andrelam

I noticed this as well. I was back in Holland this Summer on vacation with my family (wife, daughter, my parents, and my sister with her kids as well) to visit the cousins, aunts and uncles that we left behind when we moved to the states. Today it is considered appropriate for (little) kids to wear helmets. Teens pretty much won't wear helmets, but that is the same here in the USA. I have a cousin who rides daily and always wears a helmet. This is unusual by Dutch standards. He has always ridden much further than the average Dutch cyclists (his commutes have generally been 10 to 20 miles). He and his 14 year old son also joined us at a family get together by riding their bikes 45km from their house to my aunt's house. That is also considered unusual by Dutch standards. My cousin always wears his helmet, but does not make his son wear a helmet. When looking at my cousins' bike I also noticed that unlike most Dutch riders his handlebars were exactly level with his seat. Most Dutch have the handlebars raised a few inches. Next time I visit Holland I need to go riding with the two of them... my kind of cyclist.

When I went for a ride on a Sunday morning along some fantastic paths through the North Holland Dunes Nature Preserve I noted that there were three main groups of riders.
1. The folks that were out to get from point a to point B... frequently with a bag of groceries on their handle bars. These folks NEVER wear helmets, and generally ride slow to medium speed (8 to 12 mph)
2. The folks that are out for a leasurely Sunday stroll. These people also NEVER wear helmets. Most appeared to rude slowly mostly around 8 to 10 mph.
3. The club riders. There were lots of small groups (mostly 2 to 5 riders). These riders were on road bikes wearing their kit, moving at a good pace (medium to fast). I don't remember the exact percentage, but most wore helmets. I was able to keep up with a few groups. I did get some funny looks as I was riding a standard 7 speed bike and hanging with the club riders. I have no idea of the exact speed as I had no computer on the bike.

As far as bike paths go. I found riding in Holland to be very relaxing. This was in sharp contrast to driving... the drivers are pretty crazy. The heavy traffic density makes drivers aggressive and they take all kinds of chances in their car. Strangly this does NOT reflect on cycling. With have clearly separate facilities from both cars and pedestrians you could just ride. In small towns the outside 5 feet of the roads were red and clearly designated for bikes. There was one over sized lane left in the middle. Cars just had to be patient at times to get around bikes. As aggressive as they are towards other cars, they tended to be very descent to cyclists on the road. It should be mentioned that in Holland cars are always deemed at fault if they hit a cyclist or pedestrian (even if the cyclists or pedestrian went through a red light). It was a great pleasure cycling there.

Happy riding,
André

chriswnw

Are there many fixies/trackbikes in Copenhagen? Or are they all utility bikes?

dougmc

Well, maybe.

If you work out the math of a head just dropping, disconnected from a body, if it drops 5.5 feet (the average height is a little higher than that, but that's from the top of the head, and it'll stop accelerating when the bottom of the head hits) it's only about 10 mph. (The formula is sqrt(2 * d * g).) Is 5.5 feet the correct distance if falling off a bike? Well, not if it's a tall bike, but for a standard bike, it's probably pretty close.

(Also note that if your head is falling without a body attached, you've got a bigger problem than it hitting at 10 or 22 or whatever mph.)

If you assume that your neck and body are still connected, and that your body stays rigid, and your feet don't leave the ground, then you hit the common physics demonstration that shows that objects can be accelerated at faster than g by gravity. (Here's an example of that.) I haven't worked out the final speed of the top of the board starting at 90 degrees, but I doubt it's larger than sqrt(2) times the sqrt(2 * d * g) formula I gave earlier -- so maybe 14 mph?

Now, your body isn't a rigid stick. Particularly, your legs and torso would likely bend, and they'd hit the ground before your head, slowing your head somewhat. (This is the falling chimney problem.) And the odds are good that your torso or butt or something would hit before your head (because they tend to stick out more), even if nothing bent -- further lowering the speed. And most importantly, unless you're comatose, people don't fall like rag-dolls -- you'd try to catch yourself (which tends to hurt your wrists, granted.) In fact, your head probably wouldn't touch at all, thanks to your reflexes. (Though a helmet might make this worse, making your head larger which would give you less time to catch yourself before it hits. But on the other hand, if it hits first, it'll probably provide some protection.)

In short? That 22 mph figure is bunk. But the idea that you can hurt yourself on a bike that's not even moving certainly isn't!

botto 

you got funny looks because you jumped on their ride, without asking, riding a bike with questionable brakes.

crhilton

I'm not sure if anyone has pointed this out or not but Denmark has an interesting way of promoting bicycling: They make owning a car very expensive. Their car tax roughly triples the purchase price of a new car.

I'd be interested to know if some of the bike riders are resentful of the fact that they can only afford to ride. That might explain some of the unmaintained biked.

billew

Would you please source that comment about Danish car taxes?

hrt4me

Thanks for the interesting discussions; I'm potentially going to Copenhagen for 6-7 months, starting in May or June 2009, and will definitely bring a bike.

Hahob

Lots and lots of them!
The messenger/possenger scene(or whatever they call it) has grown alot the last five years!

But the bikes get stolen in a breathtaking speed....

Hahob

It is true that taxes triple the cost of a car(that runs on gasoline). But this has nothing to do with promoting bikes or public transportation. Public transportation is privately owned. The amazing fact is that the cost of taking the train is so high, that you would probably save money if you get a cheap car!

Most ppl can afford a car anyway, but it has tradionally not been sougth after.
But it is changing now, lots of young ppl are buying and pimping cars now. Paradoxically mostly young guys under education! They make one third or half of the normal living wage!

Theres a 25% tax on food too, Im sure this is not a way to promote eating less!

All of this is of course my own interpretation of things....

andrelam

I was keeping at least 10 to 15 feet distance between the riders in front of me. I would never ride close to someone without knowing them. Anyways, I agree that roller brakes are a bit scarry. They are nice in the rain as they are uneffected by water, but you shure have to squeeze the cr@p out of them to stop in a hurry. The v-brakes on my hybrid at "home" do an infinitely better job of stopping the bike with confidence. What is so strange for me riding back in Europe is how busy the bike paths are. There was a steady stream of cyclists going both directions on the paths. Even though were were "out in the country"

Happy riding,
André

crhilton

Yes, making things more expensive discourages there use. It sounds like public transit is overpriced and cars are heavily taxed. I don't see how that wouldn't promote getting around by bike. You still need to get around. All that's left is walking and biking (maybe scooters aren't taxed like cars, so maybe that too).

I doubt they do it to promote biking. They likely do it to discourage driving.

crhilton

https://www.skovgaard.org/europe/denmark.htm
https://en.allexperts.com/q/Denmark-2190/car-import.htm

I wish I could find better links but I think you can if you dig around a little bit. The second guy makes the claim that they keep the car prices reasonable by selling the cars to Denmark at low prices: Which makes the car tax sound really smart actually.

yoder

https://www.copenhagencyclechic.com/
https://www.copenhagenize.com/

botto 

fortunately not at this time of the year.

BarracksSi

Falling safely takes practice. A badly-performed fall negates your entire post.

dougmc

Well, if by `entire post' you meant only the part about people not falling like rigid sticks or rag dolls, maybe. But that was only part of one paragraph, not my entire post. And really, even people falling poorly don't fall like rag dolls or rigid sticks. Unless they're really really really drunk (rag doll.) Or dead, and rigor mortis has set in (rigid stick.)

And even you do have a rag doll or a rigid stick, that fall still won't break the laws of physics and accelerate your head to 22 mph to kiss the pavement. Unless you're falling off a tall bike or something similarly tall, of course. Or are freakishly tall, but I'm not sure anybody is tall enough ...

But of course you can still get hurt.

njkayaker

It appears that many people (not all of them), with these kinds of comments, want to imply that wearing helmets has no real value. It might mean that; it might not mean that.

In some countries, more people smoke (per capital). Does that mean smoking is OK?

genec

Rather then the "no value" issue, it could mean that helmets, in the right environment, are simply not needed.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that if one is mixing cars and bikes directly on the same street, even a simple "fender bender" can be a serious thing to the unprotected cyclist. But if cyclists and motorists are not sharing the same facilities, such simple fender benders are not possible.

Hawaiiwrench

I'm half Danish and traveled all over the country, lived just outside of Odense for a while..

Lights are the law. Cars are very expensive to own and operate.
Your first drivers license is around $3000 US, sales tax on the car runs around 100% (if i remember correctly)and gas is around 3-4x what i pay, in Hawaii.

..then again i did not pay for the time i went to the hospital.

Most importantly of course, is that when you are on a bike in Denmark on a clear summer day, riding on a designated bikeway (that has intersections and solar-charged lighting for night!) on your way to go feed the ducks or enjoy a meal in a little cafe, nothing could be further from your mind!

charmed

A couple summers ago my husband and I ended up in Copehagen, and yes, we had to try biking. We rented the standard bike, just like you see in pictures. We headed around the city, and then took a path down the coast to have a snack at a lovely restaurant on a small town harbor. The bike facilities were amazing. And when I came home I had to get a bike like they ride there. I ended up with a Breezer, which even has the ring lock.