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Drudge: Sabotaging forest trails.

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Drudge: Sabotaging forest trails.

Old 05-03-13, 03:15 AM
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Olden Crow
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Drudge: Sabotaging forest trails.

Apparently some people like dogs and trees more than bicyclists. And are quite militant about it.

https://bigstory.ap.org/article/psych...otaging-trails.

"He was a psychiatrist for Jackson County when he was arrested, but no longer has that job."
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Old 05-03-13, 04:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Olden Crow View Post
Apparently some people like dogs and trees more than bicyclists. And are quite militant about it.

https://bigstory.ap.org/article/psych...otaging-trails.

"He was a psychiatrist for Jackson County when he was arrested, but no longer has that job."
You gave me another reason to stay off the bike trails, and on the road instead.
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Old 05-03-13, 06:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Chris516 View Post
You gave me another reason to stay off the bike trails, and on the road instead.
Ah yes, the thrill of riding a mountain bike on a paved road with cars. Much better than mountain bike trails.
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Old 05-03-13, 07:04 AM
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He should have his medical certificate pulled. Shrinks are a dime a dozen anyway. They are the ones that couldnt make it in the real world of medicine.

As far as riding trails, a high percentage of people love mountain biking. They have every right to expect that deranged fools like that "doctor" has not booby trapped the trail.
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Old 05-03-13, 07:17 AM
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30 days seems pretty light for premeditated reckless endangerment and potential loss of life.
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Old 05-03-13, 07:36 AM
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As an avid mountain biker, I've pulled other riders aside to counsel them on trail etiquette. The better we behave, the fewer trails will be closed to us, and I'd bet, the fewer deranged lunatics we'll inspire.
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Old 05-03-13, 08:09 AM
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For those who have been around a while this sounds a lot like Mike Vandaman's (sp?) evil twin. I think Mike V. got into some trouble not that long ago for attacking some mountain bikers with a saw.

Locally, way back when, we had late author Harvey Manning (backpacking one step at a time) leading the anti MTB charge. Same arguments, accusations and vitriol 26 years ago as there is today. Yes we need to be courteous but will always be those who hate us no matter what.
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Old 05-03-13, 08:30 AM
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Originally Posted by kmv2 View Post
Ah yes, the thrill of riding a mountain bike on a paved road with cars. Much better than mountain bike trails.
I just love the sound of knobbies on pavement!
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Old 05-03-13, 08:46 AM
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Originally Posted by ItsJustMe View Post
30 days seems pretty light for premeditated reckless endangerment and potential loss of life.
Not for someone with no record - it actually sounds like an appropriate outcome. 2 years probation, loss of job and respect...I think it gets the point across.
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Old 05-03-13, 09:58 AM
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I think the appropriate punishment should have been to tie his hands behind his back, put him on an upright bicycle seat 3-1/2 feet off the ground and hit him with a branch moving at 20 miles an hour.

And if we could somehow put it on TV, it'll be the hottest reality TV show around. Just think of the ratings....
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Old 05-03-13, 02:26 PM
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Originally Posted by KonAaron Snake View Post
Not for someone with no record - it actually sounds like an appropriate outcome. 2 years probation, loss of job and respect...I think it gets the point across.
Perhaps if he were a 20 something and it was a one time deal.

He kept resetting the traps.

Speaking as a rider and official dog friend I'd say his dogs also need be given into better hands.
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Old 05-03-13, 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by KonAaron Snake View Post
Not for someone with no record - it actually sounds like an appropriate outcome. 2 years probation, loss of job and respect...I think it gets the point across.
While the court doesn't have jurisdiction to pull this sociopath's medical license, the state medical board sure better get it done. Such a person really can't be trusted to practice medicine, or much of anything else, imo.
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Old 05-03-13, 06:25 PM
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So what do you think drove him to this aberrant behaviour?
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Old 05-03-13, 06:35 PM
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Lack of perspective, self obsession and unhappiness at a guess.
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Old 05-03-13, 06:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Matariki View Post
So what do you think drove him to this aberrant behaviour?
From the linked story:

Ray said reports from the investigation indicated Dempsey walked his dog on the trails and did not like the mountain bikers who regularly rode by on downhill runs.
I'm going out on a limb and guessing that he objected to the manner in which (he believed) he was being passed.
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Old 05-04-13, 02:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Matariki View Post
So what do you think drove him to this aberrant behaviour?
Mental health issues.
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Old 05-04-13, 02:37 AM
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Originally Posted by KonAaron Snake View Post
Not for someone with no record - it actually sounds like an appropriate outcome. 2 years probation, loss of job and respect...I think it gets the point across.
This.
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Old 05-05-13, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by KonAaron Snake View Post
Not for someone with no record - it actually sounds like an appropriate outcome. 2 years probation, loss of job and respect...I think it gets the point across.
I agree that the sentence seems appropriate. If I were the judge I might have added or substituted some community service, maybe working on the trails, or speaking about proper response to perceived grievances.

OTOH- reading the advocacy forum, I suspect that only a very thin line exists between this person and some of the posters. It seems that in American society more and more people are feeling frustrated, put upon, and violated in some way, and some of those start acting out. It takes only a quick look at the Balkans to see that this can't lead to anything good.
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Old 05-06-13, 01:56 AM
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This story got a fair bit of press coverage. Link to a Mail Tribune story: https://www.mailtribune.com/apps/pbcs...NEWS/303060315. An excerpt from that story to which I added the bold/italics: "...Jordan Daniels, a Southern Oregon University student and frequent mountain biker, was riding down an unauthorized trail in the Ashland watershed on a morning in late June or early July last year when he saw something strung across the trail about 100 feet ahead of him. ..." Teresa Ristow/Mail Tribune

AP stories about the case were also posted to the Oregonian. Here's a link to one of those stories: https://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-no...atrist_ac.html, to which I posted a couple comments, and a part of one of my comments under my other weblog handle 'wsbtown':

"Some people seem to assume this guy was out to hurt people, when his objective may have been not to hurt them, but only to discourage people from riding certain trails. Either way, the means he chose to get the message across that he didn't like "downhill mountain bikers", wasn't appropriate.

There's been no statement from him reported, that he wanted to or intended to hurt people. His initially pleading 'not guilty' and now taking a plea deal, I suppose to boost his chances of getting a lesser sentence, may mean that why he chose these means, or what legitimate means he may have taken in past to express his view of mountain biking, may not become clearly known.... " wsbtown/wsbob

I think if somebody really wanted to use something strung across a trail to hurt bikers, they probably would have used something that couldn't be seen from 100' away, or even much closer. Also important, would be to learn what legitimate means Dempsey may have have attempted previous to stringing cords across trails and placing hazards on the trails. Despite his professional training and experience, I suppose, even this late in his life, it could be that he decided to resort to criminal means to resolve a problem. Another possibility is that if he had made legitimate efforts, to no avail, to resolve problems with unauthorized use of bikes on trails, he may simply have became worn down out of frustration to the point of using bad judgment in resorting to an option that, even if he didn't intend to hurt anyone, he failed to foresee the bad outcome his actions would bring about.

It's probably fair to say that fortunately, most people wouldn't take the approach Jackson Dempsey did to act on his frustration with unauthorized use of trail by people with bikes. Also though, that there may be many other people stressed out by inappropriate ways some people are managing use of their bikes on trail where people on foot may have occasion to travel.
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Old 05-06-13, 06:06 AM
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well Bob, becoming a junior deputy is never a solution, either in the woods or on the road. Lots of psychiatrists are smart enough to seek professional help, he should have done so
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Old 05-06-13, 07:55 AM
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+1...you might have a legitimate gripe, and you might have tried other solutions, but booby trapping a trail and hurting people isn't a valid response. There are a lot of things that irritate me on a daily basis...along the lines of what FBinNY was getting at...but it doesn't mean I get to hurt those responsible. This gentleman was held accountable for his actions and I'm sure the lesson will sting quite a bit. I think that most of the time reactions like this are caused by a more deep seated issue...depression, anger, etc. It's not normal for someone with a job and a stake in the system to risk his career like this over an irritant. I don't think the issue is cyclists, I think the issue is mental health.

I have a lot of responses that I'd like to make to FBinNY's post, but most of them would end up overly political...suffice it to say that I agree and think we're becoming an increasingly angry country with a lot of people who have a lot less to lose.
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Old 05-06-13, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by KonAaron Snake View Post
+1...you might have a legitimate gripe, and you might have tried other solutions, but booby trapping a trail and hurting people isn't a valid response. There are a lot of things that irritate me on a daily basis...along the lines of what FBinNY was getting at...but it doesn't mean I get to hurt those responsible. This gentleman was held accountable for his actions and I'm sure the lesson will sting quite a bit. I think that most of the time reactions like this are caused by a more deep seated issue...depression, anger, etc. It's not normal for someone with a job and a stake in the system to risk his career like this over an irritant. I don't think the issue is cyclists, I think the issue is mental health.

I have a lot of responses that I'd like to make to FBinNY's post, but most of them would end up overly political...suffice it to say that I agree and think we're becoming an increasingly angry country with a lot of people who have a lot less to lose.

As I said:
"Some people seem to assume this guy was out to hurt people, when his objective may have been not to hurt them, but only to discourage people from riding certain trails. Either way, the means he chose to get the message across that he didn't like "downhill mountain bikers", wasn't appropriate.
He may not have intended to hurt people. Not knowing in greater detail why people accused of crimes have done things they're accused of, can be one of the downsides of cases like this not going to trial. According to news stories, he did though, change his plea to guilty, and publicly apologize to mountain bikers, his family and members of his profession. To me, that's an encouraging sign that he's thought over what he did, and hopefully...truly realizes his actions were wrong.


"...I think that most of the time reactions like this are caused by a more deep seated issue...depression, anger, etc. ..." KonAaron Snake


Probably true, but there's nothing new about people doing things that aren't well thought out, because they're angry or depressed. On the other hand, lots of bad things may be happening because society doesn't want to listen to people having problems. I wish more had been reported about whether, before deciding to string lines across trail and throw hazards onto it, he had followed any legitimate procedures to bring attention to unauthorized use of trail. And also, if before his actions on the trail, he had been having personal mood or other health issues. To avoid possibly bigger problems in future, these are the kinds of things that should be known about people involved in certain types of incidents.

Last edited by wsbob; 05-06-13 at 11:43 AM.
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Old 05-07-13, 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted by unterhausen View Post
well Bob, becoming a junior deputy is never a solution, either in the woods or on the road. Lots of psychiatrists are smart enough to seek professional help, he should have done so
No, but it certainly adds more context to what often turns into a witch-hunt.
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