is personally owned, to one that is owned by Bikeshare.

While I agree that less experienced cyclists' will avoid more risky behavior. Where Bikeshare is concerned, that same inexperience can lead to being surprised by one of the many things, that an experienced cyclist will already be looking out for.

Take for instance Foxhall Road in NW DC, just past Q St. and the High's convenience store(if it is still at that intersection). There is an alley way opposite the convenience store, that meets Foxhall Road. A less experienced cyclist would seemingly have more time to stop if a vehicle came out of that alley. But if they were riding in the door zone, next to parked vehicles'. A vehicle coming out of that alley would not see them, and the cyclist would not have time to avoid a collision. Also, The inexperienced cyclist would not be thinking to look at the alley before they crossed in front of it. They would also have more time, but not quicker thinking to avoid a sudden hazard. Whereas, an experienced cyclist would not be riding in the door zone, and would check to see if a vehicle was coming out of that alley.

degnaw

Just curious - how long can you maintain cycling at 30mph?

Earl Grey

I can't speak to whether the average driver is more careful around a Bikeshare user, but have you driven much in DC since their arrival? The Bikeshare bikes are very distinctive visually, and the automatic lighting is another big clue. Not difficult to spot as a driver if you know what they are (in my opinion). Personally, I'd want to avoid an accident with one because I think they weigh more than my car.

GeraldF, not that I doubt it, just intrigued - what's the source of the Bikeshare safety data?

hagen2456

I would think that the speed is key. Your ability to stop in time if a car door opens in front of you, or a car suddenly appears from an alley, or in many other dangerous situations, very much depends on your speed. At 10 mph, you can stop almost instantly. Not so at 20 mph.

bikecrate

The only car on bike accident I’ve been in was a left hook. The lady said she didn’t see me (she also said I was supposed to stop to let her through ). I was on a sunlight dappled street at the time so there is a chance I was less visible than usual. I now have a strobe and blinkie running at all times even in the daylight.
Naively I always thought I would be able to see this type of situation forming and avoid it. I do try to time it so I don’t converge with vehicles at cross streets, but riding in the city it is almost impossible.

GeraldF

This is from an interview that Jonathan Maus of Bike Portland conducted with Capital Bikeshare. 61 injuries in over 3.6 million rides. The average ride is ~1.4 miles, meaning 61 injuries over 5 million miles +/-. There have been zero fatalities.

Here's the full article. It's very in depth and is super "behind the scenes." https://bikeportland.org/2013/03/10/b...ikeshare-84006

The other source that has convinced me that bikeshare bikes have a super safe track record is the new book City Cycling, edited by John Pucher. If I have more time later I may post more to the thread. In a nutshell, researchers compiled data from several countries operating bikeshare. The frequency of accidents was very low across the board. I believe it included some data comparing crash frequency for all cyclists vs. crash frequency of bikeshare users.

Earl Grey

Thanks. Interesting reading, at least for someone who has used the system!