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A grim reminder that bicyclists need to obey traffic signals

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A grim reminder that bicyclists need to obey traffic signals

Old 05-07-13, 03:55 PM
  #76  
plumberroy
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First off you must not have seen a doctor lately. You have to sign a release to allow the doctor to discuss your medical condition with your spouse. Hippa in a nutshell is any one not directly connected to your care. can not have information about your care/condition without your written permission and Non medical healthcare workers can be held liable for overheard info. We get refresher coarse on it yearly When hired we are given a list of things that will mean immediate termenation hippa voilations is on that list . You can post what you want my job depends on knowing hippa rules does yours

All I am saying as far as a car the fastest bicycle without a steep ramp or an assist by a motor vehicle could not out run a geo metro on a mile track.
CB they really aren't screwing with bicyclist when the set the sensitivity on the trip wires for lights . If you set them where most bikes would trip them sooner or later a group of kids would set about screwing up traffic with a few peices of scrap metal .
they are set as light as possable but heavy enough to not be tripped by a peice of all thread or metal conduit I know kids do this crap because at ten or eleven A group of us dropped the train gates all the way through town All it took was a piece of copper wire at each gate. I do not think they work the same way now.
I looked up the idaho stop law you need to be calling and writting your goverment reps till they know you by name the squeaking wheel gets oiled If this is what you want as law I would sign a petiton in Oh. for it I don't see a safety issue rolling up to a stop ready to stop if needed and going on through if safe I don't think it is safe to go through a stop at 15 mph never will

The problem I have with police not stopping cyclist is a treat every one equal problem . Just the same as giving a guy a ticket for speeding and letting a cute blonde go with a warning . And you know it happens
Roy
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Old 05-07-13, 04:22 PM
  #77  
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Originally Posted by plumberroy View Post
Giving a patients name out will get your ass fired periodAs far police not thinking cyclist violations as serious, I think it is a money thing because they are handing out tickets right and left downtown for no blinkie lights after dark, a $122 fine. Local shop has a sign up warning of it and a local club is giving blinkie light out free.
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They love to fine cyclists, when a cyclist does something wrong. But when it comes to a cyclist's safety, they could care less.
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Old 05-07-13, 04:30 PM
  #78  
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Originally Posted by Chris516 View Post
They love to fine cyclists, when a cyclist does something wrong. But when it comes to a cyclist's safety, they could care less.
Depends on where you are. In lots of places in the US, that's really not true. I know it could be true where you live.

There are jerks on every force, of course, but you can't make a name for yourself as a tough cop by hassling people on bicycles, so even most of the jerks pick other victims.
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Old 05-07-13, 04:45 PM
  #79  
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My new lesson to avoid running red light and other accidents: start your ride early enough so you will not have to rush in order not to be late for whatever you are heading to. I am usually a slow rider, but today I was a little late so all I was thinking during my ride was "hurry, I'll be late!" In one instance I tried to squeeze between two stopped cars at red light to get in front of them (not running red light, though), and instead I touched one car's mirror slightly. In another instance I was impatient to cross a T intersection where a group of kids were led past. Only because I was trying to catch time.
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Old 05-07-13, 07:21 PM
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Originally Posted by plumberroy View Post
CB they really aren't screwing with bicyclist when the set the sensitivity on the trip wires for lights . If you set them where most bikes would trip them sooner or later a group of kids would set about screwing up traffic with a few peices of scrap metal .
they are set as light as possable but heavy enough to not be tripped by a peice of all thread or metal conduit I know kids do this crap because at ten or eleven A group of us dropped the train gates all the way through town All it took was a piece of copper wire at each gate. I do not think they work the same way now. Roy
Another load of your BS. You just make this stuff up, don't you. No City or state adjust their inductance sensors based on fear that kids will mess with them.

When YOU manage to get the Idaho stop law established in Ohio, then YOU can preach to the rest of us, until then YOU should STFU.

Still waiting for that news article from you.
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Old 05-07-13, 07:33 PM
  #81  
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Originally Posted by plumberroy View Post
...CB they really aren't screwing with bicyclist when the set the sensitivity on the trip wires for lights . If you set them where most bikes would trip them sooner or later a group of kids would set about screwing up traffic with a few peices of scrap metal .
they are set as light as possable but heavy enough to not be tripped by a peice of all thread or metal conduit...
I suppose there are many different sets of "they", but I only have experience with my local set of folks who set the sensitivity of the detection loops. Their reason for not setting them to detect bikes had nothing to do with people placing metallic crap on the roads, unless you consider cyclists as that crap. They felt it was more important to prevent any false positives (detecting vehicles in adjacent lanes) than it was to avoid false negatives (cyclists waiting for the signal to change that won't detect them). After an intervention by a former mayor, I worked with four of these clowns to get a signal detector to work properly. This was a very old loop and it could be set to detect bikes, although it had to be set outside the default setting. The work crew was furious that they were being forced to do this, which I interpreted as a desire to screw with cyclists.
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Old 05-07-13, 07:50 PM
  #82  
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Originally Posted by B. Carfree View Post
I suppose there are many different sets of "they", but I only have experience with my local set of folks who set the sensitivity of the detection loops. Their reason for not setting them to detect bikes had nothing to do with people placing metallic crap on the roads, unless you consider cyclists as that crap. They felt it was more important to prevent any false positives (detecting vehicles in adjacent lanes) than it was to avoid false negatives (cyclists waiting for the signal to change that won't detect them).
Exactly the claim that Hawaii State and the Cities here use in refusing to set them properly for all road users. But it does give a valid claim for me to run any red light I wish because I know the light sensor is defective for cyclist.
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Old 05-07-13, 07:53 PM
  #83  
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Originally Posted by B. Carfree View Post
The work crew was furious that they were being forced to do this, which I interpreted as a desire to screw with cyclists.
Maybe. I've forced a couple of municipalities to recalibrate or change sensors. The engineers were usually way madder at me than the crews, because the engineers were the ones whose professional competence was being challenged. The work crews get paid by the hour.
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Old 05-08-13, 04:47 AM
  #84  
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YOU can preach to the rest of us, until then YOU should STFU.

.
Pretty easy to be mouthy when you are 4450 miles away CB. I don't worry about idaho stops . I just follow the law and stop . I have worked construction and maintenance judging from your adolesent attitude since you were a baby maybe even before you were born. tripping from vehicle in the other lane is a concern too! they can be designed to have a spot to trip easier but that takes more saw cutting we have a lot that has a zigzag pattern to encrease the amount of wire /sensing field in the loop just so we can lay a piece of metal on it to hold a gate open for constrution traffic with out changing settings
Kalliergo is right enginneers tend to be arogant when you question them and most engineers would hurt themselves if they actually had to use tools
Being mouthy on the internet doesn't change things getting enough people together and annoying the hell out of city and state goverment will change things You can fight goverment on things like the trips I called the city waterworks on the location of several new fire hydrant and was told tough luck . After talking to a dozen township and county officials they were moved
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Old 05-08-13, 07:57 AM
  #85  
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Originally Posted by plumberroy View Post
Pretty easy to be mouthy when you are 4450 miles away CB. I don't worry about idaho stops . I just follow the law and stop . I have worked construction and maintenance judging from your adolesent attitude since you were a baby maybe even before you were born.
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Old 05-08-13, 09:30 AM
  #86  
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Re: sensors Locally (San Jose, Los altos, Mt. view at least) I am seeing more and more bike specific sensors for lights and left hand turn lights. These typically have a bicycle sympol with a lines to indicate orientation and clearly have (recen work shows the cuts) a much denser set of detector wires at that position. There are some intersectsion where the same symbol is used so that the bike is in postion to be recognized by a camera that helps control the signal.

There was a CA law passed a couple of years ago that mandated bicycle sensitive sensors for new or rework intersections, but no specifics on technology and no funding so it is up to cities to find a working technology and funding
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Old 05-08-13, 02:42 PM
  #87  
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Originally Posted by plumberroy View Post
Pretty easy to be mouthy when you are 4450 miles away CB. I don't worry about idaho stops . I just follow the law and stop . I have worked construction and maintenance judging from your adolesent attitude since you were a baby maybe even before you were born. tripping from vehicle in the other lane is a concern too!
Guy, your the one that has come into the forums with your adolesent anti-kitted cyclist nanny dictatorship know all attitude. You have gone off topic in every thread you have joined with your off based agenda.

I have challenged you to come up with a single news article backing your claims of death to not only kitted cyclist that you hate, but to make it easy for you, any cyclist killed in Cincinatti by blowing through a red light. You said it would be easy, just a couple minutes on the internet. Yet days later, you have failed to back up your nanny claims of death.
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Old 05-08-13, 03:26 PM
  #88  
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Plummy and the OP are over estimating the risks associated with rolling through stop signs and red lights. If done correctly, a cyclist doing so is actually safer than waiting at the red light.
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Old 05-08-13, 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by CB HI View Post
Guy, your the one that has come into the forums with your adolesent anti-kitted cyclist nanny dictatorship know all attitude. You have gone off topic in every thread you have joined with your off based agenda.

I have challenged you to come up with a single news article backing your claims of death to not only kitted cyclist that you hate, but to make it easy for you, any cyclist killed in Cincinatti by blowing through a red light. You said it would be easy, just a couple minutes on the internet. Yet days later, you have failed to back up your nanny claims of death.
First I don't hate kitted cyclist I am annoyed by kitted cyclist that think they are the only ones that matter, and this area READ greater cinncinati is the only place I have seen this in enough people to group them together I have lived and ridden in central Ohio, Fl. east central In. Mo. and W.V. There are dozen of cyclist hit running light No I haven't found on fo Cincy also as I said the next time I ride the little miami trail I will get the names of the crosses And I know the procedure for mal****ioning lights in Oh. reguarding trip wire light turn right when safe and turn around . I don't live in Hawaii so no I don't know the law there. Looked for it online then ask a sherriff .
Maybe. I've forced a couple of municipalities to recalibrate or change sensors. The engineers were usually way madder at me than the crews, because the engineers were the ones whose professional competence was being challenged. The work crews get paid by the hour.
Guys doing don't care and may be enjoying it as you say they are hourly and in a lot of situations have alread told the engineer he was wrong
Being a do-gooder doesn't always keep you safe either, plum. Just ask the guy who, with his child in a bike trailer, was rear ended by a car while he waited at the red light.
Agent pombero That story is bad luckily the child and dad wasn't seriously hurt yes you are right doing everything right and you still get hurt . Driver would have had a lot more serious injuries If I was the one hit with a child on back I have lost one do about anything you want to me. Mess with one of my little ones you better pray God has mercy on you because I won't
CB I will post the name when I get out there other than that I am off this thread
Be blessed and be safe every one
Roy
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Old 05-08-13, 05:50 PM
  #90  
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Originally Posted by plumberroy View Post
First I don't hate kitted cyclist I am annoyed by kitted cyclist that think they are the only ones that matter, and this area READ greater cinncinati is the only place I have seen this in enough people to group them together I have lived and ridden in central Ohio, Fl. east central In. Mo. and W.V. There are dozen of cyclist hit running light No I haven't found on fo Cincy also as I said the next time I ride the little miami trail I will get the names of the crosses And I know the procedure for mal****ioning lights in Oh. reguarding trip wire light turn right when safe and turn around . I don't live in Hawaii so no I don't know the law there. Looked for it online then ask a sherriff .

Guys doing don't care and may be enjoying it as you say they are hourly and in a lot of situations have alread told the engineer he was wrong

Agent pombero That story is bad luckily the child and dad wasn't seriously hurt yes you are right doing everything right and you still get hurt . Driver would have had a lot more serious injuries If I was the one hit with a child on back I have lost one do about anything you want to me. Mess with one of my little ones you better pray God has mercy on you because I won't
CB I will post the name when I get out there other than that I am off this thread
Be blessed and be safe every one
Roy
Your post that are not worth your time proof reading, are certainly not worth anyones time trying to read them.
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Old 05-08-13, 08:42 PM
  #91  
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Originally Posted by agent pombero View Post
Plummy and the OP are over estimating the risks associated with rolling through stop signs and red lights. If done correctly, a cyclist doing so is actually safer than waiting at the red light.

The death of the red light running cyclist the OP provided a link to a story about, says they aren't overestimating the risks associated with rolling through stop signs and red lights. Even the sharpest, best trained people make mistakes. Too bad for 33-year-old Gary-Dea Kahunanui. Kind of hard to know, now, why Gary-Dea didn't manage to stop for the red light. Maybe, pombero, he just didn't have eyes like your self described, "eagle eyes". https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/2...ni-hwy-on-maui
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Old 05-09-13, 07:22 AM
  #92  
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Wsbob, a few articles about a cyclist getting killed for going through a red light isn;t enough data to say it is a dangerous activity.
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Old 05-09-13, 08:07 AM
  #93  
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Originally Posted by wsbob View Post
The death of the red light running cyclist the OP provided a link to a story about, says they aren't overestimating the risks associated with rolling through stop signs and red lights.
An anecdote doesn't really say anything about relative risk; if I linked a story of a cyclist being killed by someone rear-ending them while they're sitting idly at a red light, that wouldn't indicate that we should obviously all be running red lights to avoid the rear-ending menace. Risks are correctly estimated with data, not with anecdotes.

Even with good data, that only tells us so much about how risky a behavior is for an individual. It could be conclusively demonstrated that rolling red lights is generally riskier than waiting for them, yet this wouldn't prove that a particularly attentive individual is at more risk rolling a red than sitting at it. This is why individuals should be making context based judgment calls rather than there being laws that attempt to enforce a one size fits all solution.
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Old 05-09-13, 09:09 AM
  #94  
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Originally Posted by Brandonub View Post
An anecdote doesn't really say anything about relative risk; if I linked a story of a cyclist being killed by someone rear-ending them while they're sitting idly at a red light, that wouldn't indicate that we should obviously all be running red lights to avoid the rear-ending menace. Risks are correctly estimated with data, not with anecdotes.

Even with good data, that only tells us so much about how risky a behavior is for an individual. It could be conclusively demonstrated that rolling red lights is generally riskier than waiting for them, yet this wouldn't prove that a particularly attentive individual is at more risk rolling a red than sitting at it. This is why individuals should be making context based judgment calls rather than there being laws that attempt to enforce a one size fits all solution.
So should the individuals making context based judgement calls apply to cars, trucks, motorcycles also? And if no why not?

The bottom line is things like stops signs, red lights and traffic rules in general are in place because there is history of people not making good context based judgement calls.
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Old 05-09-13, 10:04 AM
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Originally Posted by squirtdad View Post
So should the individuals making context based judgement calls apply to cars, trucks, motorcycles also? And if no why not?
Cars, trucks, and motorcycles should be subjected to a higher standard than cyclists because their actions are far, far more likely to impact others. A mistake by a cyclist is generally likely to result in injury only to the cyclist. Compared to cars, there's a massive differential of risk and power involved here.

Personally, I think laws should be written to reflect the inherent differences in both power and mechanics; the Idaho stop law is a very good example of that. It's reasonable and practical to allow cyclists to treat stop signs as yield signs, while the same is not true for cars.

Originally Posted by squirtdad View Post
The bottom line is things like stops signs, red lights and traffic rules in general are in place because there is history of people not making good context based judgement calls.
Yet it's not at all cut and dry that these sorts of measures are the best approach to handling traffic safety, even when only cars are involved. There's a reason that many new intersections are built with round abouts rather than traditional traffic control devices. Traffic control devices have the unfortunate effect of decreasing situational awareness, as people are lulled into a false sense of security. This prevents people from making context based judgement calls, as they're instead acting according to signals. Cyclists, by the nature of their mode of transportation, are more or less perpetually making judgement calls with concern for their well being in a fashion that drivers simply don't.
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Old 05-09-13, 10:58 AM
  #96  
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Originally Posted by Brandonub View Post
snip Cars, trucks, and motorcycles should be subjected to a higher standard than cyclists because their actions are far, far more likely to impact others. A mistake by a cyclist is generally likely to result in injury only to the cyclist. Compared to cars, there's a massive differential of risk and power involved here.
snip


.
That completely ignores consequences other than a direct collision, like cyclist running a red light, and a car doing evasive move and hitting another car or in the event that only the cyclist is hurt/killed the the psychological trauma on the driver who just killed some one though no fault of their own. (this is a real thing....occurs often with train engineers, especially with suicide by train)

Running a red light (by any vehicle) and making a judgement error is simply not safe. And people make judgement errors all the time.

In all the posts over the years I have never seen a justification for running red lights that does not basically come down to "i am a cyclist, I am special" narcissm that cyclists would never accept from any other group of vehicles.
I don't want to stop because I have to work hard to get up to speed is not differnt than I don't want to stop because it takes extra gas.
I want to save time is pretty universal.
I am always safe and have good judgement, maybe but I haven't seen a perfect person yet . etc.

can't have it both ways either we use the roads and follow the rules or we don't use the roads.

perfect...no, but better than alternatives.
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Old 05-09-13, 02:43 PM
  #97  
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Originally Posted by squirtdad View Post
In all the posts over the years I have never seen a justification for running red lights that does not basically come down to "i am a cyclist, I am special" narcissm that cyclists would never accept from any other group of vehicles.
i have a commuter that simply does not trigger loop detectors and am therefore forced to run a red on one of my commuting routes. (the road leads into a t so there is no ped crossing).

although thinking about it again maybe the fact that i own a bike like this makes me narcissistic.
never mind.

still...the entire gist of your comment is moot since the idaho stop law shows that allowing light running, if anything, correlates with a slight improvement in cyclist safety.
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Old 05-09-13, 03:05 PM
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Originally Posted by squirtdad View Post
I don't want to stop because I have to work hard to get up to speed is not differnt than I don't want to stop because it takes extra gas.
It's entirely different. If you don't understand that now, you will, someday, when you have a physical disability or limitation that demonstrates forcefully just how different it is. Well, you will unless you die suddenly, young and healthy, or stop riding a bike before your body begins betraying you, as I promise it will.

I want to save time is pretty universal.
Who says they run stop signs or red lights to save time? Point 'em out to me and I'll join you in telling them they're crazy.

I am always safe and have good judgement, maybe but I haven't seen a perfect person yet . etc.
Who said that? Where?

can't have it both ways either we use the roads and follow the rules or we don't use the roads.
OK. I promise to come to a complete, foot-down stop at stop signs just as often as motorists bring their wheels to an absolute halt, so we will all be following the same rule in the same way.

Alternatively, I'll be happy to put a foot down at every stop sign, if that's what the motorists behind me really want.
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Old 05-09-13, 03:58 PM
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Brandonub
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Originally Posted by squirtdad View Post
In all the posts over the years I have never seen a justification for running red lights that does not basically come down to "i am a cyclist, I am special" narcissm
Ah, I think I've discovered the problem - you flatly ignore people when they provide such justification.
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Old 05-09-13, 04:24 PM
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I am sure the family of Gary-Dea would be interested in hearing all the reasons it is ok to run red lights.
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