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Nevada Law Allowing Bikes (And Other Vehicles) To Go Through Red Light

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Nevada Law Allowing Bikes (And Other Vehicles) To Go Through Red Light

Old 09-25-13, 08:57 AM
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Nevada Law Allowing Bikes (And Other Vehicles) To Go Through Red Light

It basically lets bicycles and other designated vehicles to go through a red light if said red light does not change while trying to turn left.

Thoughts?

https://www.autoevolution.com/news/ne...ght-67569.html

https://www.8newsnow.com/story/235218...to-turn-on-red

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Old 09-25-13, 09:02 AM
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Excellent. Only bicycles, mopeds, and motorcycles. These kinds of vehicles have the line of sight advantage that motorists lack.

how this article describes bill 117 is exactly how I ride every day. Crossing against the red light is no more dangerous or unsafe as crossing when green.
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Old 09-25-13, 09:13 AM
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I have a couple of lights that I stop, then proceed through every day.
If I waited for green, depending on time of day, I would sit there for hours on end.

I've actually started leaving earlier in the morning in order to catch these while they are on the overnight setting, blinking caution in all directions. They go to sensored at 6AM. I've watched the cross street light go yellow, then back to green (instead of red) while I was sitting waiting. It's extremely frustrating.
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Old 09-25-13, 09:41 AM
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text of the bill here: https://www.bikinglasvegas.com/cyclin...nd-red-lights/

If the light isn't changing, how can I wait through 2 cycles?
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Old 09-25-13, 10:14 AM
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Originally Posted by spivonious
text of the bill here: https://www.bikinglasvegas.com/cyclin...nd-red-lights/

If the light isn't changing, how can I wait through 2 cycles?
Great question.

I can tell when some of the lights cycle here in a couple ways. One, there's an audible sound for pedestrians that changes and associated with that, you can see the walk/don't walk signs start to flash, then stop - without changing.
Another, as I mentioned earlier. If you are sitting at red; You can see the green on the cross street go yellow, then switch right back to green.
This isn't true at all lights, just those in the downtown area here. Some, simply hold until the sensors pick up something - if they don't, the light doesn't change in any way. I've learned where those are and just treat them as a stop/caution.
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Old 09-25-13, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by spivonious
If the light isn't changing, how can I wait through 2 cycles?
The *other* lights in the intersection change, but if a sensor doesn't see anybody waiting (as can happen with smaller vehicles) they will sometimes skip not making the light for that lane green until the sensor does pick up somebody.
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Old 09-25-13, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by dougmc
The *other* lights in the intersection change, but if a sensor doesn't see anybody waiting (as can happen with smaller vehicles) they will sometimes skip not making the light for that lane green until the sensor does pick up somebody.
State legislators are not the brightest bulbs out there.

The idea works fine if only the left turn depends on sensors. At a T intersection or one where one street is much higher volume than the other the cross street may never get a green unless a car trips the sensor.

Not to mention that more and more intersections are getting set as sensor only, no green for anyone without a trigger. The better designers put in an occasional full cycle to catch things just in case a sensor breaks or a vehicle fails to trigger. But off hours that could be the only cycle and waiting for 2 cycles could take 10 minutes or more.
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Old 09-25-13, 11:37 AM
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The 2 cycles simply means for left-turn arrow traffic lights, so you just wait out the whole intersection changing over twice and then do a left on green essentially when your lanes have the green for straight ahead and it is clear to proceed for your left turn.
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Old 09-25-13, 11:51 AM
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Makes sense. I've had to do this many a time while on bike or motorcycle.
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Old 09-25-13, 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by spivonious
If the light isn't changing, how can I wait through 2 cycles?
Or why should you wait two cycles? Why isn't one enough?
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Old 09-25-13, 01:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Velo Vol
Or why should you wait two cycles? Why isn't one enough?
Uuh, to collect more revenue?
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Old 09-25-13, 01:29 PM
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This is a great law...for 1965. But, since it's 2013, perhaps there are better approaches. It looks like a way to allow lousy infrastructure (insensitive sensors) to remain the norm. I'd much rather see a law mandating that traffic engineering departments adjust their sensors to detect bicycles and replace the ones that cannot be so adjusted. They should already be replacing the in-pavement ones with cameras, and those can be programmed to give varying length green lights depending on whether the waiting vehicle is a car or bike.

Let's remember that placing the purpose of placing traffic lights on sensors is to minimize wait times. Why should cyclists have to wait several minutes to cross a clear intersection? They can keep their crumbs.
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Old 09-25-13, 01:30 PM
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There are intersections here where if there's no cross traffic, the light never changes. I would have to wait an hour for two cars to come by and trigger the light for straight through two different times.
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Old 09-25-13, 02:26 PM
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Originally Posted by B. Carfree
This is a great law...for 1965. But, since it's 2013, perhaps there are better approaches. It looks like a way to allow lousy infrastructure (insensitive sensors) to remain the norm. I'd much rather see a law mandating that traffic engineering departments adjust their sensors to detect bicycles and replace the ones that cannot be so adjusted. They should already be replacing the in-pavement ones with cameras, and those can be programmed to give varying length green lights depending on whether the waiting vehicle is a car or bike.

Let's remember that placing the purpose of placing traffic lights on sensors is to minimize wait times. Why should cyclists have to wait several minutes to cross a clear intersection? They can keep their crumbs.
How much is it going to cost and who is willing to pay for it?
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Old 09-25-13, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by tagaproject6
How much is it going to cost and who is willing to pay for it?
bike lanes down the street from my house have bicycle sensors... they are way cool, and the even work as intended.
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Old 09-25-13, 03:18 PM
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I have yet to encounter a light sensor here in New Hampshire that responds to bicycles, even on streets that have marked bike lanes. You'd think that if they went to the trouble to paint a bike lane, someone would have bothered to adjust the sensors. I don't know what the law says about it here, but I do try to wait a couple of cycles before going through. And if possible I try to make sure there aren't any witnesses around. Not because I'm worried about getting caught, but because I don't want them spending the next year *****ing to anyone who will listen about how those damn bikers are always running red lights.
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Old 09-25-13, 04:02 PM
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Originally Posted by tagaproject6
How much is it going to cost and who is willing to pay for it?
We're talking about sending out one electrician to adjust the sensor with a bike on the detector. It's not rocket surgery and the electrician is likely already on salary to maintain the signals. So, it's almost free and the cost is already being borne by our local property taxes. It's a matter of priorities.
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Old 09-25-13, 04:48 PM
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Originally Posted by B. Carfree
We're talking about sending out one electrician to adjust the sensor with a bike on the detector. It's not rocket surgery and the electrician is likely already on salary to maintain the signals. So, it's almost free and the cost is already being borne by our local property taxes. It's a matter of priorities.
Very nice...so, how long have you been working with the local government and how they work the budget and spending allocations?
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Old 09-25-13, 04:48 PM
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Originally Posted by spivonious
text of the bill here: https://www.bikinglasvegas.com/cyclin...nd-red-lights/

If the light isn't changing, how can I wait through 2 cycles?
Not that tough to figure out, player; it's not referring to the entire light assembly for all lanes, all directions. If you're in the LEFT TURN LANE, and it doesn't trip for you through two cycles, you can run it. A lot of states already have this law, it's just not advertised. (A "cycle" is a green/yellow/red for each direction of traffic flow.)
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Old 09-26-13, 08:28 AM
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Broken light sensor laws should apply to all vehicles on the road. There was one light I know of that stayed broken for months that I had to deal with many times. The time I figured out the sensor was totally broke for sure was when I was hauling a 4-to-5 cord load of still partially green firewood in a heavy 6-wheel 3-axle truck and not even that maneuvered around the pavement a little more forward and a little more back and a little more to the right and a little more to the left would trip the sensor on that light. So I had to do what I did on my bike and get out of the truck and walk over and push the pedestrian crossing button to get the light to cycle. On a bike which is how I usually went through that light I would pull up to the light and put the bike on its kick stand in the center of the lane and run over and push the button and then run back and jump on the bike and go when the light changed. I always wondered why car drivers seemed to be happy to see me do that at that light rather then getting all upset with me leaving the bike on its kickstand in the lane in front of them, after the truck incident I realized why, they knew the light was broke too and were happy I was tripping it with the ped. crossing button for them too.

Long story short, a broken or inadequate sensor can potentially stop things up for everyone, not just cyclists. I have no problem with anyone driving or riding any road legal vehicle treating a broken or inadequate sensor light as a stop sign with a little extra caution and being sure to wait long enough to be sure it really is broken. Such laws are good laws, and I think they should just give an actual time amount, 30-seconds doesn't seem unreasonable to me, not too long or too short, and a lot better then saying "two light cycles" or some such other nonsense that defies logic itself. There are no cycles on a sensor light that the sensor is broken and it never changes.

Also, I wish they would put the ped. crossing push buttons right on the edge of the road rather then way back off the side on the opposite side of the pole from the street. That would make it possible in many cases to stay in the right tire track and then just lean over and reach to push it to make the light cycle by pushing the ped. crossing button. Either that or just put in another short pole with another button on it, probably a good way to retro-fit some existing sensors buried under the road surface that won't detect lighter weight vehicles at a lot lower cost then tearing up the road and changing the sensors out.

They should also clearly state in the law that the purpose of the law is to allow people to deal with lights with broken or inadequate sensors. Otherwise some people will try to use it to justify blowing a red light ever time they get caught doing so.

Last edited by turbo1889; 09-26-13 at 08:42 AM.
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Old 09-26-13, 08:40 AM
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I'm not going to wait two cycles to turn on a red light that doesn't detect me, especially in seeing a motorist in the opposite left turn lane arrive after me, and then turn before me.
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Old 09-26-13, 10:03 AM
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UMMMMM? Great law......BUT........If the signal has to cycle twice,wouldn't it be faster to ride to the curb and cross the street twice to make a left?....

Gee,I wonder how much time and tax dollars it took to figure this out....

To the powers that be.......Please engage brain BEFORE opening mouth.

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Old 09-27-13, 02:15 PM
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The so-called "Idaho Stop Law" has been on the books here for many years. It basically allows cyclists to treat a red light like stop sign, and a stop sign like a yield sign, as long as the cyclist does not violate any other vehicle operator's right of way. Rumor has it that this statute was originally passed so the state didn't have to shell out money to make demand-actuated traffic control devices sensitive to bicycles. I've witnessed some very close calls when cyclists invoke their rights under this statute, and I agree that a better solution would be to make signals sensitive to smaller vehicles so we can all follow the same rule book. I exercise this right with discretion, and usually wait if traffic is present or approaching that will turn the signal, especially at busy intersections at busy times, where finding a gap is challenging or suicidal.

We've converted most of our buried induction loop detectors to optical sensors, with a slight improvement in sensitivity to bicycles, but most of them still don't "see" me, even though they clearly can be set up to do so. I consider this to be negligent and discriminatory on the part of the highway department.

Another dimension to this is that many motorists are ignorant of this statute: Oh, there goes another idiot cyclist who thinks they are above the law. Which causes them to lose respect and trust and degrades how we are treated on the road.

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Old 09-27-13, 04:44 PM
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Originally Posted by High Roller
I've witnessed some very close calls when cyclists invoke their rights under this statute
If a cyclist "invokes their rights" under the Idaho stop law and creates a very close call -- they broke the law, which means they didn't have that right to begin with.

That law allows them to treat a red light as a stop sign and a stop sign as a yield sign. If they did so and created a very close call -- they failed to yield to somebody they should have, which violates the law.

That said, people can misuse a red light or stop sign too and cause very close calls (or worse), so I'm not sure that removing this law would really be a big improvement. If people in Idaho get the idea they can just roll through stop signs without looking "because it's their right" -- they'll be dead soon enough.
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Old 09-28-13, 07:45 AM
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There's always the crosswalk button.

A lot of them now make noises (like a chirp) and many newer crosswalk lights I see here now have a countdown timer). In addtion to that I also see flashing lights near schools where speed is limited and other things during school hours (and you get nailed good for ignoring them). Since there are schools here every 1/2 to 3/4 miles in the main section of town) and a street was partially removed to build the new middle school (orphaning thru traffic and forcing going a block to the right or several blocks around as the Catholic Church and their parochial campus are next door and around the corner, all the way to Idaho Avenue, a major street)...the ciy and state police do pay a lot of attention during the morning and at dismissal time. The residences directly north of the campuses mean that lots of attention needs to be paid by anyone over there.
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