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A grim reminder that bicyclists need to obey traffic signals

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A grim reminder that bicyclists need to obey traffic signals

Old 05-05-13, 04:56 AM
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robble
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A grim reminder that bicyclists need to obey traffic signals

We can't really blame this death on the car..
https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/2...ni-hwy-on-maui
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Old 05-05-13, 05:40 AM
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I rode 26 miles of the little miami scenic trail yesterday. there are 2 crosses in this section for people killed at the crossings. One of the crosses has Stop, Look, Live on it plus the name. Most of the kitted out cyclist I saw blew right through the crossings. All marked with stop signs. I did see a van blowing his horn aproaching a crossing on a curve as an extra warning. Sad part is even with this accident not being the drivers fault , he will likely be traumatized by it for a long time
Roy
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Old 05-05-13, 08:47 AM
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In reading the article, I'm overjoyed that the commercial van driver was uninjured in the crash, and that they were wearing their seat belt.
A well know person in our community was struck and killed while walking in a signaled crosswalk by a left turning motorist, not on single comment about her not wearing a helmet.

An unfortunate event, my condolences to the cyclist.
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Old 05-05-13, 09:02 AM
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The rider didn't get hit by a traffic signal, he got hit by a car. Watch out for approaching vehicles when at crossroads.
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Old 05-05-13, 10:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Looigi View Post
The rider didn't get hit by a traffic signal, he got hit by a car. Watch out for approaching vehicles when at crossroads.
He got hit because he thought the law didn't apply to him and ignored the light. The same cyclist that scream for equal rights to use the road think they shouldn't have to follow the same rules. The sad fact is if the cyclist obeyed the law and came to a stop , his family,friends and loved ones would not by greiving and broken hearted today.
Riding a bicycle doesn't exempt you from traffic laws.
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Old 05-05-13, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by dynodonn View Post
In reading the article, I'm overjoyed that the commercial van driver was uninjured in the crash, and that they were wearing their seat belt.
A well know person in our community was struck and killed while walking in a signaled crosswalk by a left turning motorist, not on single comment about her not wearing a helmet.

An unfortunate event, my condolences to the cyclist.
Thanks for the comment. Seriously. My condolences also.
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Old 05-05-13, 10:22 AM
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One time, while waiting for a shuttle van, I counted 10 out of 13 cars not come to a complete stop at a stop sign. It's not just a cyclist thing...
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Old 05-05-13, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by mconlonx View Post
One time, while waiting for a shuttle van, I counted 10 out of 13 cars not come to a complete stop at a stop sign. It's not just a cyclist thing...
Very true but when trying to get through an intersection at speed the car wins all ties
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Old 05-05-13, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by mconlonx View Post
One time, while waiting for a shuttle van, I counted 10 out of 13 cars not come to a complete stop at a stop sign. It's not just a cyclist thing...
Doesn't sound like this is an "incomplete stop" problem. The cyclist appears to have crossed one lane of cross traffic before being broadsided in the left lane. It would be a safe guess that he blew the stop at speed.

Here's the satellite view (cyclist traveling westbound, van driver northbound in left lane):

https://goo.gl/maps/WtbGh

Sorry for his family, glad nobody else was hurt. Hope the driver gets counseling/support.
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Old 05-05-13, 11:00 AM
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Grim reminder, indeed. The other day I was at a very quiet local intersection about to cross a small street. My light had just turned red. No car was in sight and I saw even some pedestrians (who had better view of any oncoming traffic) were beginning to cross. So I thought, OK, they saw no car, too. I was just about to slowly cross, when a car sped through passing the pedestrians then me. Thankfully I was very slow. Had I run the light in high speed it would be a different day for me.

My lesson from this is, don't trust other people's judgment or eyesight even when they might have better view of the traffic. Obey the traffic rules.
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Old 05-05-13, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by vol View Post
... don't trust other people's judgment or eyesight even when they might have better view of the traffic. Obey the traffic rules.
I agree with the first part of this in that, as a rider, you need to use every sense you have to observe, analyze, and anticipate road hazards (moving or stationary) so that you have time to react safely.

Obeying the traffic rules? In general, yes, do this, but: All of us have observed that most of the traffic rules have been enacted to keep motorists out of trouble; however strategic disobedience sometimes makes cycling safer and easier. For example, riding through a just-changed red to avoid the catch-up of the pile of raging traffic behind; rolling through a stop at the bottom of a hill so that you maintain some momentum for the hill right after the intersection; turning right on red and then pulling a U-turn because you know you will not trigger the left turn signal at this intersection; riding the wrong way on a sedate one-way street to avoid the aggressive traffic on the parallel streets.

I admit to doing all of these things, but I do them only when safely possible (and with full radar alert). I don't know how the victim was riding, but that 40 mph cross street looks like it has a lot of traffic making it essential to approach the intersection with caution.
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Old 05-05-13, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by robble View Post
We can't really blame this death on the car.
I have not seen anyone even remotely try to blame the motorist for this one since the story first broke.
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Old 05-05-13, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by plumberroy View Post
I rode 26 miles of the little miami scenic trail yesterday. there are 2 crosses in this section for people killed at the crossings. One of the crosses has Stop, Look, Live on it plus the name. Most of the kitted out cyclist I saw blew right through the crossings. All marked with stop signs. I did see a van blowing his horn aproaching a crossing on a curve as an extra warning. Sad part is even with this accident not being the drivers fault , he will likely be traumatized by it for a long time
Roy
Originally Posted by plumberroy View Post
He got hit because he thought the law didn't apply to him and ignored the light. The same cyclist that scream for equal rights to use the road think they shouldn't have to follow the same rules. The sad fact is if the cyclist obeyed the law and came to a stop , his family,friends and loved ones would not by greiving and broken hearted today.
Riding a bicycle doesn't exempt you from traffic laws.
Roy
More of your total BS thrown out just for trolling purposes. Give your off base agenda a break.

Every news report, including the one you just read, but with reading comprehension problems it seems, said the cyclist was not wearing a helmet. That means he was not a kitted out cyclist - so either you are clueless or you are trolling this death for your own false agenda.

How do you know he broke the law? Both Hawaii State and the Counties here refuse to set traffic light sensors so they will detect a bicycle. The only places traffic light sensors are set properly here, are on military bases. So the cyclist may have been legally proceeding through a red light; and he just screwed up not looking carefully enough for the van. The utility pole, left turn signs and bushes all make it hard to see approaching cross traffic at this intersection, especially since most of the traffic exceeds the 40 mph speed limit here.
https://goo.gl/maps/kP04b

Of all the cyclist deaths over many years, I have only known one case where the motorist truly lived with the cyclist death for the rest of their lives. That case was a professional truck driver in Florida that stopped trucking and talked to other drivers about safe trucking after the cyclist death. Some motorist even joke about the cyclist they killed. Most cyclist killers just move on with their lives just fine. If you do have any cases of motorist that stopped driving after killing a cyclist, I am interested in reading about those cases.


So give your off base trolling agenda a break for awhile.
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Old 05-05-13, 12:39 PM
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Expecting someone to follow the law is B.S. ********** Are the laws that much different in Hi. ? Or are you just the elitist that think that since your on a bike the rules don't apply to you. Here in Oh. unless posted otherwise bicycles follow the same rules as cars. Pisses me off to see police ignore bikes breaking traffic laws that they would stop a car for .
The excuse cars do it too is no excuse and usually gets more people hurt when they get caught. This is what happens when pickups do it and are not paying atention
https://www.indystar.com/article/AB/2...le-fatal-crash
Ever bury your teenage kid??? I have, it ain't fun !!! The guy run through a stoplight which is against the law He is dead his suffering is done , leaving those who love and care for him devasted greiving and broken hearted and the driver of the vehicle who even though he wasn't in the wrong to have to live with the death of a cyclist
Roy
P.S. There is a big difference rolling up to a stop sign at walking speed and going on through which is what most cars I see do (still wrong) and blowing through with out even touching the brakes which is common here with bikers
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Old 05-05-13, 01:07 PM
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Originally Posted by CB HI View Post
So the cyclist may have been legally proceeding through a red light; and he just screwed up not looking carefully enough for the van.
Maybe. It's hard to tell from the satellite and street views. But I'm skeptical.

The utility pole, left turn signs and bushes all make it hard to see approaching cross traffic at this intersection, especially since most of the traffic exceeds the 40 mph speed limit here.
Examining the street view, it appears that you are correct, WRT to the view to the left from the limit line. It does not appear, however, that traffic from either direction, or oncoming/turning traffic, is difficult to see if one stops at the limit line and then eases forward into the crosswalk before proceeding -- especially traffic from the left in its left lane.

Even if it's perfectly legal to treat signals that don't respond to bikes as inoperative (as it is here in California), I wouldn't even think about doing so at that intersection unless I could see for a long way in both cross-traffic directions. I'm not too proud, or too much in a hurry, to dismount and use the crosswalk and the pedestrian signals.

Another strategy for situations like that is, when there is other traffic waiting for the same light, to move to the side and wave a motorist into first position, activating the sensor. I've done it dozens of times. Fortunately, around here, almost all of the loops have been fixed by now.

Regardless, if there is evidence to suggest that an unresponsive loop detector was a contributor to this death, local cyclists need to raise holy hell with the state and county. That's just unacceptable. It kills people.
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Old 05-05-13, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by plumberroy View Post
P.S. There is a big difference rolling up to a stop sign at walking speed and going on through which is what most cars I see do (still wrong) and blowing through with out even touching the brakes which is common here with bikers
Even at walking speed, a motor vehicle carries with it a considerable amount of energy, add the rigidity of it's structural metal, and a motor vehicle can do more considerably more damage than a cyclist traveling at a higher speed.
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Old 05-05-13, 01:32 PM
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Originally Posted by CB HI View Post
More of your total BS thrown out just for trolling purposes. Give your off base agenda a break.

Every news report, including the one you just read, but with reading comprehension problems it seems, said the cyclist was not wearing a helmet. That means he was not a kitted out cyclist - so either you are clueless or you are trolling this death for your own false agenda.

How do you know he broke the law? Both Hawaii State and the Counties here refuse to set traffic light sensors so they will detect a bicycle. The only places traffic light sensors are set properly here, are on military bases. So the cyclist may have been legally proceeding through a red light; and he just screwed up not looking carefully enough for the van. The utility pole, left turn signs and bushes all make it hard to see approaching cross traffic at this intersection, especially since most of the traffic exceeds the 40 mph speed limit here.
https://goo.gl/maps/kP04b

Of all the cyclist deaths over many years, I have only known one case where the motorist truly lived with the cyclist death for the rest of their lives. That case was a professional truck driver in Florida that stopped trucking and talked to other drivers about safe trucking after the cyclist death. Some motorist even joke about the cyclist they killed. Most cyclist killers just move on with their lives just fine. If you do have any cases of motorist that stopped driving after killing a cyclist, I am interested in reading about those cases.


So give your off base trolling agenda a break for awhile.
First I said most kitted out riders not all . I find it hard to believe some one came to a full or evn near stop looked both ways and pulled out in front of a van
Sensor not tripped by a bike happens at the mouth of my neighborhood all the time I just get off hit the crosswalk button walk the bike across the street and continue.
A motorist joking about killing a cyclist should be beat to within an inch of their life several times catch me in just the wrong mood and I would not be above doing it myself
I don't know anyone who has hit a cyclist My Brother in law hit an elderly lady who ran a stop sign and was suffering from alzheimer's she didn't survive does he drive still ? yes He has a family to support and in rural areas a bike just isn't practical to get around does he still have nightmares yes just because you manage to go about your life does not mean bad thing don't haunt you
Honestly until 4 years ago I lived in a rural area. I know several riders who ride in full bike gear all were nice people spoke when we past would stop to see if you need help no different than every other rider Since moving to Cincinnati approximately 60% of full gear riders I have crossed paths with run from elitist who think their above the law to flat out jerks and I must not be alone because I hear "spadex jerks" or "spadex jackasses" used to discribe these type of riders often in this area

Roy
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Old 05-05-13, 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by dynodonn View Post
Even at walking speed, a motor vehicle carries with it a considerable amount of energy, add the rigidity of it's structural metal, and a motor vehicle can do more considerably more damage than a cyclist traveling at a higher speed.
Yep blow throw a stop sign at speed and even hit a stopped car you will end up with the short end of the stick there is no situation where you on a 30# or less bike colide with a ton of steel and that is a small car where your body doesn't get the bad end of the deal reguardless of who is at fault. I have a wife kids and grandkids I would like to come home to . It is just simpler to stop and be safe
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Old 05-05-13, 01:50 PM
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Originally Posted by plumberroy View Post
Yep blow throw a stop sign at speed and even hit a stopped car you will end up with the short end of the stick there is no situation where you on a 30# or less bike colide with a ton of steel and that is a small car where your body doesn't get the bad end of the deal reguardless of who is at fault. I have a wife kids and grandkids I would like to come home to . It is just simpler to stop and be safe
Roy
Running a stop sign or stop light is not the problem for most cyclists, it's not visually inspecting the intersection thoroughly so it is safely clear of traffic before proceeding through is the main trouble spot.
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Old 05-05-13, 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by dynodonn View Post
Running a stop sign or stop light is not the problem for most cyclists, it's not visually inspecting the intersection thoroughly so it is safely clear of traffic before proceeding through is the main trouble spot.
That is what gets you in trouble in any vehicle . The fact still is At least in Ohio that stop sign or light applies to cyclist too. Running a stop sign is against the law . Way to many cyclist here in my area think is should not apply to them. And they get away with it I have seen people blow through a stop right in front of police and not get stopped . Fact is the only person I know of ever stopped on a bike was me . I got a written warning for speeding 32 in a 20 mph (30 years ago 100 lbs ago and a big hill )
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Old 05-05-13, 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted by plumberroy View Post
He got hit because he thought the law didn't apply to him and ignored the light. ...
No. He didn't get hit because he ignored a law or the light, he got hit by a car. No car, he wouldn't have gotten hit, regardless of the law or lights.

You can obey the law and stop for the traffic light, proceed when it's green, and still get hit by a crossing car that doesn't stop.

Punishment for breaking the law is a fine or incarceration, not getting hit by a car. At least in this country.

Last edited by Looigi; 05-05-13 at 04:21 PM.
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Old 05-05-13, 03:44 PM
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Originally Posted by plumberroy View Post
That is what gets you in trouble in any vehicle . The fact still is At least in Ohio that stop sign or light applies to cyclist too. Running a stop sign is against the law . Way to many cyclist here in my area think is should not apply to them. And they get away with it I have seen people blow through a stop right in front of police and not get stopped . Fact is the only person I know of ever stopped on a bike was me . I got a written warning for speeding 32 in a 20 mph (30 years ago 100 lbs ago and a big hill )


Maybe local law enforcement in the last 30 years has become more versed in the threat posed by cyclists versus motorists.
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Old 05-05-13, 05:10 PM
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Originally Posted by plumberroy View Post
Expecting someone to follow the law is B.S. ********** Are the laws that much different in Hi. ? Or are you just the elitist that think that since your on a bike the rules don't apply to you. Here in Oh. unless posted otherwise bicycles follow the same rules as cars. Pisses me off to see police ignore bikes breaking traffic laws that they would stop a car for .
The excuse cars do it too is no excuse and usually gets more people hurt when they get caught. This is what happens when pickups do it and are not paying atention
https://www.indystar.com/article/AB/2...le-fatal-crash
Ever bury your teenage kid??? I have, it ain't fun !!! The guy run through a stoplight which is against the law He is dead his suffering is done , leaving those who love and care for him devasted greiving and broken hearted and the driver of the vehicle who even though he wasn't in the wrong to have to live with the death of a cyclist
Roy
P.S. There is a big difference rolling up to a stop sign at walking speed and going on through which is what most cars I see do (still wrong) and blowing through with out even touching the brakes which is common here with bikers
Your post indicates that you do not understand the law as related to nonfunctioning traffic signals. Forgive me for assuming you actually understood the law since you like flaming others for what you believe was unlawful behavior.

And again, you appear to be off on some tangent agenda, rather than this cyclist death.
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Old 05-05-13, 05:13 PM
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While I don't know if the cyclist ran a red light, I see that kind of thing from several bike club riders of the regional biking club. Almost assuredly guaranteeing me to be a witness to a cycling fatality.
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Old 05-05-13, 05:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Looigi View Post
Punishment for breaking the law is a fine or incarceration, not getting hit by a car. At least in this country.
It's not the punishment, but in this case and many others, it was the consequence!
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