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Lessons in bike riding in city traffic via the NY Times

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Lessons in bike riding in city traffic via the NY Times

Old 05-07-13, 06:53 AM
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Lessons in bike riding in city traffic via the NY Times

https://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/07/ny....html?src=recg

I wonder what percentage of NYC's bike riders will take a class and whether it will affect other cyclists by osmosis.
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Old 05-07-13, 09:39 AM
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That's my LBS, Red Lantern Bicycles. Great people there. I'm glad they offered their space for the class, hopefully some people got something out of it. Really, riding a bike here is not all that bad. I have never had anything thrown at me and only a few times has someone shouted something. Drivers are generally respectful and know you'll be there.

That said, good route choice is an important thing I do to stay safe, and most people don't even think about it. I almost never ride on multi-lane high traffic roads. I stick to the (generally very nice) bike lanes when I can--it's usually only a block or so out of the way, I take the lane when I need to, and I have very few issues because of this. And of course, I try to be alert and vigilant.
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Old 05-07-13, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by lostarchitect View Post
...route choice is an important thing I do to stay safe, and most people don't even think about it...I almost never...I stick to the (generally very nice) bike lanes when I can--it's usually only a block or so out of the way...I stick to
I am glad that your cautious style of cycling works for you. But what works for *you* does not work for everyone. Moreover, the Netherlands did not achieve a boost in mode share in the 80s by exaggerating the dangers of cycling (in the lane).
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Old 05-07-13, 11:20 AM
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Originally Posted by spare_wheel View Post
I am glad that your cautious style of cycling works for you. But what works for *you* does not work for everyone. Moreover, the Netherlands did not achieve a boost in mode share in the 80s by exaggerating the dangers of cycling (in the lane).

Yeah, you're doing that internet thing where you assume I was commanding people to be like me. Don't be that guy.

Also, as I stated I take the lane when I need to, I am not "exaggerating the dangers of cycling in the lane," as you say.
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Old 05-07-13, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by lostarchitect View Post
Yeah, you're doing that internet thing where you assume I was commanding people to be like me. Don't be that guy.
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Old 05-07-13, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by lostarchitect View Post
That's my LBS, Red Lantern Bicycles. Great people there. I'm glad they offered their space for the class, hopefully some people got something out of it. Really, riding a bike here is not all that bad. I have never had anything thrown at me and only a few times has someone shouted something. Drivers are generally respectful and know you'll be there.

That said, good route choice is an important thing I do to stay safe, and most people don't even think about it. I almost never ride on multi-lane high traffic roads. I stick to the (generally very nice) bike lanes when I can--it's usually only a block or so out of the way, I take the lane when I need to, and I have very few issues because of this. And of course, I try to be alert and vigilant.
I know you're Brooklyn, and my experience was Manhattan, but the one thing I noticed about riding in NYC is that the peds are utterly insane. I agree with everything you wrote about the drivers, and I haven't had issues with other cyclists, but I did see a streak of pedestrian aggression that bordered on outright suicidal.

I do think everyone should ride exactly like me - SLOW!
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Old 05-07-13, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by KonAaron Snake View Post
I know you're Brooklyn, and my experience was Manhattan, but the one thing I noticed about riding in NYC is that the peds are utterly insane. I agree with everything you wrote about the drivers, and I haven't had issues with other cyclists, but I did see a streak of pedestrian aggression that bordered on outright suicidal.

I do think everyone should ride exactly like me - SLOW!
Yep, I ride in Manhattan every day, too, and the peds are... Well... They don't look, let's say that. I have noticed that in the last year or so they do seem to be getting better, at least in the downtown Manhattan and Brooklyn areas I ride in. Maybe it's that there are more cyclists on the road. Maybe the city's awareness campaigns and increased bike lanes are doing it, I dunno. But it does seem to be slowly getting better--to me, anyway.
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Old 05-07-13, 11:51 AM
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I think when you ride it every day, you're in tune with changes...I'm sure you're right.
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Old 05-07-13, 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted by lostarchitect View Post
Yeah, you're doing that internet thing where you assume I was commanding people to be like me.
This is fine:

...route choice is an important thing I do to stay safe
but then you had to generalize it to others:

and most people don't even think about it.
just sayin'
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Old 05-07-13, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by spare_wheel View Post
but then you had to generalize it to others:

just sayin'
Please.
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Old 05-07-13, 12:18 PM
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Originally Posted by lostarchitect View Post
That's my LBS, Red Lantern Bicycles. Great people there. I'm glad they offered their space for the class, hopefully some people got something out of it. Really, riding a bike here is not all that bad. I have never had anything thrown at me and only a few times has someone shouted something. Drivers are generally respectful and know you'll be there.

That said, good route choice is an important thing I do to stay safe, and most people don't even think about it. I almost never ride on multi-lane high traffic roads. I stick to the (generally very nice) bike lanes when I can--it's usually only a block or so out of the way, I take the lane when I need to, and I have very few issues because of this. And of course, I try to be alert and vigilant.

Wondered whether you've ever take any of the Bike NY classes, or had anything to do with that group. The 5/8 CitiBike street skills class seems to be full, however many people that is. Bike NY has an interesting arrangement for attendance of their classes. People wanting to attend have to present their credit card number to register, but the classes seem to be free...unless registrants don't show up, cancel within a week of class date, and so on, in which case their card will be charged $50.

The NYtimes article was short, but good. More details about procedures for riding in traffic would have been helpful, but I think the tone of the piece is likely to help get people in the mood to attend a class, or seminar about biking.

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Old 05-07-13, 12:23 PM
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There are so many little things and lessons you pick up as a city commuter...

Learn where the car washes are and be extra careful around them...slippery roads combined with a lot of exit/entrance traffic.
Avoid any rental truck...the drivers don't have a sense of their vehicle or where it is on the road.
Avoid (if possible) auto mechanic locations because they typically have a large amount of debris near them where towed hulks leave their entrails = POPPED TIRES!
Which roads the drunks use at night to avoid LEOs
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Old 05-07-13, 12:24 PM
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Ped's are also a problem in Boston at times. I've seen people step right off the curb into the path of a bicyclist riding in a bikepath with the right of way and the rider is easily zipping along at 20mph. Hey it's only a bike, it won't hurt if they slam into you at 20. Cambridge is the absolute worst for Ped's ignoring the bike lanes.

I wish NY drivers were as courteous outside of their own state. I've seen/experienced them behaving like assbags on the road. While commuting through Providence last summer, I almost got creamed by a guy who blew through a yield sign and into the lane I was cruising down. I had a couple of other experiences on that commute with NY registered vehicles showing no respect or courteous to the bike lanes.
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Old 05-07-13, 12:26 PM
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Everyone complains about NY drivers, but I think they're the best on Earth. They're typically very aware of their surroundings and defensive. I've consistently had the most problems with drivers in the South and in Mass. Boston driving partners confuse the heck out of me.
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Old 05-07-13, 05:25 PM
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Originally Posted by lostarchitect
...That said, good route choice is an important thing I do to stay safe, and most people don't even think about it. I almost never ride on multi-lane high traffic roads. I stick to the (generally very nice) bike lanes when I can--it's usually only a block or so out of the way, I take the lane when I need to, and I have very few issues because of this. And of course, I try to be alert and vigilant.
Totally agree. My ride is uptown west side Manhattan and over to Brooklyn and back daily. I share your sentiments.
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Old 05-07-13, 09:45 PM
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"If a taxi’s window is down, listen for the sound of a receipt being printed. It means a door is about to open."

If you can hear the sound of a receipt being printed, you are already passing the door. I had a close call today when a passenger suddenly opened the door as I was about to pass by.
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Old 05-07-13, 10:11 PM
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Originally Posted by KonAaron Snake View Post
Everyone complains about NY drivers, but I think they're the best on Earth. They're typically very aware of their surroundings and defensive. I've consistently had the most problems with drivers in the South and in Mass. Boston driving partners confuse the heck out of me.
Perhaps so. In the states that I have resided in, if you ever had a pulse, you have passed your exam for a drivers license. Apparently, this isn't the case in NY. From the article:
Though her neighborhood is not included in the earliest collection of bike share stations, Ms. Sutherland said she planned to take up cycling both because “the transit system in general is just disgusting” and because she failed two drivers’ tests last year.
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Old 05-13-13, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by B. Carfree View Post
Perhaps so. In the states that I have resided in, if you ever had a pulse, you have passed your exam for a drivers license. Apparently, this isn't the case in NY. From the article:
Generally because most can't pass the parallel parking test and depending on location the test is given in the streets complete with unrelenting pedestrians, jaywalkers and very fairly intersections and not a parking lot like some suburbs.
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Old 05-13-13, 12:51 PM
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Do they also discuss the special case of what to do when riding through certain neighborhoods and being confronted by groups of special people who feel they own the neighborhood and the PUBLIC streets?

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Old 05-13-13, 04:21 PM
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Originally Posted by genec View Post
Do they also discuss the special case of what to do when riding through certain neighborhoods and being confronted by groups of special people who feel they own the neighborhood and the PUBLIC streets?
"Certain neighborhoods with special people"? Why whomever do you mean, Mr. Genec? What should be discussed, your prejudices? Sounds to me that YOU have some issues.

What are are YOU extrapolating from an isolated YouTube video where one individual besides the bicyclist, acted like a jerk?
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Old 05-13-13, 04:50 PM
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
"Certain neighborhoods with special people"? Why whomever do you mean, Mr. Genec? What should be discussed, your prejudices? Sounds to me that YOU have some issues.

What are are YOU extrapolating from an isolated YouTube video where one individual besides the bicyclist, acted like a jerk?
Better go back and watch the video so you can see all the buddies crowding around... hardly "one individual." Also what gives them the right to claim a PUBLIC street? BTW no prejudice here... I don't care who it is that attempts to stop a cyclist while claiming a PUBLIC street; they are wrong. (police doing their assigned duty not withstanding)

But since this seems to be a NYC specific problem... I was just wondering if NYC had a specific solution.
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Old 05-13-13, 05:39 PM
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Aaron, those are good tips for things to watch out for. I don't think I ever thought of them.

You and lostarchitect are both right about New York. Pedestrians here are insane. Now that I haven't lived in the city for a long time, I cross the street like a pansy, compared with everyone else. They play a game of chicken with the drivers. Crazy. But I don't know what can be done about it. It's deeply ingrained into the culture of New York. Giuliani tried to get the police to issue tickets to pedestrians who broke the pedestrian laws, and it didn't go very far. The pedestrians were unhappy, and even the police were.

It's true that cycling in New York isn't as bad as you would think, and it's because drivers expect to see cyclists. Things can get bad when you ride on roads where the motorists are unaccustomed to encountering cyclists.

The cyclist in that video should have let the driver go. He is not blameless. The driver was mistaken about the law, but it's better not to let it escalate into a big confrontation.
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Old 05-13-13, 06:21 PM
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Originally Posted by noglider View Post
Aaron, those are good tips for things to watch out for. I don't think I ever thought of them.

You and lostarchitect are both right about New York. Pedestrians here are insane. Now that I haven't lived in the city for a long time, I cross the street like a pansy, compared with everyone else. They play a game of chicken with the drivers. Crazy. But I don't know what can be done about it. It's deeply ingrained into the culture of New York. Giuliani tried to get the police to issue tickets to pedestrians who broke the pedestrian laws, and it didn't go very far. The pedestrians were unhappy, and even the police were.

It's true that cycling in New York isn't as bad as you would think, and it's because drivers expect to see cyclists. Things can get bad when you ride on roads where the motorists are unaccustomed to encountering cyclists.

The cyclist in that video should have let the driver go. He is not blameless. The driver was mistaken about the law, but it's better not to let it escalate into a big confrontation.
I tend to agree with your conclusion... I have never gotten the upper hand when confronting a motorist, no matter how wrong they were. And certainly escalating an issue with someone driving a 2500+ pound battering ram is not the best idea. One thing cyclists can do is make sudden turns out of traffic or go between cars to avoid a motorist, and in this case that would probably have been prudent.

The idea however that some "special group" can control a public street is just irritating. A gated community I understand... but a public street... no way. I can understand the cyclist's frustration... but not the action... his response is just not a safe thing to do. (passing on the right)

While the driver's response was wrong, I do admire that there really was no outright violence in the act, however wrong their notion of owning the street. Passive resistance.
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Old 05-13-13, 06:45 PM
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I stopped watching the video at about 3:20. I couldn't bear it any more, and I knew it was going to get worse. Don't even tell me what happened, because I can imagine.

And for the record, I'm Jewish, though not anything like Orthodox, as the driver in the video is.
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Old 05-13-13, 07:38 PM
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I'm also Jewish, and have a pretty strong aversion to the Hasids. They don't consider me Jewish, except for purposes of conversion, and I don't consider them sane. They're zealots.

My father grew up near them and they'd throw stones at cars that drove on "their" streets during the Sabbath. I guess throwing a stone isn't work
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