Carlos Bertonatti
#76
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New Rochelle, NY
Posts: 38,729
Bikes: too many bikes from 1967 10s (5x2)Frejus to a Sumitomo Ti/Chorus aluminum 10s (10x2), plus one non-susp mtn bike I use as my commuter
Mentioned: 140 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5793 Post(s)
Liked 2,594 Times
in
1,437 Posts
Seagulls and pigeons were bad enough. now I have to worry about falling cow paddies?
__________________
FB
Chain-L site
An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
FB
Chain-L site
An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
#78
24-Speed Machine
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Wash. Grove, MD
Posts: 6,058
Bikes: 2003 Specialized Allez 24-Speed Road Bike
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
I don't know. 12 years is the bottom of the range of the sentencing guidelines, so this seems kind of a light sentence. But I am not sure that 30 years would be a better punishment than 12 years. Right now, I feel like its just too light in view of all the crap pulled in this guys case. But there is also a social fail in having a guy with 46 tickets even driving. There is no way this guy should have been driving at all, drunk or sober. I especially like the way the newspaper refers to Bertonatti as an aspiring pop musician rather than a more descriptive moniker such a drunken piss poor driver finally killed an innocent man after 46 attempts.
His own brother tried to claim, that it was him and not Carlos Bertonatti, that got the 46 tickets.
I bet he will get sent to a minimum-security prison. Perfect for the minimum sentence.
Last edited by Chris516; 09-12-13 at 10:05 AM.
#79
Senior Member
Why do you think that? Do you know Judge Miller's sentencing history in similar cases not involving a cyclist, where a vehicle driver or pedestrian was killed by a DWI hit and run driver?
#80
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New Rochelle, NY
Posts: 38,729
Bikes: too many bikes from 1967 10s (5x2)Frejus to a Sumitomo Ti/Chorus aluminum 10s (10x2), plus one non-susp mtn bike I use as my commuter
Mentioned: 140 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5793 Post(s)
Liked 2,594 Times
in
1,437 Posts
I don't know the specifics and have no way of knowing what the Judge's reasoning was, but I get sorry of the "we're just cyclists and nobody cares" line. IME, drivers tend to be punished equally or even worse for criminally killing or injuring cyclists and pedestrians vs. other drivers.
Though it shouldn't factor, media coverage plays a bigger role than what should be more material considerations.
__________________
FB
Chain-L site
An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
FB
Chain-L site
An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
#81
Senior Member
My thoughts were more along the lines of is 12 years appropriate for the offense and the history, not specific to any anti-cyclist bias that may or may not exist in the judiciary. My thinkings is that the minimum sentence should be for a "first time errors" where bad judgment caused a death, not for a habitual bad driver who has enough tickets with or without his brothers contributions to the driving record, to demonstrate a callus disregard for public safety, plus drunk driving plus lying about it to the police at the time of arrest, and so on. Seems to me that if those conditions give rise to a minimum sentence, then there is no incentive to not flees, lie, and so on. Or to put it another way, once the deed is done, why not lie, cheat and run if the punishment is the same?
#82
24-Speed Machine
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Wash. Grove, MD
Posts: 6,058
Bikes: 2003 Specialized Allez 24-Speed Road Bike
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
While I don't know Judge Miller's sentencing record in similar cases. In general(including Judge Miller), this is 'par for the course', when it comes to the sentences for killing a cyclist, premeditated or not. The life of a cyclist, means less to law enforcement, from the LEO, all the way to the judge. When the motorist that killed Ken Kifer got 23yrs., that is a rarity. 46 drunk driving citations, culminating in killing someone. Had a motorist been killed by Carlos Bertonatti's drunk driving, I can assure you that, MADD(Mothers Against Drunk Driving) would have been out in force, and he would have received a stiffer sentence than what he received. At the bare minimum(somehow), Carlos Bertonatti could have received only four years. So, Twelve years is not that much better.
#83
Seńior Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Michigan
Posts: 13,749
Bikes: Windsor Fens, Giant Seek 0 (2014, Alfine 8 + discs)
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 446 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 8 Times
in
7 Posts
Honestly, these days I'm just thankful that vehicular homicide perpetrators get ANY jail time more than a year or two. People have gotten off in some pretty bad cases with no time at all or just a few months. It could be better than 12 years, but it could also be a lot worse.
__________________
Work: the 8 hours that separates bike rides.
Work: the 8 hours that separates bike rides.
#84
Senior Member
My thoughts were more along the lines of is 12 years appropriate for the offense and the history, not specific to any anti-cyclist bias that may or may not exist in the judiciary. My thinkings is that the minimum sentence should be for a "first time errors" where bad judgment caused a death, not for a habitual bad driver who has enough tickets with or without his brothers contributions to the driving record, to demonstrate a callus disregard for public safety, plus drunk driving plus lying about it to the police at the time of arrest, and so on. Seems to me that if those conditions give rise to a minimum sentence, then there is no incentive to not flees, lie, and so on. Or to put it another way, once the deed is done, why not lie, cheat and run if the punishment is the same?
Wait, did he have previous DWIs? Otherwise, compared to traffic tickets, this would be a first time offense type of situation.
I'm happy he even got 12. I someone pessimistically expected far less.
#85
Senior Member
While I don't know Judge Miller's sentencing record in similar cases. In general(including Judge Miller), this is 'par for the course', when it comes to the sentences for killing a cyclist, premeditated or not. The life of a cyclist, means less to law enforcement, from the LEO, all the way to the judge. When the motorist that killed Ken Kifer got 23yrs., that is a rarity. 46 drunk driving citations, culminating in killing someone. Had a motorist been killed by Carlos Bertonatti's drunk driving, I can assure you that, MADD(Mothers Against Drunk Driving) would have been out in force, and he would have received a stiffer sentence than what he received. At the bare minimum(somehow), Carlos Bertonatti could have received only four years. So, Twelve years is not that much better.
Time for me to not feed a troll anymore.
#87
Bicikli Huszár
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Fresno, CA
Posts: 2,116
Bikes: '95 Novara Randonee
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I'm more or less happy with 12 years. I'd be happier if we changed the system to prevent this rather than punitive reactions after the fact. But considering what we have to work with, 12 years isn't bad, really.
#88
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New Rochelle, NY
Posts: 38,729
Bikes: too many bikes from 1967 10s (5x2)Frejus to a Sumitomo Ti/Chorus aluminum 10s (10x2), plus one non-susp mtn bike I use as my commuter
Mentioned: 140 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5793 Post(s)
Liked 2,594 Times
in
1,437 Posts
Living in a free society means relying on people to do the right thing. It's successful when most do, but we'll never see the day when all do.
__________________
FB
Chain-L site
An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
FB
Chain-L site
An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
#89
Bicikli Huszár
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Fresno, CA
Posts: 2,116
Bikes: '95 Novara Randonee
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Of course, a lot would need to be done here to accomplish that. Training, for one. Laws specifically exempting people from liability if they utilize their training. More to the point, it is very difficult to impose more stringent driving standards when it is often the only practical method of transit... we can't really crack down on drivers as effectively as we might like until there are other ways for people to get to and from work, school, etc (i.e. public transit), without pretty big societal costs.
#90
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Green Valley AZ
Posts: 3,770
Bikes: Trice Q; Volae Century; TT 3.4
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times
in
2 Posts
I hope the appeal works and Bertonatti gets a revised sentence. Assuming good time and other early release provisions, thirty-seven years would be about right.
#92
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New Rochelle, NY
Posts: 38,729
Bikes: too many bikes from 1967 10s (5x2)Frejus to a Sumitomo Ti/Chorus aluminum 10s (10x2), plus one non-susp mtn bike I use as my commuter
Mentioned: 140 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5793 Post(s)
Liked 2,594 Times
in
1,437 Posts
Wasn't what supposed to happen? If you're talking about sentencing, you might take a minute to scroll back through the thread for a few days of posts.
__________________
FB
Chain-L site
An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
FB
Chain-L site
An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
#94
Randomhead
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Happy Valley, Pennsylvania
Posts: 24,402
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked 3,701 Times
in
2,521 Posts
sentenced to 12 years https://www.nbcmiami.com/news/Judge-t...223462431.html
#95
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Northeast United States
Posts: 1,147
Bikes: Tarmac, Focus Urban 8, Giant Hybrid
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Good decision. What I don't understand is that if Bertonatti accepts his responsibility that he/his family should abide by the decision set forth by the court and quit bawling in court ; interesting too is that his lawyer pronounces the word 'patently' differently and plays the crowd saying that he's angry. Of course, there is the appeal process.
#96
Cycle Year Round
sentenced to 12 years https://www.nbcmiami.com/news/Judge-t...223462431.html
Sounds like the lawyer and family wanted a 4 year sentence with probably minimum of 1-2 years, meaning the guy would get out within a few days of the sentence plus time to process the paperwork.
__________________
Land of the Free, Because of the Brave.
Land of the Free, Because of the Brave.
#97
genec
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: West Coast
Posts: 27,079
Bikes: custom built, sannino, beachbike, giant trance x2
Mentioned: 86 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13658 Post(s)
Liked 4,532 Times
in
3,158 Posts
Remember folks, he wasn't sentenced for killing a cyclist, he was sentenced for driving drunk and killing a cyclist.
Had he been sober, he might have walked away.
Had he been sober, he might have walked away.
#98
Cycle Year Round
Although not stated, a good part of the sentence likely was due to how he behaved with the police.
__________________
Land of the Free, Because of the Brave.
Land of the Free, Because of the Brave.
#99
24-Speed Machine
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Wash. Grove, MD
Posts: 6,058
Bikes: 2003 Specialized Allez 24-Speed Road Bike
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
Below, Is what has happened since his sentence was handed down, along with where he is incarcerated.
477 11/07/2013
D C A ORDER FOR EXTENTION OF TIME TRANSCRIPTS EXTENDED UP TO & INCLUDING 12/30/2013 #3D13-2535
476 10/29/2013
STATEMENT OF JUDICIAL ACTS AND DESIGNATIONS TO CRT REPORTER
475 10/03/2013
APPELLATE COURT CASE NUMBER DCA/#3D13-2535
473 10/03/2013
NOTICE OF APPEAL TRANSMITTED TO DCA
474 10/03/2013
RECORD ON APPEAL DUE DATE - 11/20/2013
472 10/02/2013 028851/00073
NOTICE OF APPEAL J&S/ PUBLIC DEFENDER
471 09/25/2013
ORDER: ORDER OF INSOLVENCY AND APPOINTMENT OF COUNSEL
470 09/25/2013
APPELLANT ATTY PDEF/PUBLIC DEFENDER APPOINTMENT, AS
467 09/19/2013
TRANSCRIPT OF COURT HEARING SEPTEMBER 9, 2013
465 09/19/2013
REPORT RE: APPEAL SET FOR 09/25/2013 AT 08:45
469 09/18/2013
COMMITMENT ISSUED
https://www.dc.state.fl.us/ActiveInma...onID=799478390
Looking at his inmate photo, he looks like pure evil.
477 11/07/2013
D C A ORDER FOR EXTENTION OF TIME TRANSCRIPTS EXTENDED UP TO & INCLUDING 12/30/2013 #3D13-2535
476 10/29/2013
STATEMENT OF JUDICIAL ACTS AND DESIGNATIONS TO CRT REPORTER
475 10/03/2013
APPELLATE COURT CASE NUMBER DCA/#3D13-2535
473 10/03/2013
NOTICE OF APPEAL TRANSMITTED TO DCA
474 10/03/2013
RECORD ON APPEAL DUE DATE - 11/20/2013
472 10/02/2013 028851/00073
NOTICE OF APPEAL J&S/ PUBLIC DEFENDER
471 09/25/2013
ORDER: ORDER OF INSOLVENCY AND APPOINTMENT OF COUNSEL
470 09/25/2013
APPELLANT ATTY PDEF/PUBLIC DEFENDER APPOINTMENT, AS
467 09/19/2013
TRANSCRIPT OF COURT HEARING SEPTEMBER 9, 2013
465 09/19/2013
REPORT RE: APPEAL SET FOR 09/25/2013 AT 08:45
469 09/18/2013
COMMITMENT ISSUED
https://www.dc.state.fl.us/ActiveInma...onID=799478390
Looking at his inmate photo, he looks like pure evil.
Last edited by Chris516; 11-28-13 at 01:25 AM.