Problem With No Solution?
 

Today was trying to make a left turn off a main street into a side street and immediately turn right into the parking lot of a strip mall. Wandering in front of me was a person on a bike. I say wandering because the person was just going from lane to lane. I short beeped to let the person know I was there and stopped. The person then wandered around the parking lot nearly hitting several cars and causing confusion before going up on the sidewalk and going back the way the bike had come.

A week ago I was in a major city. It was night and I was walking on the sidewalk beside a 6 lane divided street with a median. An unlit, dark clothed cyclist came down the street, dodging traffic before jumping on the sidewalk and charging through the pedestrians. Shortly after another cyclist, similarly unlit and with dark clothing came bombing down the street, ran the red traffic signal and barely missed some pedestrians enroute down the street.

Another cyclist rode across the street in the crosswalk, between pedestrians who were doing their best to get out of the way.

Things like this are so common most people probably don't even realize there is another way to ride bikes. This kind of riding certainly does nothing to help relations with fellow humans and probably hurts.

Probably no solution short of a Bicycle Riders License. Even then given the Brown Eyeball way many people drive and lack of license enforcement that probably wouldn't help. Guess we'll just have to keep out heads on a swivel, be kind and considerate to others and hope the example catches on.

The solution to this problem isn't licensing cyclists, it's to improve the licensing of our motorists. Those folks on bikes aren't fleeing to the sidewalks because they like the sidewalks so much, it's because of their reasonable perception that the scofflaw motorists amongst us create a deadly danger on our roadways.

I am driven to chuckle when people exclaim with horror the dangers of these sidewalk riders. Tell me, how many people do they maim each year? How many do they kill? Compare those numbers to the tens of thousands of deaths and millions of injuries caused by motorists annually and you'll see why I just don't get my knickers all atwist over these folks.

I almost agree with B.C. There are jerks everywhere, difference is that a jerk on a bicycle is likely to cause relatively little damage, a jerk in a car can cause a lot of death and destruction. I disagree as to why some jerk cyclists ride on the sidewalk - I believe they do it because it suits their convenience has nothing to do with avoiding cars.

Absolutely.

Very faulty logic. That is like saying holding up a store but only stealing a little bit of money is better than if they stole a lot of money. Also, directly maybe, only maybe. Indirectly from people taking evasive action is another matter.

Personally seen people who have no motor vehicle conflicts jump on sidewalks just because that is the way they want to go.

Nobody is saying that it is ok to ride like this. Just that there are many other things more worth it to get all worked up about.

In your stealing analogy it is like walking into a Chipotle and put some of their hot sauce on your own sandwich without buying anything. It is not nice, but you wouldn't go to jail for it.

Quite a lot of cyclists use the sidewalk because they think it's the correct place to cycle and/or safer. This leads, predictably and empirically, to the typical behavior of sidewalk cyclists.

Since they typically move faster than any pedestrians present, they will be inclined to pass them.

Pedestrians often walk in the center but, because they see other pedestrians coming the other way, it's simple for them to move to the right. They don't see or hear overtaking cyclists which means cyclists will be inclined to weave around them rather than stop/slow to wait for them to move over.

Cyclists (in the US) don't generally use bells and the few that do tend to use them to late/close so that the pedestrians are surprised and move in unpredictable ways.

And sidewalks are typically narrow, making all this stuff worse.

Given all the complications and limitations of using the sidewalk, cyclists using them tend not to be riding very fast.

Most of these cyclists are riding to get somewhere. It's a small part if their normal lives, which means they are not inclined to do anything special to prepare for it, which means they are going to be in their normal clothes (dark clothing is common and normal) and not have/use special equipment like lights. And, as far as they can tell, they see just fine without lights (and might guess that others can see them just fine too).

The fact that they don't usually have any problems reinforces the behavior.

"Real" cyclists have so much experience riding in a very different way that they think their way of riding is the "normal" way.

Licensing is not a solution, for sure. I see (supposedly licensed) car drivers pull stupid and/or illegal stunts daily during my bike commute.

People keep saying this but it's obviously not the same thing.

Very, very few drivers drive as "erratically" as the cyclists the OP is concerned about. People also don't tend to drive cars amid other much-slower (and smaller) traffic. (They really wouldn't be able to (for very long).)

What is going on is more like what you often see with motorcyclists in stop-and-go traffic or on highways with low traffic (where smaller/faster motorcyclists can weave through other traffic). It's a very similar dynamic. Car drivers also have the same basic response to motorcyclists riding in those ways as "real" cyclists have with to sidewalk cyclists.

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Anyway, it's nice to have one activity that does involve licensing!

Since when is it required to have a license or insurance to drive a car? :rolleyes: There are no solutions to erratic drivers, bicyclists, boat operators.....because you can't fix stupid.

As I see it, the real problem with bad driving, sidewalk cycling, and uninsured/unlicensed driving is that the lack of consequence drives the behavior. Face it, the real chance of any of these activities of having an adverse outcome, either an accident or being caught and ticketed is so low as to make it well worth the culprits risk taking behavior. Since we choose not to have a rigid police state, these types will not get caught,and if caught, there is little that is done to punish this behavior. US already has the highest rate of prison incarceration in the developed world, and many of these scofflaws have no real financial resources to seize or to pay for damages they may cause.

So whats the solution? I don't think there really is one. Short of society changing their belief that its ok to bend/break any rule that suits them, things will not change.

Speaking of only my own behavior, I would mostly agree with this quote.
In addition, I think the lack of reasonable infrastructure ads to the problem.

I took inventory of the couple of spots where I use strip mall parking lots or a sidewalk instead of the street. In both cases, the street doesn't have any bike facilities, speed differential is high, with multiple lanes too narrow for sharing.
In both instances, I travel only a short distance and then make a left turn. If rode the street, it'd mean completely crossing a 5 lane (2 travel lanes plus turn lane) and/or a seven lane (3 each direction with a chicken lane in the middle). It's way less stress just to roll a block on a sidewalk or cut through parking lots.

Education and continuing awareness programs would likely help IMO. It would be best if it were pervasive so there is no question that everyone is aware of the correct/accepted behavior. That certainly doesn't guarantee they'll comply but it removes ignorance as a reason or excuse.

One possible solution is not to grossly exaggerate and hyperventilate over the menace and terror created among the civilian population by those "other cyclists" who are not perfect examples of Bicycling Correctness.

There is a very good solution... and it helps ALL road users... it is fairly simple, and it is done in several European countries...

Start at lower grades and teach the basics of bike use, and basic traffic and road signs. Move up into later grades and teach cycling in traffic, follow that with laws and ethics of motoring and finish with simulators and hands on driving classes in the high school years. Make this as much a part of the school curriculum as reading writing and arithmetic. Driving and road use IS a life long activity... why is it that we expect people to learn this in 40 hours or so and be good at it?

When I was going to high school, drivers ed was available... is that true where you live? Why not teach cycling too... both as an exercise activity and as a means of transportation... and have that education serve as a prerequisite for driving... then certainly drivers would know what it is like to bike on the roads.

This is a life long activity, why we don't teach it with the same vigor as other subjects is beyond me. 30,000 people dying each year in motor vehicle collisions tells me that this is a crisis level situation that needs to be addressed directly.

Licensing is an easy to way to require every adult cyclist to be trained in the rules of the road. I think many salmoners, ninjas, and sidewalk jumpers do so because they feel it's the best way to ride.

What about including cycling training in high school driver's education courses? Or guaranteeing cycling questions on the driver's test? You won't hit everyone, but I think it would do enough to make the erratic cyclist a tiny minority.

I don't think education would accomplish anything until the me, me, me mentality is purged from society. WILL NEVER HAPPEN.

Yesterday I was out for a 4 mile jog before 40 mile bike ride. No sidewalk or curb so grass and road meet. I am within 6" of grass facing traffic with some oncoming cars not even crossing centerline to give both of us some room. To make matters more interesting, there are some drivers who approach from the rear AND CROSS OVER the centerline as they pass me.

p.s.-when a driver moves over as they approach me I give a :thumb:, a :) and a nod of my head with the mouthing of THANK YOU.

My solution to observing these behaviors is gratitude that these dangerous cyclists are not driving large motor vehicles.

This. Driver's ed in this country is a JOKE, and Cycling ed is virtally non-existent- although the programs available are pretty good. However, for whatever reason, even Cycle Savvy is not available to teens and younger - which is when all those bad habits start.

I'd be happier if the advocacy groups pushed for education programs, even over facitities- I think it'd have a greater impact.

I agree that drivers ed is a joke and cycling ed is non existent... Now if cycling education took 2 semesters and driving education took at least 2 semesters and covered the ethics of driving, perhaps we might have "something" of a real solution. Currently drivers ed in CA is 40 hours.

I had a cycling course when I was in the 3rd grade at Stayton Grade School in Oregon. But I'm 50 now. I don't know if they still teach it.

As others have said, good luck; it's a mindset, and nothing short of catastrophic trauma will change it. A whole TON of people believe that bike riding has no rules whatsoever -- it used to bother me a little bit, as i felt that their erratic acts would 'convince' drivers they're right to try and chase me off the road...but it hasn't, and likely won't. So, as long as they don't steer into me or mine, it's a Darwin thing, AFAIC.

The problem you are describing here is called "morons."

You're right, there is no solution. Licensing included.

Bike safety taught in early years goes a long way.