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Escaped Two Right-Hooks In One Day (VIDEO)

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Escaped Two Right-Hooks In One Day (VIDEO)

Old 07-10-13, 06:53 PM
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
Be sure to post of any experiences you (or anybody else) has with getting court papers served by this method.
Oregon citizens have the legal right to issue traffic citations.

https://bikeportland.org/2008/02/27/c...o-contest-6788
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Old 07-10-13, 06:56 PM
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Originally Posted by jerseyJim
So many vehicles pass going straight near intersections that it is easy to let the one that turns into you get you.

I don't use a blinking front light. I wonder if you are better off with a steady on front light. Missing turn signals because of the blinkie seems like a problem. I am curious. What do other blinkie users think? Is this a major issue when using a front blinkie?
IMHO a steady on front light in the daytime, if it's really bright enough to be seen, could easily be mistaken for sunlight glare off of a shiny surface. Better for that bright light to be flashing during the daytime.
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Old 07-10-13, 07:03 PM
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By coincidence, I experienced a potential right-hook situation this afternoon. A van passed me with its right signal on with the intent of turning right into a driveway about 20ft in front of us. However, the driver then stopped, let me pass through and then made the turn. I waved a thank you to him.
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Old 07-10-13, 07:08 PM
  #104  
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Originally Posted by JoeyBike
The SUV should have merged right onto the bike lane, then turned instead of effectively turning right from the left lane across my lane.

Giving a turn signal in no way gives you permission to cut someone off. The driver is required to make their move without causing another road user to make drastic maneuvers.
This concept is similar to bike=vehicle where bike lane=road lane. It is illegal for a vehicle to do that if the bike lane was a road lane and you were a car, it should be illegal when the lane is a bike lane.
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Old 07-10-13, 07:35 PM
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Originally Posted by alan s
This happens to me all the time, and 95% of my commute is on MUPs. I assume cars don't see me, which is usually the case. The other day, a woman pulled out of a parking garage and was staring at her iphone as she pulled into traffic. I had to swerve to avoid her, and she kind of glanced at me like it was no big deal, which to her it wasn't, I guess. Close enough I could have knocked on her window.
When a driver gets close enough that I can knock on their car, I do knock on their car (provided it's safe to do so).
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Old 07-10-13, 08:23 PM
  #106  
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Originally Posted by Zephri
One of the reasons as a driver and a cyclist I have a great hatred for red turn signals, quite frankly they should all be standardized yellow which is far far easier to make out if they are on.
This has also bugged me for years. Completely agree.
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Old 07-10-13, 08:25 PM
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Originally Posted by JoeyBike

And all this "passing on the right" jazz. The bike lane is MY lane.....
Joey, regardless if it's YOUR lane or not, you should have enough experience to see that when approaching a situation like the second incident, passing on the right, an approaching intersection, that you can be right hooked at any time (even with the dark sunglasses and dim turn signals). I watched one of your videos where you forced your way past a motorist pulling into traffic almost a block ahead of you because it was YOUR lane, and at times, I tend to think you are your own worst enemy.

Last edited by dynodonn; 07-10-13 at 08:28 PM.
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Old 07-10-13, 08:37 PM
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The duplicate thread in Commuting was merged with this one.
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Old 07-10-13, 09:01 PM
  #109  
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Originally Posted by dynodonn
I watched one of your videos where you forced your way past a motorist pulling into traffic almost a block ahead of you because it was YOUR lane, and at times, I tend to think you are your own worst enemy.
I had very little problems with cars cutting in front of me until I started using designated bike lanes which, by the way, are a very new traffic feature in New Orleans. Motorists and cyclists are both at the bottom of a learning curve. Seems some folks from all over are not real clear on the rules based on what I have read in this thread.

Part of the problem was the fact that I caught a GREEN light under the bridge where the video began. Had the light been red I could have crossed the intersection alone and had the entire roadway to myself for a mile. Traffic may have never caught up with me. I absolutely HATE cars overtaking me and do everything I can to keep that from happening when possible. Bike lanes seem to be making me complacent and inattentive, out of position and lazy - a real sitting duck for right-hooks. I find myself waiting for more lights to turn green because I have a designated place to stand still while waiting for the light to change. I fear that my experiment with traffic law compliance is nearing the end for me.

Last edited by JoeyBike; 07-10-13 at 09:05 PM.
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Old 07-10-13, 09:06 PM
  #110  
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Originally Posted by CbadRider
The duplicate thread in Commuting was merged with this one.
Good idea. One stop shopping.
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Old 07-10-13, 09:30 PM
  #111  
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
Be sure to post of any experiences you (or anybody else) has with getting court papers served by this method.
Bikeforums will be the first to know
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Old 07-10-13, 09:35 PM
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Originally Posted by jrickards
By coincidence, I experienced a potential right-hook situation this afternoon. A van passed me with its right signal on with the intent of turning right into a driveway about 20ft in front of us. However, the driver then stopped, let me pass through and then made the turn. I waved a thank you to him.
Right hooks are a constant hazard on my regular commute. I've taken to calling out "don't turn right". Sometimes someone will shout back "I wasn't going to". Even so knowing how to take a hard right while hip checking a car is a necessary survival skill in beautiful downtown Mount Vernon.
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Old 07-10-13, 09:48 PM
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Originally Posted by JoeyBike
That's a good point. I am out there in traffic many hours every week, week after week. Things are bound to go wrong sooner or later - like every day. And in my mind i am ALWAYS at fault soon as I toss my leg over a bike and venture out to play with motor vehicles. Everything from the first turn of the pedals is my fault.

That being said, I did not see the turn signal on the second vehicle. The sun was coming in right over the top of the truck and EVERYTHING was flashing up ahead due to my flashing front light. The vid does not do that justice. What I thought was making me safer [500 watts of white light flashing] was actually fooling me. Even if my eyes saw those pathetic flashers my brain translated the flashing into "just my headlight".

And all this "passing on the right" jazz. The bike lane is MY lane. That vehicle made a left hand turn from the right hand lane across my lane. That is perfectly legal when all is clear - the bike lane becomes dashed near the intersection for that purpose but it is still THERE dashed or not which means, by law, that is MY lane if I am there. Giving a signal does not make it legal to turn.

Am I interpreting bike lane ethics incorrectly? Because if I am, bike lanes are just a hazard. Without that lane I would have been keeping up in the flow of traffic and easily passed the truck on the left at their turn.

Tell me more. You are the safety experts.
I hate to agree with JoeyBike on anything since I don't like him but he's right on this one.
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Old 07-10-13, 09:51 PM
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Originally Posted by FBinNY
...knowing how to take a hard right while hip checking a car is a necessary survival skill in beautiful downtown Mount Vernon.
I was happy just staying upright and out from under those big tires. With a wet road and 2 inches of rubber contact patch on the ground (700x23 @ 120 & 130 psi) I assumed hitting the brakes hard at 22mph would slide me right under the truck. My front tire is a Vredestein Tri-comp which the manufacturer touts as an all condition tire grippy even on wet roads. Been using them for years and this baby really came through for me. Not even a small skid front or rear. (Rear tire is a Continental Gator Hardshell for better puncture protection than my front tire). Shout out to my Campy Chorus brakes too!
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Old 07-10-13, 10:05 PM
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Originally Posted by JoeyBike
I had very little problems with cars cutting in front of me until I started using designated bike lanes which, by the way, are a very new traffic feature in New Orleans. Motorists and cyclists are both at the bottom of a learning curve. Seems some folks from all over are not real clear on the rules based on what I have read in this thread.

Then don't use the bike lane, and ride out in the traffic lane, and if you do wish to use the bike lane, be more attentive and slower when passing vehicles on the right, even with your big blaster strobe light flashing away.
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Old 07-10-13, 10:10 PM
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If I were driving my car, then I'd call what the minivan did, cutting me off and making an ill advised turn in front of me. I'll venture to say that if Joey were in a car, that minivan would never have pulled that maneuver.

As for the truck, blinking lights + looking into the sun made for a bad mix. If Joey had noticed the turn signal, then the incident would never have happened. I can't fault the driver for signaling his turn and then following thru.

Most importantly, I'm glad Joey rode away from both incidents without being harmed.
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Old 07-10-13, 10:27 PM
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I am sort of 50/50 about this, for several reasons.

1. While it doesn't justify what the drivers' did, he was still able to recover, without a major hassle.

2. On part of my ride today, I was passed by a 'beefcake' in an SUV. While seemingly close at first when I was making a right-turn. He acknowledged me and let me go first. While at the same time, I later saw a very attractive woman pass me within inches of my left leg, and at a high rate of speed.

3. Then, while in the right-most 'straight' lane(left of the right-turn lane), when a pickup truck hauling a commercial trailer got behind me and laid on his horn. He laid on his horn for a long block, before he gave up trying to intimidate me and got in the right-turn lane to make a right turn at the intersection.

I watched the video several times, and the only motorist I encountered, that was in any way close to what the OP experienced, was the woman who passed me at a high rate of speed.
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Old 07-10-13, 10:47 PM
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Originally Posted by genec
No, the driver was in the wrong... they passed the cyclist while knowing they were about to make a turn up ahead... The motorist should have merged behind the cyclist in destination positioning manner, rather than speed ahead and then attempt the turn.

Oh I will admit that Joey had warning... but the motorist KNEW they were going to turn (as indicated by the signal) and yet tried to "outrun" the cyclist.
Absolutely not. This is the exact same situation as if both were in cars. There is absolutely nothing illegal with car A overtaking car B safely. Then, with plenty of warning, making a right turn. Car B, being now behind Car A needs to use the brakes.

I absolutely disagree that the big, ugly jacked up truck was in the wrong. The truck passed legally, indicated the turn in plenty of time to make a safe right hand turn. The cyclist messed up.


And all this "passing on the right" jazz. The bike lane is MY lane. That vehicle made a left hand turn from the right hand lane across my lane. That is perfectly legal when all is clear - the bike lane becomes dashed near the intersection for that purpose but it is still THERE dashed or not which means, by law, that is MY lane if I am there. Giving a signal does not make it legal to turn.
The state(s) I'm familiar with allow the car to cross over the bike lane to make a right hand turn, whether that turn be into a driveway, intersection, what have you. The rule is that the lane has to be clear. I this case, the car did indeed merge over the bike lane perfectly safely - the lane was clear when the merge was made.

In other words, in a case of a right turn, the bike lane is sort of like any other traffic lane. Car A is in the left lane wants to turn right. Car A passes Car B and merges over with a safe distance, properly signals a right turn, and turns right. Car B does not "own" that lane - neither does the bicyclist. Car B - and the cyclist - must use yield to car A ahead of them as Car A makes that right turn. There's nothing in the laws that I'm familiar with that says Car B - or the cyclist - doesn't have to use their brakes just because they're in the lane behind a right turner.

Bicyclists on the road need to understand they don't own the road. They need to yield, use their brakes, be delayed, etc. just like cars.

Last edited by Camilo; 07-10-13 at 10:57 PM.
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Old 07-10-13, 10:56 PM
  #119  
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Originally Posted by spare_wheel
Oregon citizens have the legal right to issue traffic citations.

https://bikeportland.org/2008/02/27/c...o-contest-6788
Yes, sure they can, nothing to it, eh?
Anything more recent than one case, initiated by a lawyer 5 years ago? Or perhaps no cyclist in Oregon has felt the need to do this in the last 5 years.
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Old 07-10-13, 11:04 PM
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Originally Posted by agent pombero
Bikeforums will be the first to know
Thanks. Good luck.
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Old 07-10-13, 11:05 PM
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
Yes, sure they can, nothing to it, eh?
Anything more recent than one case, initiated by a lawyer 5 years ago? Or perhaps no cyclist in Oregon has felt the need to do this in the last 5 years.
they are more afraid of us than we of them. not joking.
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Old 07-10-13, 11:12 PM
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Originally Posted by spare_wheel
they are more afraid of us than we of them. not joking.
You are not joking about what and who is/are "they," "us," "we," and "them"?
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Old 07-11-13, 04:43 AM
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Originally Posted by FBinNY
I disagree, the SUV had clearly passed you, and signaled the turn. At the time of the right hook, you were passing on the right in the blind spot.

There are many right hooks when the car partly passes then turns right immediately. But when a cyclist filters up on the right at an intersection (in the blind spot) it's up to him to note if the vehicle is signaling a turn, or even making an unsignaled turn. This kind of thing is all too common, and cyclist filtering up need to be aware.

(note, in most states passing on the right is illegal).
I agree
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Old 07-11-13, 05:33 AM
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The first one was pretty obvious and you stayed out of that one well. Good avoidance on the second one once you realized what was going on. You can't always read minds, though I've found that you get pretty good at it when riding.
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Old 07-11-13, 05:53 AM
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I find that most motorists suck at estimating the speed of cyclists. The SUV probably thought they had gotten far enough ahead and probably don't encounter too many cyclists exceeding 20 mph.

I routinely get passed doing 25-28 mph on some of the busier stretches of my commute just so people can slam on their brakes at the next stop sign. I really don't think (in general) that they thought I was moving that fast and they just assume they need to pass me.

And no, I can't maintain that pace the whole time. A more normal cruising speed for me is 19 mph.

EDIT: This is in a 25 mph zone

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