Rowan

Nah... we've been there, done that. Hey, however it works out, welcome to the no-car world!

Roody

Correct. The point is that the simplest (i.e. cheapest) means of transportation is also the fastest. If you have to work 16 hours a month to pay for your car expense, that is 16 hours you could be cycling instead of working. In that time you could travel, say 300 miles on your bike, making the car a slower means of transportation than a bike. I wish I could explain it as well as Thoreau did. I have been too busy working (and cycling) to look up the quote.

cyclezealot

Chicagoans are of the same cloth...A friend's Dad lived up near Grand Rapids...When parking fee's became his second biggest monthly bill and Steve spent hours per day, finding a place to park the beast- the dad became totally ununderstanding, when Steve asked to please, keep his dad's graduation gift to him- in his dad's garage...200 miles away was close enough . You don't need no stinkin car in big cities...Only holds you back.

Brian

Oi! You got something against New Yorkers?

kwv

But then again he might charge you for how much it cost to bring you up?

lilHinault

I got around by bicycle/bus for the longest time, then became rich enough to afford a 50cc scooter in my early 20s lol! Rode motorcycles for several years and was one of those odd specimens who had a drivers license for a motorcycle but not a car! I finally got a car license at age 30, and I still get ***** on car ins. because they count it by years driving, and I'm still just barely in that first 12 years.

I drive a cheap-0 Saturn Ion, it's a car GM doesn't want to make but has to to meet fuel effeciency requirements, and they're always really happy to sell one. Payment are low, but counting in payments (which were less than the maintenence on my last wheels) insurance and gas even at 7000 miles a year which is below average, I'm almost up to $6000 a year, close to the AAA's figure of $7k a year for the avg. american owning a car.

I don't drive a huge SUV, my car's not a Corvette or a BMW (the last one was the BMW haha!) and I still don't pay the kind of ins. costs an early 20-something does, but that's a lot of expense! $7k a year??? That's what I was proud to make all year, gross, once. I could still live on $7k if I had to. Folks, owning a car is EXPENSIVE. Even an unassuming plasticmobile. You'll save a TON of money by not having one of the nasty things.

vincenzosi

SO here's the update.

My dad got the re-fi on his mortgage and he's gonna clear a lot of money on it. Instead of taking my car, he's buying a new one.

BUT...

And this is the great part...

He's giving me the difference between the trade-in value and payoff value on the loan for my car, which means, I will be car free within the next two months.

Life is indeed good!

Rowan

Ummm... this is complicated. Does that mean he is using your car to trade in and get the new one?

Ebbtide

What gives, this thread is old as what and you still have your car. Give it away and you wil be free today, or are you chicken?

vincenzosi

Ebbtide, I have almost $9,000 left of payments on it and I have to make sure those are taken care of to get rid of the car. It isn't that easy. Calm the F down.

Rowan: He's buying a new car. He's giving me the money to make up the difference between what I would get to sell the car and what it would take to pay it off so that I can be rid of it and not have to take a loan to get rid of it.

tulip

Good job. It looks like it's all going to work out! Can't you sell it for $10k? I don't know what cars go for, so perhaps not.

JessicaK

People who occasionally need a car might look into a car-sharing program (https://www.carsharing.net/where.html lists a bunch). I have no direct experience with them but it seems like a great idea and I see quite a few City Carshare vehicles around San Francisco, so it seems like the program works pretty well.

vincenzosi

Unfortunately, the book value on my car is only around $5,000, so I couldn't sell it for much more than that.

lilHinault

It's been calculated many times by different people, if you take the amount of time you work to pay for your car, considering all the expenses of owning/operating one, you come out the same as if you didn't own a car and WALKED everywhere. That's right, 5MPH.

Brian

Flawed logic. I paid about AU$11,000 for my current used car. That equates to about 7 or 8 Saturdays as a photographer in the states. A car is only a financial burden to those that cannot truly afford one. Even if I was able to ride my bike to work, I'd still own a car. When I move back to the states, I'll be buying two.

lilHinault

https://www.kenkifer.com/bikepages/autocost.htm

I can afford a car, most of us can, we just see an awful lot of money going to car ownership that could go towards something else like a house or savings. And, you don't have to spend an hour or two in the gym trying to counteract the sedentary lifestyle.

Brian

The page cannot be found

A lot of the people that have posted here seem to give the impression that they cannot really afford a car. Too many people spend beyond their means. Our tandem probably cost as much as our car, but I'm happy to spend more on my bikes than on my car. I just don't see car ownership as a burden, more of a necessary evil part of the time, a luxury other times, and in the case of past 4WDs, a big boy's toy.

lilHinault

https://www.kenkifer.com/bikepages/advocacy/autocost.htm
https://www.kenkifer.com/bikepages/advocacy/autocost.htm
https://www.kenkifer.com/bikepages/advocacy/autocost.htm

Hopefully one of them works!!

You are correct that in the US, "you are what you drive" - I saw this, I had an old slightly wrinkly Toyota minivan, which I thought was great - it was thrifty on gas, held a lot, etc. I eventually realized that all that carrying capacity resulted in my taking home huge and relatively worthless pieces of electronics junk, and it's handling and braking capabilities verged on the unsafe in the Mad Max traffic of Phoenix, which is where I was living at the time. I admired a friend who had this little Toyota MR2, managed to get plenty of stuff packed into it to take to computer swapmeets, and it looked fun. I got a BMW, and the reactions of people were startling - just weird reactions, like I'd inherited a ton of money or something, it seemed that Toyota minivan ='d poor, and BMW ='d rich. When in reality there was no change in finances, although there was of course a much greater flow of money going into the BMW.

Hey if you need a car, and a new shiny one to seem manly, more power to you - the natural assumption if one rides a bike in the US is poverty, or that one's lost one's license due to drunk driving or other criminal offenses. Even though the car I have now is far less flashy than a bimmer, it's fairly "respectable" and I expect to get some interesting reactions if I stop using it and show up on a bike everywhere.

lilHinault

I'll admit, where I live is pretty unusual - right in the middle of silicon valley, and another poster mentions, it's not that hard to get around without a car here. Up in the City, owning a car is like tying an anvil around your neck and going for a swim in the bay! Here, owning a car isn't any problem, plenty of parking etc., but it's also pretty bike-able, train-able, bus-able. It's kind of a case of either/or.

Since I run a small biz I can see having a small truck or van to use for carrying commercial loads, every once in a while you just have to carry 700 lbs of wire, you know? My dream would be to get an old postal truck/van, those are cool!

Brian

I lived in CA long enough to know how true that is. I confused the matter by owning a used Landcruiser for off road excursions, a Honda Civic for getting to work in Malibu (I miss those canyons) and a new RAV4 because I needed something civilized for taking out my chickies. I kept the RAV4 and 5 bikes in my garage.

KrisPistofferson

If they can't afford a car, don't you think it's wise to stick with a bicycle, instead of pouring already limited resources down a well. I really can't decide if your comments are offensive or not. I'm reading it as: "The only people who think looks don't matter are people too ugly to land a beautiful girlfriend." But I might've misread.

cyclezealot

I hail from Detroit ..Detroiters upbringing..Cars are status... How can that learned trait be lost..It is supposed to be an aculturated value that is ingrained upon birth..Not me..I pay no attention to what product lines exist...Think I was attracted to my JEtta because it is compact, reasonably fuel efficient, red and the bike rack was sold at cost by VW...
Cars not status to me..SUV's..'Suddenly Upside Down vehicle'..TUrn me off.
I will always have a car..But , normally biking to work would make me proud. cars just an option.. They consume unreasonable amounts of resources, pollute, make us lazy and therefor sick , and burden the earth at our landfills.

lilHinault

OK here's a good one, I had to have the BMW in the shop, ended up being in there 2 weeks, so I went to the rental car place next door, and looked at getting a rental, thought it was on the insurance's dime silly me (it kind of was and kind of wasn't....) and I saw that I could rent a New Beetle for something like $7 a day, I jumped on that..... so here I am driving this cutsie thing around, and for months afterward people were saying stuff like "Oh yeah you have that cool beetle" etc. Gawd. Given the choice between a 10 year old BMW or a new New Beetle, take the seasoned bimmer.

lilHinault

Hmm ..... I only put 7k mile a year on my Ion, and I just got out the calc just now and figured that comes to 20 miles a day, I actually did about that when I was bike only - much of it just fun riding, do the 10 miles to/from work and then another 10-20 blasting around.

I really think we're "early adopters" in this bike only thing, but watch gas hit $3 a gallon this summer .... are we Americans even allowed to remember that last summer there was a real spike in fuel prices and warnings of possible blackouts? I know we're not supposed to think about the past, the future... heck even think at all..... anyone remember? So I think it's reasonable to think that gas may well hit $3, then next summer maybe the spike will = $4

In any case, what you drive is a HUGE status thing in the US, but I like to think the new status symbol will be a serious cyclist's cardiovascular health and legs....

Brian

You've misread. If I wanted to offend you personally, there's plenty of ways to do it. But you've sided with me on too many other issues, so I certainly wouldn't offend a good ally.

This forum is about sharing viewpoints and opinions. I'm just noting that many people seem to feel their car is a financial burden. I always paid cash for mine, and have a perfect driving record, so insurance was cheap. I've basically used the same mechanic for repairs since we were in high school together, and used coupons from my ex-brother in law's lube shop for cheap oil changes. Owning a small fleet of cars in California was never a burden. I could have gone without a 4WD for playing off road, but it also hauled drywall, bricks, and tiles when I remodelled my home. I was single and making a very good living. There's also simply no way I could get my photo gear to a shoot or event without a car, or small SUV depending on the job. I would love to be able to ride my bike more places, but it's just not feasible for me. As I stated before, I lasted about 2 weeks without a car here in Australia. That has more to do with my distaste for public transport than the fact that my bikes were in shipping container on their way here.