Murder Machines: Why Cars Will Kill 30,000 Americans This Year
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I don't want to outlaw automobiles, but I would like to see some more accountability, as GodsBassist suggests. If you kill someone while driving, and you did something illegal or unlawful when you did it, you need to be held responsible. Cars killing ppl on the sidewalk, with no citations, let alone jail time. Unbelievable.
I'd also like to see the auto industry paying its own way. Beyond the direct and indirect oil subsidies, the outrageous Big 3 bailout, and the endless road-widening projects that occur in my neck of the woods, there ought to be some sort of tax levied on the CO2 output and the use of antifreeze, brake fluid, and other nasties that are associated with running an auto. For the record, I'd gladly pay that on my truck, and I'd be willing to pay an equitably scaled-down version for the #2 grease and chain lube I use on my bikes.
I'd also like to see the auto industry paying its own way. Beyond the direct and indirect oil subsidies, the outrageous Big 3 bailout, and the endless road-widening projects that occur in my neck of the woods, there ought to be some sort of tax levied on the CO2 output and the use of antifreeze, brake fluid, and other nasties that are associated with running an auto. For the record, I'd gladly pay that on my truck, and I'd be willing to pay an equitably scaled-down version for the #2 grease and chain lube I use on my bikes.
It's starting to be real money here. Are you sure you would be okay with motorists paying their own way without subsidies?
#27
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Also, to actually comment on the OP headline, DOT estimates that the total annual miles driven is in the neighborhood of 3,000,000,000,000 (Note thats 3 trillion), 30,000/3,000,000,000,000 = 1 death /100,000,000 miles driven.
Or
since there are about 2,500,000 deaths per year total in the US (Census data) 30,000/2,500,000 = .012 or 1.2 per cent of all deaths are due to traffic accidents.
thats why as a society we "accept 30000 deaths per year.
Or
since there are about 2,500,000 deaths per year total in the US (Census data) 30,000/2,500,000 = .012 or 1.2 per cent of all deaths are due to traffic accidents.
thats why as a society we "accept 30000 deaths per year.
Last edited by howsteepisit; 03-15-14 at 02:26 PM. Reason: correct the format of the math
#28
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Ever wonder why we accept this slaughter? It hasn't always been this way.
Murder Machines: Why Cars Will Kill 30,000 Americans This Year
Murder Machines: Why Cars Will Kill 30,000 Americans This Year
#29
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Yes, we should eliminate all subsidies of things that are paid out of public coffers and transfer all costs to the users. But thats really a topic for a political forum. Note that this includes all government functions, so if you house is on fire be ready to pay up to put out. Police, same.
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To be fair, I think that the costs resulting from injury and death should be paid by those who are actually responsible for the deaths/injuries. I've yet to kill or injure anyone through an accident on the roadway. But, other than that, yes. I would be ok with the idea of motorists paying their own way, although I see the potential risk for a lot of fallout here. Obviously, we should approach that goal incrementally, so as to avoid shocking the system by pulling that switch abruptly.
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The article states that the cost in fatalities per licensed driver is $500/yr. There are seventy to eighty times as many injured as killed by cars every year. Let's low-ball the cost of an injury to two percent as expensive as a death. That means the annual societal cost in deaths and injuries is over $25,000 per licensed driver. Are you ready to pay that? On top of that, the average cost of operating a motor vehicle is about $7000 (Of course no one ever admits that their costs even approach this number). Then there's the fact that the motorist is paying for less than half the road damage they cause.
It's starting to be real money here. Are you sure you would be okay with motorists paying their own way without subsidies?
It's starting to be real money here. Are you sure you would be okay with motorists paying their own way without subsidies?
More red herring misinformation
A large proportion of motor vehicle expense is discretionary as most people don't choose a vehicle strictly biased on cost.
[TABLE="align: center"]
[TR="bgcolor: #cccccc"]
[TD="width: 103"]
Item[/TD]
[TD="width: 101"]
Lowest 20% of Income Earners[/TD]
[TD="width: 101"]
Second 20% of Income Earners[/TD]
[TD="width: 101"]
Third 20% of Income Earners[/TD]
[TD="width: 101"]
Fourth 20% of Income Earners[/TD]
[TD="width: 84"]Highest 20% of Income Earners[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 103"]Total[/TD]
[TD="width: 101"]$2,856[/TD]
[TD="width: 101"]$5,058[/TD]
[TD="width: 101"]$7,310[/TD]
[TD="width: 101"]$9,571[/TD]
[TD="width: 84"]$15,198[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 103"]Purchase[/TD]
[TD="width: 101"]$987[/TD]
[TD="width: 101"]$1,954[/TD]
[TD="width: 101"]$2,940[/TD]
[TD="width: 101"]$3,774[/TD]
[TD="width: 84"]$7,442[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 103"]Gasoline/Oil[/TD]
[TD="width: 101"]$991[/TD]
[TD="width: 101"]$1,624[/TD]
[TD="width: 101"]$2,182[/TD]
[TD="width: 101"]$2,829[/TD]
[TD="width: 84"]$3,508[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 103"]Other[/TD]
[TD="width: 101"]$879[/TD]
[TD="width: 101"]$1,489[/TD]
[TD="width: 101"]$2,188[/TD]
[TD="width: 101"]$2,968[/TD]
[TD="width: 84"]$4,248[/TD]
[/TR]
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The cost of fatalities and injuries is also relatively meaningless, because its value is biased on the presumption those deaths and injuries wouldn't otherwise happen. Everybody will still die, and will most likely incur other medical expenses along the way.
Also don't forget even if you never drive a motor vehicle in your life, your very existence as you know it is still dependent on the the road network and its value goes far beyond individual motorists use.
Its not subsidizing the auto industry, its subsidizing civilization.
#32
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Don't forget the statistical value of human life is ultimately based on the amount that people are willing to accept to work in more hazardous occupations. Its usually used on those cost type social calculations,
#33
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Better title: Righteousness Reigns: Why Inflammatory Headlines on the Internet Will Save The World or At Least Make Me Feel Better About Myself, Now It's Time for a Snack.
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Last edited by Chicago Al; 03-15-14 at 04:04 PM.
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i think some ranting and rhetoric is justified by a practice that unnecessarily spews enormous amount of toxins, carcinogens, and teratogens into the atmosphere we all breathe, that kills ~1.2 million people each year (according to WHO estimates), and is a major contributor to the ongoing mass extinction associated with anthropogenic climate change.
Last edited by spare_wheel; 03-15-14 at 05:02 PM.
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The climate changes and non viable species go extinct, always have, always will, someday the sun will go nova, end of story.
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The climate changes and non viable species go extinct, always have, always will, someday the sun will go nova, end of story.
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How often do you get you goods directly from a semi truck? Just because our society has provided billions in subsidies to sociopathic companies that are unnecessarily poisoning and degrading our environment does not mean we should continue to do so.
Murder, torture, sex crimes, incest, massacres, and genocide have happened before too. Somehow I don't use this fact as an excuse to not give a f***.
Murder, torture, sex crimes, incest, massacres, and genocide have happened before too. Somehow I don't use this fact as an excuse to not give a f***.
Please don't confuse honesty and concern on a realistic level with not giving a F***. The difference is having productive, attainable goals Vs. Utopian fantasy.
Unless you're running around in a rabbit skin loincloth foraging nuts and berries you're the same as those you admonish, except for being more hypocritical.
Last edited by kickstart; 03-15-14 at 07:27 PM.
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Of course the ranters and ravers seem to have little use for rational thinking when spouting flaky rhetoric.
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Based strictly (and without regards to morality or ethics) on the economics of health care in the U.S. and the large financialburden placed on the system by elderly people in their declining years
*Are you accounting for the lost economic activity of decedents?
*Are you accounting for the direct and indirect costs of treating diseases associated with sedentary lifestyles and toxic pollution?
Basically what I am asking, ILTB, is do you have any evidence to support your statement?
Last edited by spare_wheel; 03-15-14 at 11:33 PM.
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#43
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All future health care costs are reduced to zero for fatalities to include the long term care of those with debilitating or terminal diseases, no matter what the age at time of death.
My "most likely" statement was about health costs, not economic activity.
Why should I, it is irrelevant to my statement?
Don't need anymore, but feel free to carry on with hyperbolic rhetoric about the Evil Motorist Empire. Stirring just that pot is obviously the purpose of this thread.
My "most likely" statement was about health costs, not economic activity.
Don't need anymore, but feel free to carry on with hyperbolic rhetoric about the Evil Motorist Empire. Stirring just that pot is obviously the purpose of this thread.
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Also a protip: When attempting to argue cost vs benefit it helps to at least pretend to have a modicum of objectivity.
but feel free to carry on with hyperbolic rhetoric about the Evil Motorist Empire.
*massive amounts of chronic disease caused by motor-vehicle pollution.
*ocean acidification.
*anthropogenic climate change.
*ongoing mass extinction.
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I have never seen a gun just randomly go off and kill someone nor has a car ever just jumped up and pummeled anyone to death. Cars don't murder people other people do. Don't blame the tool blame the operator. I could just as easily kill someone with my bicycle so this argument is rediculous.
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Probably the most foolish argument being made on this thread is about costs of motorized transportation from individuals who apparently wish to return transportation options for commerce and individuals back to 1900 or earlier. If that is not what is being advocated by the rhetorical ranters, then what is being advocated?
Last edited by I-Like-To-Bike; 03-16-14 at 05:11 PM.
#49
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Maybe the government backed motorized transport so the 30,000 murders could push their illuminati leaders into heaven!
Dat internet be evil I tell ya, and it's only important because the Internet lobby convinced everyone it is! Why in 1985 people didn't even know there was an internet! But thanks to lobbying and brainwashing, now everyone thinks the internet is super important!
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S&A has little to do with improving safety or being involved in promoting cycling, its sad how quickly common sense is thrown out for rhetoric. Like you, I see its best to avoid, lest they drag you down to their level.